Over 123% of Sevastopol residents vote to join Russia!

peck420

neo96
In real democracies the turn out never reaches 70% of the population.

Falkland Islands:

Voter turnout: 91.94% (of 'eligible' voters)
Electorate: 1,650
Population: 2,932

Percent in favour: 99.80%

Questions asked by the Western world: 0

edit on 17-3-2014 by peck420 because: (no reason given)

Good observation.

From the perspective of a Crimean you have a choice:
1. Stay within an artificial country which once was an industrial powerhouse and now is completely deindustrialized and broke after these brief 23 years of it's independence. You also historically never belonged to it in the first place.
2. Come back home to the big country where you belong and improve your life economically and morally.


A couple of points on the original post:

1. Sevastopol is the "pride of Russian sailors" (as the anthem of Sevastopol says) and also a Hero City. 90% there (including many Ukranians and Tatars) consider Russian as their native language.
2. Ukranian Pravda has nothing in common with Russian Pravda, except the name and amount of state propaganda. Almost all of Ukrainian MSM is overrun by nazis now. Numerous international obesrvers didn't find any inconsistencies of that scale during the election process.

Don't make a mistake, everyone who opposed the voting in the first place will be trying to downplay it's results.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I have to ask, did they buy the voting equipment from the US and have Jeb Bush program the sucker? I mean seriously, there was so much voting fraud in the US elections last time and the time before, I guess it's just normal now. Kind of a shame because it really does blow the old "Your vote means something" crap right out of the water.

Or is this more propaganda by a paid shill hired by the whitehouse?

Cheers - Dave

It was rigged, yeah...none of our business, none of the EU's business either, in fact, the U.S.-EU are no different from Russia. They're hypocrites and they know it. If they really cared about the Ukrainian people, they'd let this run its course and avoid involving NATO...we've all seen what happens in foreign countries they get involved in. The standard of living of the citizens of said country drop by entire quarters. The economy is destroyed. Civilization is broken. Infrastructure compromised. The people are rewarded with squalor and famine for putting their trust in NATO. No WMD's were found in Iraq. Libya now looks like Afghanistan and Detroit (lol). And Israel continues to usurp and starve Palestinian integrity (with NATO assistance, of course).

The West is no different, they are the biggest hypocritical psychopaths since Caligula, and if they make this an international problem by getting involved, and they don't say anything about the Falkland Isles, the Al-Qaeda ties to Syrian, Libyan and Russian rebels, the Fascist Svoboda party taking power in the Ukraine, and the NATO/US-backed Euromaidan riots and the abhorrent acts committed by the Ultranationalist-led street gangs, they've officially made complete fools of themselves. Don't forget Snowden. Don't forget Assange. Don't forget Manning. But most of all. Don't forget who the REAL enemy is.

The New Order of America.

reply to post by Xcathdra

There is not A lie, but many. Think WMD's in Iraq .You know I could list multipal ones like that but I will try and stick to some of the fresh ones on Ukraine . The first set or lies were on the peaceful protesters and the snipers .Now I know that when reporting on developing stories it's easy to get it wrong .But if new info, like the phone conversation mentioning the sniping comes to light, the phrase "stop the press" should be the standard and things looked at closer until they find the truth . One thing that we should not do is to keep the narrative going the way we are being led to imagine things .

The next episode that went down was the other phone conversation .Now this one is particular interesting ,because it has a bit of things that were going to happen in the future . You know the one ,the F the EU ..The news reports and there are many stating that Ukraine new elected leader . Now we know that that is not so because there was no election .But we also know about the phone call stating who was going to be Washington's person . These little half truths and the medias constant messages carrying the narrative could lead a person to believe that what has happened and the way it happened is normal despite all the confusion being reported .

Now the next reports was about the "Russian Invasion" While the media is spinning their yarn we find a side note that seems a bit confusing until we start to realize that Russia has had troupes in Ukraine for quite some time . Then we start to put this mixed narrative that the press keeps faithfully maintaining and never going back to when the first shout to stop the press should have been heard . So now we are at this point of counting ballots and doing math and asking questions from out side

Like Syria ,Ukraine had some peaceful protests .Like Ukraine Syria experienced snipers .They both had a elected leader that we can all agree they deserved better . They both share a questionable militant element opposing the government except now Ukraine has that element running the show or at least trying to ...Oh and they are both backed by Washington .Weather your Alciada or Neo-Nazi it don't matter . Because Washington is willing to use what ever means to achieve the end goals . Like Syria the Ukraine situation is not settled yet .It could go on as long as Syria has .It could produce much of the same carnage as Syria . The people of Ukraine are a smart people and they really don't need Russia or the West meddling in their affairs . But sadly" if you are not with us you are against us" is the mantra from Washington ....peace

reply to post by ~Lucidity

I think the world could use a big reset and give the lands to the original peoples .Over 600 first nations on Turtle Island would agree as well .

ZincMag
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Why should anyone believe any kind of professional posting you do, when you are on the record on ATS many times accusing Russia of attacking Georgia, when the facts are Georgia attacked minorities first under wink wink from Bush

You can't possibly think it is believable that a man of your informational prowess doesn't know facts on what happened in Georgia.

You want you credibility back.

Apologize for Georgia, admit the truth, and then lets talk Crimea

Cant attack the facts, you attack the poster...

Typical but not surprising.

Why should I apologize for stating the truth? Russia did to Ukraine what they did to Georgia. Maybe you should read the articles coming out of Russia, which are linked in this thread as well as others, talking about reestablishing the borders of the former Soviet Union.

As far as credibility I goes I enjoy it when you / others accuse me of something without providing any support to back it up. Just as Russia did when they invaded Georgia and just as Russia did when they invaded Ukraine. They were asked for their evidence to support their claims, and yet provided none.

bobs_uruncle
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I have to ask, did they buy the voting equipment from the US and have Jeb Bush program the sucker? I mean seriously, there was so much voting fraud in the US elections last time and the time before, I guess it's just normal now. Kind of a shame because it really does blow the old "Your vote means something" crap right out of the water.

Or is this more propaganda by a paid shill hired by the whitehouse?

Cheers - Dave

The voter fraud allegations were / are being investigated with a number of people who engaged in it serving prison time. The United States allowed UN observers during the 2012 elections.

As for ballots and voting, nothing along those lines occurred in Crimea. Kind of hard to vote your conscious when you have armed "secret" military personnel hovering over you at the voting booth.

Now, as with the poster above, do you have anything to contribute to this thread that in any way shape or form supports your claims or is this one of those attack the poster because you cant attack the facts?

Granted I can see how hard it is to challenge the facts when they come directly from Crimea / Russian sources but you should give it a go anyways.

Davian
It was rigged, yeah...none of our business, none of the EU's business either, in fact, the U.S.-EU are no different from Russia.

And its Russia's business how when Crimea is a part of Ukraine?

the2ofusr1
There is not A lie, but many. Think WMD's in Iraq .You know I could list multipal ones like that but I will try and stick to some of the fresh ones on Ukraine . The first set or lies were on the peaceful protesters and the snipers .Now I know that when reporting on developing stories it's easy to get it wrong .But if new info, like the phone conversation mentioning the sniping comes to light, the phrase "stop the press" should be the standard and things looked at closer until they find the truth . One thing that we should not do is to keep the narrative going the way we are being led to imagine things .

But that is exactly what you are trying to do, keep the narrative going albeit one sided. As an example the phone conversation with Estonia. Even though the Estonian government made a statement explaining the conversation was taken out of context, people still ignore it. The protests were peaceful to begin with, only turning violent when the former President opted to use berkut to put down the protests. The initial agreement between all parties was to put together an investigation to determine who was responsible.

To counter, why did Russia state media use images from the protests in Kiev while explaining they occurred in other cities?
Why did Putin / Yanukovich ignore the fact that the moment the agreement to end hostilities was signed, the reversion to the 2004 Constitution went into force immediately. That part of the agreement was specific as to when it went into force, which was immediately.
Putin stated that Yanukovych had given up power in one of his statements - Why do you and others ignore that?

the2ofusr1
The next episode that went down was the other phone conversation .Now this one is particular interesting ,because it has a bit of things that were going to happen in the future . You know the one ,the F the EU ..The news reports and there are many stating that Ukraine new elected leader . Now we know that that is not so because there was no election .But we also know about the phone call stating who was going to be Washington's person . These little half truths and the medias constant messages carrying the narrative could lead a person to believe that what has happened and the way it happened is normal despite all the confusion being reported .

Every nation has their "wishes" when it comes to foreign diplomacy, leadership, and who in that leadership would be easier to work with. To attempt to lay the blame solely at the US doorstep is naïve and ignores the fact Russia does the same thing. ALL nations do the same thing.

While the agreement called for elections, the 2004 reversion negated that part. Even Pravda was reporting on the 2010 elections, noting the change in how parliament is elected could resort in a coalition that is large enough to impeach Yanukovych. The allegations against Yanukovych are not new and have been a staple of Ukrainian politics shortly after he became President.

the2ofusr1
Now the next reports was about the "Russian Invasion" While the media is spinning their yarn we find a side note that seems a bit confusing until we start to realize that Russia has had troupes in Ukraine for quite some time . Then we start to put this mixed narrative that the press keeps faithfully maintaining and never going back to when the first shout to stop the press should have been heard . So now we are at this point of counting ballots and doing math and asking questions from out side

Putin like to base his position off of the Ukrainian constitution. he uses that in his argument when it supports his agenda, and then refuses to use it when it does not. Case in point - Crimea. Under the Ukrainian constitution, everything that occurred in Crimea was a violation of it.

The agreement Ukraine and Russia have in terms of military assets in Crimea was violated by Russia. While the agreement allows Russian military access, any move to put more military units into Crimea must be mutually agreed upon. In this case Russia never consulted with Ukraine. The types of military equipment was also restricted, which also was violated. Using Russian military units without insignias is a violation of UN Charter / Geneva Convention agreements.

the2ofusr1
Like Syria ,Ukraine had some peaceful protests .Like Ukraine Syria experienced snipers .They both had a elected leader that we can all agree they deserved better . They both share a questionable militant element opposing the government except now Ukraine has that element running the show or at least trying to ...Oh and they are both backed by Washington .Weather your Alciada or Neo-Nazi it don't matter . Because Washington is willing to use what ever means to achieve the end goals . Like Syria the Ukraine situation is not settled yet .It could go on as long as Syria has .It could produce much of the same carnage as Syria . The people of Ukraine are a smart people and they really don't need Russia or the West meddling in their affairs . But sadly" if you are not with us you are against us" is the mantra from Washington ....peace

Again you lecture that the west does not belong here or there, while at the same time you ignore the same actions by Russia. the government in Syria is a religious minority. Should Saudi Arabia be allowed to invade Syria in order to protect the religious minority, which is oppressed un Assad? Also, Russia should take its own advice and leave Chechnya, being its 95% Chechen and 2% Russian.

The major similarity between Assad and Yanukovych was the use of Police / Military to put down peaceful protests. They turned violent when the unarmed protestors started being shot and killed.

The back and forth is one of the main reasons I ask people to link back to their sources. Instead, they give a bs run around and engage in anything except for the topic. Like Russia, its not as simple as just making a claim with the expectation it will be accepted at face value and not questioned. When Russia shuts down all media that is not Russian / that is critical of Putin, what does that tell you?

If the support was any where near Putin's claims, nothing he did was needed or justified.

What I find disturbing is how people will attack another simply because they don't share the same views. In a democracy, its permissible to have different views / opinions / beliefs. When the forces in Crimea went after those who don't share their view, they became everything they claimed to be against. If my position is such a joke, then why do people constantly attack me while not providing anything to refute the information in my posts? There should be no problem finding facts to debunk my arguments if I am as wrong as people claim - yet none have been provided. Even the last few posts in this thread has people attacking me because they cant attack the facts.

Xcathdra

Davian
It was rigged, yeah...none of our business, none of the EU's business either, in fact, the U.S.-EU are no different from Russia.

And its Russia's business how when Crimea is a part of Ukraine?

the U.S.-EU are no different from Russia.

Thanks for reading my post. /=

I admit I haven't read the whole thread, but could it not just be that people from outlying rural areas voted in Sevastopol rather than in a separate voting catchment area, so their vote was counted amongst the Sevastapol total?

Or is that too simple an explanation?

Does anyone have a map of the polling areas?

Xcathdra

“At 20:00 in Crimea, 1,250,426 people voted,” Malyshev announced. “This result does not include Sevastopol. When Sevastopol is included, 1,724,563 people voted,” he said. Therefore, according to Crimean “authorities,” 474,137 people from Sevastopol voted in the “referendum.”

Are they stating that 474, 137 voted in Sevastopol, or that number people that live in Sevastopol voted?

There's an important distinction, surely? In fact, that conclusion could be fallacious, that 123% of Sevastopol voted? Saying 'therefore they're saying 474, 137 people from Sevastopol voted' isn't necessarily true.

474, 137 people might have used the Sevastopol voting station though.

Davian

Xcathdra

Davian
It was rigged, yeah...none of our business, none of the EU's business either, in fact, the U.S.-EU are no different from Russia.

And its Russia's business how when Crimea is a part of Ukraine?

the U.S.-EU are no different from Russia.

Thanks for reading my post. /=

Yup... however, did I take your post the wrong way?

I took it as stating the EU/US should but out but Russia can do whatever.

khimbar
I admit I haven't read the whole thread, but could it not just be that people from outlying rural areas voted in Sevastopol rather than in a separate voting catchment area, so their vote was counted amongst the Sevastapol total?

Or is that too simple an explanation?

Does anyone have a map of the polling areas?

Actually lets do one better.

I have looked and have been unable to locate it. Does anyone know what the law was in Crimea regarding voting / referendums? Is there a link to the new Crimean constitution?

Xcathdra

khimbar
I admit I haven't read the whole thread, but could it not just be that people from outlying rural areas voted in Sevastopol rather than in a separate voting catchment area, so their vote was counted amongst the Sevastapol total?

Or is that too simple an explanation?

Does anyone have a map of the polling areas?

Actually lets do one better.

I have looked and have been unable to locate it. Does anyone know what the law was in Crimea regarding voting / referendums? Is there a link to the new Crimean constitution?

I'm looking now but it seems to be not available anywhere. It could be the simplest explanation though, that people from outside the area voted there (since there wasn't time to set up polling booths everywhere) and are counted in the total?

Dagnamit, now I need a polling station map and poll breakdown.

author brazenly lying blogs.houstonpress.com... in Sevastopol was a referendum on the status of the city the number of ballots 340000

mangust69
author brazenly lying blogs.houstonpress.com... in Sevastopol was a referendum on the status of the city the number of ballots 340000

how does a picture of a news paper clipping support your claim?

reply to post by Xcathdra
he explicit or crypto representative nation whose god lie and the father of lies

mangust69
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

he explicit or crypto representative nation whose god lie and the father of lies

edit on 18/3/14 by mangust69 because: (no reason given)

Still does not answer my question. How does the picture you posted support your claims the author was lying?

An Observation - This is exactly what I am referring to when people make claims and cant support it. You claimed the author is a liar. Please support the claim with facts.

Crimea was not presented ukraine Europe or NATO, he was administratively reassigned within the USSR

Russian mathematics, oh well, we all new that Russia's pass rates where significantly lower standards



Russia invited every backwards MP and activist from the region to witness the rigging



Seen this before tho haven't we... And the go Russia crowd is deluding itself in thinking plans are not being drawn up to act