Canadian doctor makes anti-Obamacare senator look like a buffoon

macman
reply to post by peck420

 

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe they need to apply the full scientific method, instead of picking and choosing.
.
The services for medical treatment are there and can't be denied. The fact that people don't have "insurance" does not then mean they died.
They died because they took little to no action to treat any list of illness.

The uninsured are more likely to go without needed care than the insured.


Read More: ajph.aphapublications.org... earchHistoryKey=&

Again, the "uninsured" made the decision not to seek care.

Which is why, as a Brit, I love the NHS. The notion that anyone who cannot afford insurance but who finds himself sick is then unwilling to go to the doctor/hospital because they're afraid of the bill is a horrific one.

my issue is with service canada screwing up my id, and then me coming out of the bush where i was off grid, with my current accounts run down.
it is necessary because of all the Americans that were stealing our health care on our old ontario health care cards for me to have full id

so really its american health care thats messing me up in a round about way, not our health care system

DeadSeraph

BDBinc
reply to post by Willtell

 

Exposes senator as a buffoon.
To get a health system that works for all, first the current system ( an unaffordable insurance wet dream)or the medico industrial complex needs to be dismantled.

Why do people need health insurance?
They need medical care not bankster insurance.
To get medical care why increase the costs of health care it by involving insurance, isn't medical care is a human right?

edit on 14-3-2014 by BDBinc because: (no reason given)

Because of the way American laws work.
Edit to add:
I.

edit on 14-3-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Laws are not written in stone they obviously can be changed . Which lobbyists created laws for manditory insurance, insurance that ups the cost .
Having the insurance corporations increases the costs. You don't need an intermediary or middleman.
Suing docters ups the costs too and also distroys the dr patient relationship which is now laden with fear of being sued.
The lawyers also are middle men in this dysfunctional healthcare system that seems to be more about profits and middlemen than health. I suggest a fresh look at what increases costs and doesn't help health outcomes.
Have a new system that does not have for profit, loose the lawyers and insurance.
Just imagine the possibility of a not for profit healthcare system.

Well. We don't have a two tier system here but you can go to a private doctor here and pay all out for it can you not?
A quick google search confirms that yes, a canadian with more money can have a private doctor. If you want to pay for that then thats how it goes. I also have my own private insurance through work that i pay for, that covers my vision and a whole host of medications as well. I could have chose a more expensive plan but i didnt because i'm hardly ever sick.

As a canadian, yes there are some problems with it. (harper being the main one). But the government -should- offer a decent health care plan (like ours, not too amazing but not bad either depending on what you're sick with) that blankets everyone, and let the people who make more money get their own insurance if they so desire.

The main difference here is i think they want to change all our hospitals here into debt holes for the legions on the poverty line.

Keep in mind nearly half the american population is at or below the poverty line. Those people do deserve a standard in health care, especially if they cant afford it. My opinion. If you're worried about your taxes, look at the criminal federal reserve that saps a huge interest payment every year. We pay somewhere around 80 billion a year on our fraudulent national debt, how about america? (whats the feds interest on 17 trillion dollars) ? Enough to fully fund any health care plan, and then have some left over to invest back into education.

Heres an idea. Socialism (god forbid) for the NEEDS of humanity. Capitalism for the WANTS of humanity. Seems fair no?

JohnnyCanuck

macman
Again, the "uninsured" made the decision not to seek care.

Ya...could be they decided to pay for housing or feed their families instead. In a civilised society, that shouldn't have to be a choice.

It's been my experience with certain individuals on ATS that nothing will ever change their minds on the subject short of abject poverty. There is no way you can change their minds or get them to even meet you halfway, as they have had it drilled into their heads their whole lives that "socialism = bad" and anything they deem socialist in nature will set off mcarthyism's inner alarm bells. I'm not sure if this is wholly a product of indoctrination or privilege or a healthy dose of the two, but any time spent debating the subject is usually time wasted.

DeadSeraph

JohnnyCanuck

macman
Again, the "uninsured" made the decision not to seek care.

Ya...could be they decided to pay for housing or feed their families instead. In a civilised society, that shouldn't have to be a choice.

It's been my experience with certain individuals on ATS that nothing will ever change their minds on the subject short of abject poverty. There is no way you can change their minds or get them to even meet you halfway, as they have had it drilled into their heads their whole lives that "socialism = bad" and anything they deem socialist in nature will set off mcarthyism's inner alarm bells. I'm not sure if this is wholly a product of indoctrination or privilege or a healthy dose of the two, but any time spent debating the subject is usually time wasted.

Actually, much of the debate is based upon the fact that nothing in their constitution dictates that they should take care of one another, therefore any effort by government to do so is considered an infringement upon their liberties. And that is what constitutes the great divide between our attitudes.

That and a greater degree of institutionalised greed.

I live in Scotland where even the tories who want a US health system cannot get their dirty mitts in......whew. I'm voting independance (even though English) to preserve something that everyone (except the rich who like to queue jump using their wealth...DUH!) wants preserved.

Thank f for the NHS, thank you Aneurin Bevan.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


$32!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That won't even touch the cost of a prescription for cancer here. And you don't have to fight insurance companies and convince doctors that you can pay, and you get a chance to live! Did all the good people go to Canada?

Panic2k11
reply to post by Willtell

 

Ms. Pipes is clearly being a tool for someone, I think if we checked her finances we would find a conflict of interests somewhere. It is obvious for her participation what she is backing there (not really providing clarification but promoting the disinformation at every opportunity).

Surely you are not really that cynical. My sister is a doctor here in the states and was the first to say our system was beyond broken and that we needed health care reform. I can't believe people are still whining about this. Is it perfect no. Is it better than what we had before, yes. Why, because most people had nothing.

If you were one of lucky ones or wealthy ones that had health-care I am sure you did not mind the way things were.

The other thing I was so proud to say about my sister was she is honest. She said it is about greed and that doctors were paid too much in most cases and the whole system was about greed. Especially for the insurance companies who acted like they were god.

I am very proud of her. An honest doctor, go figure.

The Bot

It's like you Americans have it all a**-backwards.

You let the state feed the poor people who are spending all their money on health bills when the state should be handling the health of the individual and let the people have the money to feed themselves.

That phrase I hear occasionally, "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", does not include food vouchers, but it does say LIFE. So people should have the right to medical aid, as it's easier to get food than a doctor.

I'm a big definite supporter of the health care system of Canada. I don't have health care my self (Lives in FL), every human on this planet deserves free health care. Because it is the humane thing to do, Americans or the Government in particular need to quit thinking about filling up their banks. And start thinking about those people who die in our streets because we cannot supply them with a given necessity.

reply to post by Willtell


Is it just me or does Sen. Burr come accross as a smirking fool the way he asks his questions ? It's like he is just there because he has to be and not that he even cares about what he is doing.

He uses 42,000 people as if it is a huge number of people using the US system, it would be if there was only 100,000 people in Canada, but sadly he failed. The 42,000 people is only 0.12% of the population. If we use his logic, 99.88% must like the Canadian system because they never used the US system.

I'm not saying the Canadian system is perfect, the wait times for some tests/treatments can be ugly but I know that I will never have to sell my house just to see a doctor.

reply to post by juniperberry


I would have to agree. At the same time the one percent, many of which own those insurance companies, also want us to believe it would be bad to raise the minimum wage. Same old argument by the wealthy. That tired old argument has never been true. Never in history since the start of the minimum wage has adversely effected business to raise it.

It hurts the business owners wallet all of about as long as it takes them to make that money up as they always do. Despite the greed of republicans and the one percent, more and more recent experiments in this area show exactly the opposite happens. One business owner had a change of life and decided to raise his employees wages and help provide insurance and on sight child care. What he found was he no longer had employee turn over. He did not have the extra expense of retraining new workers.

Productivity skyrocketed, sick days went down. His employees were happy and it showed in every aspect of their lives. His profits out weighed all the money the owner invested in his employees and herego his company. This experiment is being repeated all over America. It is great to see doing the right thing actually made him more money than the greedy way.

It amazes me all the asinine arguments some people will use to defend the one percents position. It is ridiculous.

It also amazes me that America is the best country in the world and we can't even provide universal health care and that we say that word like it is a bad thing. It is bad why, because everyone is covered, because profits to doctors are controlled making healthcare affordable. Universal is bad because it rings of communism, they want us to believe everything about it is bad.

Of course like the congresswoman found out, it is not bad and it can work and work well. The only ones who don't like it are the ones who stand to lose money, the one percent, the doctors and the insurance companies. I think Obamacare did not go far enough. Should have a gotten rid of the insurance companies and made universal care the standard.

I know I will get flamed but sometimes you have to do what is right.

The Bot

I never had better healthcare in my life than when I lived in Canada. For 7 years. And I have a dead thyroid so I need to see a doctor regularly. Now I live in Finland and it's turning out to also be much better than American healthcare. I spend a lot less time in the waiting room, and everything EVERYTHING is cheaper. All the American hospitals I've been too (in Wisconsin and Illinois) are ridiculously opulent with wood finishing, plush carpets, and gloriously decorated atriums and gardens. That's what Americans get to go broke for and lose everything for when they get ill. So hospitals can look like hotels instead of the clean, sterile, functional buildings they were meant to be. And so your hospital administrators and owners can be Midas wealthy. But don't tell most Americans that. They'll just call you a communist because they're so ignorant they'll defend their slave masters to the death.

Xcathdra
reply to post by Unity_99

 

That's because our health system in the US is not national. Each state has its own regulations / requirements for the medical industry. To put it in perspective when Hurricane Katrina hit there was no real mechanism in place to bring in medical staff from surrounding states. The federal government essentially had to make them a federal extension in order to perform medically related actions in Louisiana.

Just because the Universal healthcare variant in Massachusetts works does not mean it will nation wide. Simply put the needs of the people in Mas.s are not the same as those in California are not the same as those in Puerto Rico etc etc.

I think our medical system is broke. I think we should look at all possibilities on how to fix it, including some sort of universal healthcare system. The morons in Washington DC first need to realize an all my way or nothing position does not work. When our reps in DC cant tell us how much milks costs in their home states, then they have no business leading the charge.

To be blunt, you do have a sort of private national health care...
The Rockefellers invented medicine in the USA, and they control all the drug producers of note....
They also invented the AMA...what can you expect from that?
....Robbery......"Your money or your life suckers!"

Nice beat down by the Canuck Doc, Iam saying this for the umpteenth times why we can't take a look at the Japanese system no one is queuing up for lines in over crowed waiting rms ,no one is putting po old guanny to death!! and it's totally affordable, one of the best thing that Romney did was the health care system set-up in Massachusetts, actually Obama care is really a Republican idea.

Yeah this^ is what we expect from a so called 1st world nation the best of the best..really??..we can't do better??.
Daily Show Proves America Does Not Have the ‘Best
Health Care System in the World’

You hear it a lot from opponents of the Affordable Care Act: America already has the “best health care system in the world.” On last night’s episode of The Daily Show, Aasif Mandvi set out to dispel this myth once and for all by visiting this country’s version of a “Third World country.”

Mandvi began by talking to NYSE Euronext Managing Director and occasional Fox Business guest Todd Wilemon, who argued that Obamacare will cause American health care to slip into “Third World status,” with less choice and longer lines for patients.

To see what that might be like, Mandvi traveled with Remote Area Medical’s Stan Brock to a place he thought might be Africa or South America, but turned out to be Knoxville, Tennessee. There, he learned that the United States is actually ranked 37th in the world when it comes to health care, right between Costa Rica and Slovenia. And he got a first hand look at why that is.

When Mandvi told Wilemon what he saw right here in America, he left the Obamacare opponent utterly speechless. All he could come up with was, “people do fall through the cracks.”

www.mediaite.com...

reply to post by Willtell


US health insurance is big business...it looms over everything.

And that's an understatement

reply to post by Willtell

Willtell ... don't you realize by now that Obamacare isn't 'free health care'?
Obamacare is a forced purchase of expensive and inadequate health INSURANCE.
And the bottom line .... its' unsustainable.

Lol...I love it when the main lady says that the main cause for Canadiens coming to America for healthcare is that simple tests like CTScan and CAT Scans have year long wait times.

Seriously? I think you can get any scan at Ikea now for $19.99 lol.

So if people are waiting for "scans" aren't they waiting for procedures by proxy as well? Yes. So I feel that the main lady, while cunning and seemingly smart, is distorting the truth.

She also claims that 40some thousand Americans die each year because they don't have health insurance. This is a bold faced LIE. The only reason those Americans die, is because they were too f'n lazy to go to their local Department of Social Services and get on Medicaid. Everyone in America could be covered right now if they chose to be...it's called "safety nets" and they're available to anyone at any time.

Canada isn't even a real country anyway. They're utterly useless and we shoulda taken them over centuries ago.

Grayarea

I'm not saying the Canadian system is perfect, the wait times for some tests/treatments can be ugly but I know that I will never have to sell my house just to see a doctor.

it is far from perfect. the question is can you survive the wait for help? i know even 10 years ago it took at least 6 months for someone suffering suicidal thoughts to be seen. just think a person suffering from depression waiting that long to see the "phsrink", do you not think that actually "feeds" into the depression? and what are the odds if they get really bad after feeling abandoned by the system, that they will go back in?

Self-harming is a symptom of deeper issues such as anxiety or depression that stem from complex causes, Gandy said. But what's clear is how climbing caseloads are affecting the health system, he said. "One of my greatest concerns is that as these services are stressed, greater numbers of mental health providers are now themselves showing wear and tear and are on the verge of burnout," said Gandy. He has practised in Ottawa for 20 years and says he has seen wait times grow to eight to 10 months for outpatient services. "This is an issue across the country."
The fallout includes crowded wait rooms and longer waiting lists for outpatient care, doctors say.

Katz said even though demand for adolescent mental heath services has increased, resources have not.

"If a child needs to be contained in a safe place within a hospital then we do that, but it's clearly overburdening our hospital beds," he said.

"There is definitely increased demand and that's creating a crisis in the system."

Read more: www.cp24.com...

8-10 months for outpatient (in other words those they don't believe to be in immediate danger), treatment, in the case of kids self harming themselves? seems a little long to me. wonder how many will die because the wait for help was so long they killed themselves, (accidentally or on purpose) before help was available? long wait times for help seems to be one of the core types of issues with "socialized" healthcare. at least pre-obama care in the US help was generally available, and for those that didn't have insurance, there seemed to be a lot of "free" or at least "cheaper" (sliding pay scale) help available. and with such high "user pay fees" and "deductibles" how many kids with obama care insurance won't be able to get the help they need because their parents can not afford the deductible for using it?