Bob Crow, Leader of the RMT Dies Suddenly

reply to post by stumason


Indeed and well put.
Should be a good thread that!

stumason
reply to post by SprocketUK

 

Yeah, on £145k a year and living in a Council House (at heavily discounted rents) while other more deserving people wait on the list and pay through the nose in Private rents... I can see why he got stick.

I can't say I agree with any of his politics, but 52 is too young to die and I wish no harm on anyone.

RIP Bob, fair play for standing up for what you believe.

Quite. The guy was a complete hypocrite who employed bully boy tactics and i couldn't stand him - but that said his family clearly loved him and the guy has just died.

I can't claim any sadness (except for his family) but i certainly am not happy he is dead now. And certainly no "ding dong the witch is dead" dancing - although i may reserve the right to do so when Scargill shuffles off this mortal coil.........

Flavian

stumason
reply to post by SprocketUK

 

Yeah, on £145k a year and living in a Council House (at heavily discounted rents) while other more deserving people wait on the list and pay through the nose in Private rents... I can see why he got stick.

I can't say I agree with any of his politics, but 52 is too young to die and I wish no harm on anyone.

RIP Bob, fair play for standing up for what you believe.

Quite. The guy was a complete hypocrite who employed bully boy tactics and i couldn't stand him - but that said his family clearly loved him and the guy has just died.

I can't claim any sadness (except for his family) but i certainly am not happy he is dead now. And certainly no "ding dong the witch is dead" dancing - although i may reserve the right to do so when Scargill shuffles off this mortal coil.........

Why treat this man any differently to how he treated Thatcher's family? He was a bully boy, like all marxists. He thought nothing of holding our capital city at ransom for even more outrageous wages. Why is it right that a tube driver sitting on his or her arse all day long gets paid double the wage of a nurse in a hospital, or a soldier in Afghanistan? Why is it right that we now have to pay quite literally stupid amounts of money to use the least efficient underground and overground rail networks in Europe?

reply to post by Nolimits


You make valid points, but if the Thatcher death singing got up your nose (as it did mine and as it should any sane, human being) then let's not sink to that level.



I was going to start a thread on Unionism in the UK on the back of this, but it seems you have just as much to say on the matter and strong feelings to boot, so if you wish, feel free and I'll join in.

stumason
reply to post by Nolimits

 

You make valid points, but if the Thatcher death singing got up your nose (as it did mine and as it should any sane, human being) then let's not sink to that level.

I was going to start a thread on Unionism in the UK on the back of this, but it seems you have just as much to say on the matter and strong feelings to boot, so if you wish, feel free and I'll join in.

I have no desire to start dancing on the mans grave, we leave that to the lefties. I am against anyone, especially a character as divisive as Crow receiving nothing but praise from all corners. I'm sure the victims of his strikes want to be heard too.

Unionism is not a bad thing per se, but it is when it is dominated by one political side. And it definitely is when it was used to destroy this countries manufacturing base.

reply to post by Nolimits


The proof of the pudding is in the eating. With Bob running things, RMT members were United, we stood as one and consequently got pretty decent deals compared to what we would have got without the power of the union.

Sure, you may not like us striking, but we like it even less. You don't get paid when you're on strike, you lose a share of the bonus and the bosses are always on your case in the lead up and aftermath.

Moan all you want about lefty bully boys, but NO ONE ELSE EVER STICKS UP FOR THE WORKING CLASS.

You may not like it, that's just how life is if you aren't lucky enough to land a cushy job in a bank or your dad's mate's chambers.

reply to post by Nolimits


First of all, EVERY working person, regardless of their position, or what sector they work in, should have the right to be paid enough per hour, and be given enough hours of work to do, to pay their way through life, have a hope in hell of owning their own home, have the ability to pay for heat, light and food, bring up a family, and not live in crap. You may argue against that position, but you will have not a leg to stand on if you do. So, the fact that there are people out there who you believe are more deserving of a wage increase that is not an insult, and a pay packet which is larger than their current wage, is rather the fault of the people who are paying them, and not any damned thing to do with Mr Bob Crow.

It was never in Bob Crows remit, to give a fig what other unions are up to at any given time. His job was to fight for the rights of the members of his union, to be paid fairly for their time, and their effort, and this he did with greater success than any other union leader of his generation. The fact that other union leaders have not been nearly as effective, is not his fault, or his responsibility. Also, it was not Mr Crows decision, to pass on the cost of wage increases for train drivers, to the customer. That choice was taken by the bosses of individual rail firms, whose employees were members of the RMT. The decent thing to do, would have been to have taken the cost out of company profits, and just accepted the loss. As it is, the rail companies have been uniformly greedy in these matters, and continue to be greedy today.

Furthermore, your blinkered and foolish stance on rail workers is astounding. I think it is rather the mark of a shallow thinker, to assume that all members of the RMT are sat on their behinds all day. The RMT has members from all throughout the transport industry, and particularly where rail travel and underground rail travel are concerned, that includes the people who do the heavy work of maintaining the infrastructure itself, not just the people who press the go and stop buttons to get people around town.

You really ought to know something about a subject, before deciding to form an opinion on it next time.

SprocketUK


The proof of the pudding is in the eating. With Bob running things, RMT members were United, we stood as one and consequently got pretty decent deals compared to what we would have got without the power of the union.

And modernisation that would have improved the service for it's users and reduced the cost was abandoned, net result: you got paid more for delivering less.

SprocketUK
Sure, you may not like us striking, but we like it even less. You don't get paid when you're on strike, you lose a share of the bonus and the bosses are always on your case in the lead up and aftermath.

Quite right too. Far from not just getting paid you should be getting the sack on the spot. There are hundreds of thousands of unemployed that would take your job for half your wage.

SprocketUK
Moan all you want about lefty bully boys, but NO ONE ELSE EVER STICKS UP FOR THE WORKING CLASS.

You don't deserve to call yourselves the working class when you down tools and stop working so frequently. Fortunately, your chokehold is coming to an end. Automatic train operation is the future, thus making it cheaper for the working classes to use the network, since we now have to pay so much to fund your hard day spent sitting on your arse pressing one single button, and opening job markets further away than what was once possible.

SprocketUK
You may not like it, that's just how life is if you aren't lucky enough to land a cushy job in a bank or your dad's mate's chambers.

Utter bollocks. Anyone has the chance to succeed, but therin lies the key weapon of Marxism. Delude the people into thinking that some kind of imaginary glass ceiling exists, and you can run riot with their support (and money). You don't want to do hard work though. You want the comfort of someone else fighting for you, and the knowledge that nobody but the muggy public will suffer from your actions.

You should have been dealt with as traitors in the '80s.

RIP Bob Crow, the man was a fighter and like him or loathe him, you'd want want him fighting your corner for sure.
Its sad for his family and sad for his supporters and sad for workers who look up to him.

reply to post by Nolimits

Why treat this man any differently to how he treated Thatcher's family?

Please tell me exactly how HE treated Thatcher's family?

He was a bully boy, like all marxists.

How was he a bully?
By trying to protect his members pay and conditions, that's what his members wanted him to do.
And he used legal means to do so.

And excuse me, I find it hard to listen to someone accusing Bob Crow of being a bully whilst lauding Margaret Thatcher.
No-one, not even her staunchest supporters, have ever denied that she used some of the worst bully boy tactics possible whilst she was in power.

He thought nothing of holding our capital city at ransom for even more outrageous wages.

He followed due legal procedure, that is not holding 'our capital city' to ransom it was withdrawing labour in a lawful and legal manner in an effort to protect his members pay and conditions.

Why is it right that a tube driver sitting on his or her arse all day long gets paid double the wage of a nurse in a hospital, or a soldier in Afghanistan?

Why is it that banksters etc get obscene amounts of money for doing nothing but gamble with all our lives and financial security?

When it comes to jobs that are overpaid tube drivers come way down the list.

In an age when pay and conditions for most ordinary, working people are being severely undermined I for one commend Bob Crow in trying to get a decent deal for his members.

Why is it right that we now have to pay quite literally stupid amounts of money to use the least efficient underground and overground rail networks in Europe?

Is this really a Londoner whinging and moaning about the lack of investment?
Do you honestly think that is going to get any sort of sympathy from anyone from outside the London / Home Counties region?
Have you got any idea of the degrees of hardship large parts of country are enduring at present?

I have no desire to start dancing on the mans grave,

And I commend you for that Sir.

..... we leave that to the lefties.

Yes, that wasn't their greatest moment.

I am against anyone, especially a character as divisive as Crow receiving nothing but praise from all corners.

Maybe it just goes to show just how much regard and respect people from all quarters had for him and that he was a man of conviction - quite a rarity in this day and age.
And I'd suggest that Boris Johnson et al knew far more about the man than your or I ever will.

I'm sure the victims of his strikes want to be heard too.

Victims is a bit of stretch to say the least isn't it.
Commuters etc had an inconvenience, that's it - no-one was seriously hurt, no-one died.
I think you should really try and put that in perspective.

Unionism is not a bad thing per se, but it is when it is dominated by one political side.

Trade Unionism has done the working man of this country far more good than it has done harm.

And it definitely is when it was used to destroy this countries manufacturing base.

Do you really believe that?
I'm not too sure how old you are but I lived through the Thatcher years. I'm under no illusions that certain elements in the Union movement contributed to the demise of manufacturing in this country, but the bulk of the responsibility lies in one direction.

Bob Crow was a decent man.
Like all men I have no doubts he had his faults, just like all of us.
But he tried to do what was right for his membership and he successfully maintained their conditions - I know for a fact many in his position would have buckled or would have faded in to the night with a nice fat brown packet tucked into their back pocket.

I for one will raise a glass in his name tonight.

Do you think there was any foul play involved?

Freeborn

Please tell me exactly how HE treated Thatcher's family?

Gladly, he openly told the world she can rot in hell. Now forgive me, but you would never go to anyone else's grieving family and tell them their loved one should rot in hell, but we're talking Bob Crow, a bullyboy marxist.

Freeborn
How was he a bully?
By trying to protect his members pay and conditions, that's what his members wanted him to do.
And he used legal means to do so.

By using the population of London as his pawn in his little blackmailing game. Do you have any idea of the effect that these strikes cause? Of course you don't.

Freeborn
And excuse me, I find it hard to listen to someone accusing Bob Crow of being a bully whilst lauding Margaret Thatcher.
No-one, not even her staunchest supporters, have ever denied that she used some of the worst bully boy tactics possible whilst she was in power.

She fought back in the same way she was fought against. Be grateful she didn't go the whole hog against you lot.

Freeborn
He followed due legal procedure, that is not holding 'our capital city' to ransom it was withdrawing labour in a lawful and legal manner in an effort to protect his members pay and conditions.

Tax avoidance is legal too. Doesn't make it right. Unless the left is responsible, of course.

Freeborn
Why is it that banksters etc get obscene amounts of money for doing nothing but gamble with all our lives and financial security?

When it comes to jobs that are overpaid tube drivers come way down the list.

We'll get back to the question of bankers shortly.

Freeborn
In an age when pay and conditions for most ordinary, working people are being severely undermined I for one commend Bob Crow in trying to get a decent deal for his members.

I'm sure you do, but once again you do not have to live with the effects. A decent deal at the cost of the service user. Typical leftism.

Freeborn
Is this really a Londoner whinging and moaning about the lack of investment?
Do you honestly think that is going to get any sort of sympathy from anyone from outside the London / Home Counties region?
Have you got any idea of the degrees of hardship large parts of country are enduring at present?

Oh look, your bitter northern side has come out to play. That's exactly the reason why the north is such a dire place. Too busy blaming the south. Newsflash, poverty in certain parts of London makes the Northern whinging counties look ideal, but your blinkered victim complex will never let you understand that, let alone travel to such places to see them for yourself.

You ask me if I have any idea of the hardship large parts of the country are enduring, I know you have NO idea of the hardship most, if not all the non central portions of London, and those areas which are not the most affluent areas of the home counties endure. It is pathetic, cringeworthy, and quite frankly enough to make me a regional separatist when I see the utter self serving, grandstanding hate coming from the North. Of course, you'll never admit Thatcher was a born and bred Northerner though.

Freeborn
Maybe it just goes to show just how much regard and respect people from all quarters had for him and that he was a man of conviction - quite a rarity in this day and age.
And I'd suggest that Boris Johnson et al knew far more about the man than your or I ever will.

Conviction. The only conviction he had was to make as much personal wealth as possible, with the employees as a fortunate after effect and to hell with the lives of the service users.

Freeborn
Victims is a bit of stretch to say the least isn't it.
Commuters etc had an inconvenience, that's it - no-one was seriously hurt, no-one died.
I think you should really try and put that in perspective.

Well, imagine you are in a rush to get to the hospital where a loved one is on the verge of death. But you can't get there, because all the buses are full, taxis are too expensive and the traffic is too heavy. All because the drivers think £50,000 a year isn't enough for doing what a computer can do for free.

Freeborn
Trade Unionism has done the working man of this country far more good than it has done harm.

Except for the bit where the unions crippled the heavy industries of this country. All of them gone because the unions wouldn't get with the times. Shipbuilding? Gone. Car manufacturing? Gone. Mining? Gone. The unions HAVE succeeded, but only because there are no more hard workers to fight for anymore.

Freeborn
Do you really believe that?
I'm not too sure how old you are but I lived through the Thatcher years. I'm under no illusions that certain elements in the Union movement contributed to the demise of manufacturing in this country, but the bulk of the responsibility lies in one direction.

We had to become more competitive. That isn't Thatcher's fault. It's the way of the world. Germany managed it just fine, christ even France did a better job. But not here, because the union men didn't get what they wanted, even though what they wanted was totally unfeasible.

Freeborn
Bob Crow was a decent man.
Like all men I have no doubts he had his faults, just like all of us.
But he tried to do what was right for his membership and he successfully maintained their conditions - I know for a fact many in his position would have buckled or would have faded in to the night with a nice fat brown packet tucked into their back pocket.

You would say that though.

Freeborn
I for one will raise a glass in his name tonight.

edit on 11/3/14 by Freeborn because: grammar

No doubt.

Just the quip about tube drivers sitting on their rears tells me that you have no idea what it means to be a rail worker. I could try telling you but no. The rest of your post shows that even if you were confronted with unrefutable evidence of the wrongness of your position, that you would stick doggedly to it.

Look around you, the country is full of zero hours contracts, sub living wage rates of pay, self employment contracts that pay less. All because people bought the lie that socialism was holding them back.

Now you have millions that can't get by from month to month while those who were already wealthy just got richer.
The well off working man is a thing of the past. This thread is about a proper, old labour style union leader who, unlike the new labour types, was a success for me and thousands of other railway and shipping workers.

LightningStrikesHere
Do you think there was any foul play involved?

Not sure, doubtful, but if I remember correctly, Jimmy Knapp died while he was gen. sec. of the rmt too. Stressful job keeping us lot happy.

SprocketUK
Just the quip about tube drivers sitting on their rears tells me that you have no idea what it means to be a rail worker. I could try telling you but no. The rest of your post shows that even if you were confronted with unrefutable evidence of the wrongness of your position, that you would stick doggedly to it.

Absolutely I would. Because I am correct. Tube drivers sit down, press a few buttons, whinge that their £50,000 a year salary isn't enough, then take it out on the general public when they don't get their own way. It really is just as simple as that.

SprocketUK
Look around you, the country is full of zero hours contracts, sub living wage rates of pay, self employment contracts that pay less. All because people bought the lie that socialism was holding them back.

It's the way of the world. And socialism most definitely does hold national development back. That is not up for debate.

SprocketUK
Now you have millions that can't get by from month to month while those who were already wealthy just got richer.
The well off working man is a thing of the past. This thread is about a proper, old labour style union leader who, unlike the new labour types, was a success for me and thousands of other railway and shipping workers.

Yeah, a proper old labour type, exactly the same as the proper old labour types that left us with no heavy industry whatsoever. Here's a suggestion to ease unemployment. The next time you lot go on strike, or your mates at the royal mail, those who strike should be sacked immediately without right to appeal. Then thousands of jobs would open up.

Now what did the Unions ever do for us...Hmmmm

reply to post by Nolimits


LMAO I'll have some of what you're smoking mate. It must be incredible stuff!
Anyway, during my time on the railway, I was safer and better paid because Bob Crow was who he was.
I'll miss him just as loads of other people will. Hate his politics all you want, but unlike the muppets in Westminster, he actually tried to do the best for the people who voted for him. Not too many people can say that when all's said and done.

SprocketUK
reply to post by Nolimits

 

LMAO I'll have some of what you're smoking mate. It must be incredible stuff!
Anyway, during my time on the railway, I was safer and better paid because Bob Crow was who he was.
I'll miss him just as loads of other people will. Hate his politics all you want, but unlike the muppets in Westminster, he actually tried to do the best for the people who voted for him. Not too many people can say that when all's said and done.

I do not smoke drugs, but the fact that you claim to and also work on the railway is deeply concerning.

And like bob crow, you didn't give a flying # about the next man, only yourself, what you can get out of it, how much more you can screw from the passenger.

I'll hate him, and his politics, and any of the scum who espouse his politics. until the day I breath my last breath.

Whilst I can think of a good word to say about the anti-Crow - his politics and attitudes were diametrically opposite to mine, as was his income and lifestyle - he was only 4 years older than me and that's too young for anyone to die, especially of a heart attack.

reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1001765/pg2#pid17644420]post by Nolimits




The withdrawal of one's labour is literally all a working class worker has as a means of protest.
It is done as a last measure and after all other avenues fail.
The fact that you say that a worker does it to spite or annoy the public shows you have no idea what youre talking about.
Bob Crow was a rare breed, someone who had principles and gave a voice to those without one.

Shame on you