Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

AlphaExray
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

Just heard about this story. Russian Warship Sunk Off Crimea Looks like non violent means are being taken to neutralize the Ukranian naval assets. Despite the defection of the head of the Navy to the Crimean government, sentiment and allegiances in the navy must be questionable enough for Russia to justify a hard point blockade.

"The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense released the above image today showing the Russian Navy’s Ochakov, a Kara-class cruiser, which was intentionally sunk last night to blockade the Ukrainian Navy ships located in Novoozerne."


gcaptain.com...

AX
FTNWO

Great way to block the Ukrainian navy i have to admit sink a ship in the shipping lane keeps all large ships out because they cant enter the shallow water. Militarily its a good move i hadnt heard this yet. It also prevents Russian ships from looking bad having to stop there ships because we know the press would be all over that.

khimbar
'@zerohedge 2m
House passes vote on $1 billion loan guarantee for Ukraine. Gazprom sends thanks'

Made me laugh.

Thats a burn, thats a gas burn...

But seriously, now Ukraine has friends like Exxon and co. lets see how long it is before they are "self sufficient" for gas...

"Ukraine plans to start operating an LNG terminal in 2015 using a floating re-gasification facility offshore and complete the construction of an onshore facility by 2018, allowing it to import about 10 billion cubic metres of gas a year."

"Kiev also has yet to secure supplies of LNG for its terminal. Officials have mentioned Caspian nations such as Azerbaijan and Gulf producers such as QATAR ." (Qatar being a good friend of the USA)

"Apart from developing LNG, Ukraine is also hoping to tap potentially huge shale gas reserves to help it secure independence from Russian gas imports, which are costly and come with a heavy political price tag."

I think this is the most accurate translation

Listen me carefully here! (interrupting reporter). I want to be very clear on that. If we make this decision [to invade Ukraine] we'll do it to protect Ukranian citizens. And we'll see afterwards if any of their servicemen will dare to shot in their own people which we'll stay behind, not in front, but behind! I dare them to shoot in women and children and watch those who can give such an order in Ukraine

Pay attention to the reporter 0:14 leap and image

zerohedge ‏@zerohedge 1m
High-Probability Of Russian Assault Overnight, Ukraine Pravda Says /octwtq4

andy1972

MessageforAll
“We will only say, yet again, that we are dealing with unacceptable arrogance and a pretense of having a monopoly on the truth,”

“The Vietnam War claimed the lives of two million civilians, not to mention totally destroyed the country and polluted the environment,” the diplomat said. “On the pretext of providing security to Americans who simply happened to be in conflict zones, the US invaded Lebanon in 1958 and the Dominican Republic in 1965, attacked tiny Grenada in 1983, bombed Libya in 1986, and occupied Panama three years later.”

The quote above sounds familiar....

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.” Major General Smedley Butler

America...making the world safe for capitalism for more than a century.

This is actually interesting historically Major General Smedley Butler was opposing policies of FDR because he was cutting the military at the time.In 1933 Butler saw this as an affront to the military because he believed FDR was cutting veterans benefits and miltary spending to fill the pockets of wall street investors and FDRs of course.Which he had communist afiliations any way because later In November 1934, Butler told a congressional committee that one Gerald P. MacGuire told him that a group of businessmen, supposedly backed by a private army of 500,000 ex-soldiers and others, intended to establish a fascist dictatorship.There was no evidence of this but you can see in his later years he developed a hatred for big business and leaned to communist ideals which he later implements as mayor. But it was also a sign of the times as well communism was taking hold in the US even before world war 2. This later ends up in the purging that occurs under Hoover the worlds most notorious cross dresser.

xavi1000


Pay attention to the reporter 0:14 leap and image

edit on 6-3-2014 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

Holy...she looks terrified .....

xavi1000
I think this is the most accurate translation

Listen me carefully here! (interrupting reporter). I want to be very clear on that. If we make this decision [to invade Ukraine] we'll do it to protect Ukranian citizens. And we'll see afterwards if any of their servicemen will dare to shot in their own people which we'll stay behind, not in front, but behind! I dare them to shoot in women and children and watch those who can give such an order in Ukraine

Pay attention to the reporter 0:14 leap and image

edit on 6-3-2014 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

Ok so if im understanding the translation hes saying they're going to put women and children in front of his troops and dare the Ukrainians to shoot them? Well that would be exactly the opisit of protecting them and scary i might add.

reply to post by xavi1000


" We'll stand behind,,,,,not in front of '' ....... like human shields?
He sounds pretty terse whatever he's saying. Ouch!

reply to post by Seek_Truth



I never like to rely on google translate but you can try and make out the source in this.

translate.google.com...://www.pravda.com.ua/&sandbox=0&usg=ALkJrhiZeBBJIGpCKJsjCLUlK4YXuFKLuA

dragonridr

Great way to block the Ukrainian navy i have to admit sink a ship in the shipping lane keeps all large ships out because they cant enter the shallow water. Militarily its a good move i hadnt heard this yet. It also prevents Russian ships from looking bad having to stop there ships because we know the press would be all over that.

It's a very old move. Between 1500 and 1700 it was common for naval forces to ditch their older/damaged vessels in key positions so that the incoming naval force would be forced down a killing zone path.

The most recent version of that tactic was during WW2, when the British sunk several old steel ships in key places inside their harbors so that U-boat's couldn't infiltrate and take out ships in their most vulnerable state (docked). The only way U-boats could go around them, was a) Having a confidential map of where those ships were, only provided to those cleared to receive it or b) rise to the surface and being spotted by coastal surveillance, which was bad.

But I must say, I'm rather surprised to see this type of thinking and strategy.

It's fascinating watching these types of bold moves, but it's also freaking scary when you notice a country is taking this seriously enough to afford sinking ships on purpose to make a blockade.

andy1972

khimbar
'@zerohedge 2m
House passes vote on $1 billion loan guarantee for Ukraine. Gazprom sends thanks'

Made me laugh.

Thats a burn, thats a gas burn...

But seriously, now Ukraine has friends like Exxon and co. lets see how long it is before they are "self sufficient" for gas...

"Ukraine plans to start operating an LNG terminal in 2015 using a floating re-gasification facility offshore and complete the construction of an onshore facility by 2018, allowing it to import about 10 billion cubic metres of gas a year."

"Kiev also has yet to secure supplies of LNG for its terminal. Officials have mentioned Caspian nations such as Azerbaijan and Gulf producers such as QATAR ." (Qatar being a good friend of the USA)

"Apart from developing LNG, Ukraine is also hoping to tap potentially huge shale gas reserves to help it secure independence from Russian gas imports, which are costly and come with a heavy political price tag."

edit on PM4Thu20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

edit on PM4Thu20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

your seeing the long game i was talking about thats why Putins making the wrong call. He should have been establishing beter relations with his neighbors for the coming gas wars.

dragonridr

andy1972

khimbar
'@zerohedge 2m
House passes vote on $1 billion loan guarantee for Ukraine. Gazprom sends thanks'

Made me laugh.

Thats a burn, thats a gas burn...

But seriously, now Ukraine has friends like Exxon and co. lets see how long it is before they are "self sufficient" for gas...

"Ukraine plans to start operating an LNG terminal in 2015 using a floating re-gasification facility offshore and complete the construction of an onshore facility by 2018, allowing it to import about 10 billion cubic metres of gas a year."

"Kiev also has yet to secure supplies of LNG for its terminal. Officials have mentioned Caspian nations such as Azerbaijan and Gulf producers such as QATAR ." (Qatar being a good friend of the USA)

"Apart from developing LNG, Ukraine is also hoping to tap potentially huge shale gas reserves to help it secure independence from Russian gas imports, which are costly and come with a heavy political price tag."

edit on PM4Thu20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

edit on PM4Thu20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

your seeing the long game i was talking about thats why Putins making the wrong call. He should have been establishing beter relations with his neighbors for the coming gas wars.

And it just so happens that Exxon, Texaco and Chevron have signed deals to help them tap the gas resources...American corporate muscle moves in just before and after a change of government.....

20:50: Russian Black Sea Fleet servicemen have taken control of a a border checkpoint in the port of Krym, which lies on the Kerch Strait separating Ukraine and Russia, Ukraine's Unian news agency reports. (BBC Monitoring).

BBC Live Updates Stream
www.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by andy1972


...meanwhile my gas is getting flared like an Olympic torch in North Dakota...
kind of crazy that we can't figure out away to get something that is valuable to someone else to them.
We literally are flaring up millions of dollars of gas every day

andy1972

dragonridr

andy1972

khimbar
'@zerohedge 2m
House passes vote on $1 billion loan guarantee for Ukraine. Gazprom sends thanks'

Made me laugh.

Thats a burn, thats a gas burn...

But seriously, now Ukraine has friends like Exxon and co. lets see how long it is before they are "self sufficient" for gas...

"Ukraine plans to start operating an LNG terminal in 2015 using a floating re-gasification facility offshore and complete the construction of an onshore facility by 2018, allowing it to import about 10 billion cubic metres of gas a year."

"Kiev also has yet to secure supplies of LNG for its terminal. Officials have mentioned Caspian nations such as Azerbaijan and Gulf producers such as QATAR ." (Qatar being a good friend of the USA)

"Apart from developing LNG, Ukraine is also hoping to tap potentially huge shale gas reserves to help it secure independence from Russian gas imports, which are costly and come with a heavy political price tag."

edit on PM4Thu20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

edit on PM4Thu20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

your seeing the long game i was talking about thats why Putins making the wrong call. He should have been establishing beter relations with his neighbors for the coming gas wars.

And it just so happens that Exxon, Texaco and Chevron have signed deals to help them tap the gas resources...American corporate muscle moves in just before and after a change of government.....

edit on PM4Thu20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

They're not worried about the production of gas in Ukraine it would be for their use.what it is is it will hurt Gazprom the Russian gas company. Texaco,Exxon and Chevron will lose money setting up gas in Ukraine. But in the end it will crush Gazprom there competitor for Europe. They want to supply Europe with its gas and remove Gazprom from the picture completely. Its not even about countries this is strictly business they will make trillions in gas sales. Here was a good article in forbes about the Gas situation in europe and the dependency on Russia.

www.forbes.com...

The Ukrainian government needs to find some backbone and strike Russia back otherwise Vladimir Putin will continue to push his military forces further into Ukraine. The US and UK in particular, will back Ukraine with military resources. It's clear the diplomats can't agree so Ukraine needs to start protecting itself by using its military.

ProfessorT
The Ukrainian government needs to find some backbone and strike Russia back otherwise Vladimir Putin will continue to push his military forces further into Ukraine. The US and UK in particular, will back Ukraine with military resources. It's clear the diplomats can't agree so Ukraine needs to start protecting itself by using its military.

If Ukraine had a functional army they would already be receiving military support but they dont. so there is no military option short of starting world war 3 which me personally id like to avoid if possible. Ukraine may be able to pull something together it depends on if the Russians give them enough time but right now the balls in Putins court.

reply to post by dragonridr


Well, NATO could always send in "masked gunmen" to help the Ukrainian military, heh.

ETA: and "un-marked" tanks..

Thought this was interesting kiev decided not to play with the eastern region there not even going to allow the same game played in Crimea.Though looking at him id say this isnt the person someone would want in charge anyway.


Donetsk's self-proclaimed separatist governor talks to journalists, gets arrested

www.kyivpost.com...

Whether or not Ukraine's military is up to the task of defending its country remains to be seen but it's crystal clear diplomacy is not working in this situation and more 'forceful' moves are necessary. Asset freezes and visa bans are essentially pointless, especially in Russia's case. Quite frankly I'm getting sick and tired of hearing the same verses from certain politicians about 'sovereignty' and 'territorial integrity' - they both stand for nothing if no-one is willing to stand up to Russia and face them head on. Ukraine needs to make the first move and the rest will follow.