Why is Jesus white?

reply to post by LABTECH767


Not really.

If you read it again, you will see that I said there are more reports of a historical 'Jesus' being Notsri, or Nazarene rather than a Jew or Israelite.

Jewish scholars dispute the existence of a historical Jesus, and certainly say there aren't any accounts in their knowledge of Jesus the rabbi.

Remember, the era of Jesus's alleged birth and life, was a Roman era and Roman legions were from all round the world, including areas known for populations of those with light skin, hair and eyes.

There are some reports of Jesus's father being a Roman legion named Panthera.

It wasn't until after around the 6th century that 'Jesus' got dark hair, a rabbi's beard and an older, more serious, worn look, as well as being placed upon a cross instead of a lamb. Prior to that he was depicted as a pale, joyful youth, often plump, smiling, and dressed in the garb of the day or in the guise of whichever religious tone suited the area or era, for example, toga /monks robes / naked with leaves etc.

Recommended summary

3rd century










6th century





mama.indstate.edu...

The early Christians believed that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem. This belief is based on a misunderstanding of Micah 5.2 which simply names Bethlehem as the town where the Davidic lineage began. Since the early Christians believed that Jesus was the Messiah, they automatically believed that he was born in Bethlehem. But why did the Christians believe that he lived in Nazareth? The answer is quite simple. The early Greek speaking Christians did not know what the word "Nazarene" meant. The earliest Greek form of this word is "Nazoraios," which is derived from "Natzoriya," the Aramaic equivalent of the Hebrew "Notzri." (Recall that "Yeishu ha-Notzri" is the original Hebrew for "Jesus the Nazarene.") The early Christians conjectured that "Nazarene" meant a person from Nazareth and so it was assumed that Jesus lived in Nazareth. Even today, Christians blithely confuse the Hebrew words "Notzri" (Nazarene, Christian), "Natzrati" (Nazarethite) and "nazir" (nazarite), all of which have completely different meanings.

The information in the Talmud (which contains the Baraitas and the Gemara), concerning Yeishu and ben Stada, is so damaging to Christianity that Christians have always taken drastic measures against it. When the Christians first discovered the information they immediately tried to wipe it out by censoring the Talmud. The Basle edition of the Talmud (c. 1578 - 1580) had all the passages relating to Yeishu and ben Stada deleted by the Christians. Even today, editions of the Talmud used by Christian scholars lack these passages!

CleanCare
Dear ATS,

Where are the Asians in the Bible? Where are the dinosaurs? How does Jesus understand a prayer that's in Japanese? Does he speak every single language in the world?

Sorry not sorry.

Why do people look with their eyes and hear with their ears? Why do people look here and there for the Kingdom of Heaven when it is all along within you? Does it matter if Jesus is white or not? I guess because people look with their eyes and hear with their ears and NOT with their hearts. God doesn't need to look with His eyes nor hear with His ears. Because the Heart is where all of creation comes from. The Heart is connected to the Mind and there you will be with God as ONE.

God doesn't use language to communicate. He uses a higher Mind to communicate, a Universal Mind that is connected to ALL things on Earth and the Universe. He listens to your Heart, not your words. Jesus is ONE with me and is ONE with God. He doesn't need language to hear your Heart.

reply to post by ctophil


The thread seems more about the actual non spritiual spects of the bible rather than theology and the machinations of 'God' / Higher energy etc.

Like, where are the dinosaurs in the bible, the actual physical description of 'Jesus' etc.

theabsolutetruth
reply to post by ctophil

 

The thread seems more about the actual non spritiual spects of the bible rather than theology and the machinations of 'God' / Higher energy etc.

Like, where are the dinosaurs in the bible, the actual physical description of 'Jesus' etc.

Understood. However, my objective is to refocus the OP as well as people in general into not put great importance on physical appearances. People depend way too much on their physical senses and looks, and thus has resulted in stereotyping, prejudice, pride, self-centered beliefs, and so forth. These and many others are attributes of the Ego--a vehicle of the physical world. Because of this focus on outer appearances, people also look at the literal aspects of the Bible, or the "what you read is what you get" mentality. There are so many hidden teachings and symbolism in the Bible that would take many years and many levels of understanding to know it all. But nearly 100% of churches and people who are just interested in the historical significance look at the outer appearances of the Bible, which is not what the Bible was intended for in the first place. Its purpose was to teach a higher level of wisdom, and I want people to see it, not with their physical eyes, but with something deeper within.

reply to post by ctophil


Spirituality, great, etc.

But when you actually read the bible, like open it at any page and there's smiting, smoting and begatting and all manner of not very nice things, it kind of detracts from the spiritual aspect, non?

So most folks of an inquisitive and intelligent nature question how those words came about. When they investigate, and find out it has been written and translated and rewritten and re translated and significant bits taken out and contradictions and the subject of Vatican councils and a mish mash of archaic and classical religions, mythologies and politics it sort of detracts from any of the supposed spirituality.

I value Christianity in many ways, it has provided the laws and order of many of our nations, has done some very good work and is pivotal to the formation of organised society as we know it. But there is the aspect of manipulation, control, lies and downright immoral hypocrisy all through it's history from those that controlled it from the top and their priestly minions. Ways that have subjugated populations into blind control.

Now here we are with governments founded on Christian principles and we are slaves to banks and organisations, serfdom of another sort.

I know we have it easier than despot nations and such like but hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

I blame the religious leaders throughout history for that. Therefore I seperate my God / Higher Energy from standard organised religion.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


I am very sorry you have brought that up PANTERA (where both the heavy metal band and the old 1970's German sport's car (with the exploding cast iron engine) have the same name?) no letter H was a fictitious second or third century propaganda against Christianity in which the roman's whom claimed this mixed up Mary Magdelain and Mary the mother of Christ, indeed the story was originated from Rome, The Jew's had been conquered several time's though including by Alexander (Whom set up a statue of Zeus in the empty holy of holy's (remember the ark had been missing since the time of the Babylonian exile) so from that time some Jewish children may and I do say May have had some greek or even blond Macedonian ancestry, however the Jewish people were highly xenophobic of other culture's and insular even under military occupation by the Roman superpower and though there were undoubtedly camp followers most would not have been jewish (though poverty drives even the most devout to extreme's to feed there children).
Now the description of god as I remember it was, face like the sun, eye's like coal's in a furnace, hair and beard whiter than snow, a crown like a rainbow, white robes with a gold belt/girdle around his chest, feet and hand's like burnished brass in the light of a furnace, Now jesus was seen as simply a normal jewish man and possibly at the time of Joseph's death he set out to teach but the jew's certainly did not see him as alien or foreign and indeed remember his word's (A prophet hath no honour in his own land), now the truth is that it really does not matter what he looked like as he is in all that believe in him and especially those whom do as he and his father commanded, I only wish I was that good.

I myself was going through a very bad time back in the early 1990's and let's just say I contemplated the easy way out and took the long way about it, at one point I was lying there and had an occurrence (I will not say psychic as I believe in angel's and demon's but have had more than my fair share of paranormal), I found myself exhausted in front of a man on a cross, his face had been shaven and his hair cut roughly as with a knife clost to his scalp but not as close as a crew cut, he was Mediterranean in appearance and dark haired, covered in blood, A voice said "This is what it is like to be dead", I did not understand but rested my head against his chest as if it was Jesus and went to sleep, Now whether this was Jesus or not is not of importance but what is, is that you believe in him and accept he is in all whom believe in him,.

As for the link to the borga this I did not know but as is well known they were insance, incestuous and evil, they corrupted the catholic church (as did many of the fraternity of Roman bishop's whom soon prevented Anyone from outside Italy becoming Pope, but were far from the first to buy there position (though perhaps they were the most evil and one evey worshiped satan at the high alter) or abuse the power of the church and change it's record's, one reason they wanted to keep control of the bible,.

Have you ever heard the story of Pope Joan, there are several varient's (and one highly fictitious film) but the one I heard many years ago was that in the seventh century AD a woman became pope, in those days there was no ban on a priest marrying and having a family and as Christ had said "I am the way and the resurrection and the life" and "there is no difference between a man and a woman in the resurrection as you shall be given new body's like the angel's"-which means as man was made to work we may rest but we will do as the angels do for god in the universe so out work only begins then and not some safari park with food on the table, the ban on marriage came about in the 900's.

The story goes that one day she was celebrating mass on a street in Rome and because she was pregnant she went into labour, the crowd whom where not true Christians and thought a pope or priestess should be like a vestel virgin went on a rampage and tore her and the child into pieces then trampled them into the dust but after she was celebrated as a martys and a statue of a woman and child was placed on that street to represent her and the innocent child but later rededicated to the virgin mary,.

Several century's later another male pope had her bust removed and replaced with a fictitious bust of a false pope JOHN and all records were expunged from the church though as a martyr she was probably once celebrated as a saint.
Like I say though there are several variant's, one claim's she was anglo saxon and another german.

So the story of Pantera was a ficticious lie made at a time long after the Jewish revolt and at a time of Christian persecution, further it was spawned by they whom were persecuting the Christian's whom they saw as a dangerous Jewish religious sect, after all it was opposed to the Roman imperial cult as well as there other false religion's and the link to Appolinus us another blasphemous though much later lie made long after the fall of Rome.

theabsolutetruth
reply to post by ctophil

 

The thread seems more about the actual non spritiual spects of the bible rather than theology and the machinations of 'God' / Higher energy etc.

cleancareLike, where are the dinosaurs in the bible, the actual physical description of 'Jesus' etc.

This thread was a troller, "Cleancare" vanished after the opening post. The only good thing that has come of it are its respondants not noticing and treating it as legitament. Thats one way to defeat bad intentions; make positive use of an intended negative, am looking forward to your next thread Cleancare Cleancare Cleancare.

theabsolutetruth
reply to post by ctophil

 

Spirituality, great, etc.

But when you actually read the bible, like open it at any page and there's smiting, smoting and begatting and all manner of not very nice things, it kind of detracts from the spiritual aspect, non?

So most folks of an inquisitive and intelligent nature question how those words came about. When they investigate, and find out it has been written and translated and rewritten and re translated and significant bits taken out and contradictions and the subject of Vatican councils and a mish mash of archaic and classical religions, mythologies and politics it sort of detracts from any of the supposed spirituality.

I value Christianity in many ways, it has provided the laws and order of many of our nations, has done some very good work and is pivotal to the formation of organised society as we know it. But there is the aspect of manipulation, control, lies and downright immoral hypocrisy all through it's history from those that controlled it from the top and their priestly minions. Ways that have subjugated populations into blind control.

Now here we are with governments founded on Christian principles and we are slaves to banks and organisations, serfdom of another sort.

I know we have it easier than despot nations and such like but hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

I blame the religious leaders throughout history for that. Therefore I seperate my God / Higher Energy from standard organised religion.

Yes indeed that the Bible has a lot of literal parts that are distracting. Because it is also a historical document showcasing various time periods of Earth. No matter the time period, you are going to find egotistical behaviors among the populace, the government, and even the higher beings in the Bible. Because we are talking about the 3rd Dimension after all. But then, in our modern times, is not our daily lives distracting from True Spirituality as well? It is the same. Our job is to decipher using inner intuition and take out aspects of Spirit for your own learning and then leave the rest as something as a lesson. This is true for both spiritual books and the school of life in general.

I talked a little bit about religion in one of my recent posts. It explains why a religion is just a single way to explain the Spirit.

reply to post by LABTECH767


The examples I gave are those that suggest the historical 'Jesus' was not the same as the biblical 'Jesus'. Most historical accounts vary greatly from the bible versions. The Pantera / Pantheira / Pandera are variations of the same name (I recall the band of the same name) and is an example of a contemporary report of the time.

All in all, if there was ever a historical 'Jesus' is questionable. The stories in the bible clearly echo many from other older religions, as do the pictorial depictions of 'Jesus' and the bible stories.

Most written accounts that are not of the bible tell of various possibilities for a historical 'Jesus' such as being that of a Nazarene, neither Jew nor Israelite. An early Christian sect that predates Jesus and biblical Christianity with Greek and Roman connections.

There are similarities to Hadrians gay Greek lover Antonous in 130AD where Hadrian made him a state sponsored cult and ordered his worship.

Christianity and the term Christ existed before the historical 'Jesus' and the biblical Christianity.

People should remember that the era of early BC (and for many hundreds of years after) was a political and religious hotbed of ideas, all taking from each other and creating their own versions, like sales pitches in some sort of feudal, tribal mish mash, all were competing for supremacy and followers and Christianity has borrowed from other religions so much that it is imperative to look to historical reports that are not constructs of the bible.

nazirene.org...

Today we call ourselves by the Greek word Christian -- but have we ever questioned where the term originated? And what does it mean? The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge confirms that the name "originated outside of Christian and Jewish circles". The Mercer Dictionary of the Bible states that: "By the late first and early second centuries the name ‘Christian,’ which early believers avoided using of themselves, was beginning to be accepted".

If modern believers were truly sincere in their desire for a more intimate relationship with the Lord, they would immediately want to know and question why "early believers avoided" using the name Christian? When it is realized that even the very name Christian was in use prior to the time of Jesus, we truly begin to grasp the Pagan connection. The name Christian was a term employed to describe one who was an initiate, and understood the inner meaning of the Greek and Roman mystery religions. Thus, the early followers of Jesus refused to be called Christian, and call Jesus the Christ, because the word was used in reference to enlightened Pagans and their gods.

Unlike the people of the simple faith, the biblical scholars knew that many Pagan concepts were added into the text of the New Testament in order to better bring the text into harmony with traditional Greek and Roman religious ideas. With good reason it has even been speculated that the verse most used by modern Evangelical Christians to prove that Jesus was God, was added to the beginning of John at a later date by the Roman Church in the endeavor to Paganize the gospel. What this means is that Christians today could in every way be calling upon the god of Plato, and the Christ of the Pagan philosophers.

The great change that literally pulled the proverbial rug out from under the Christian world was brought about with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Everything that biblical scholars and theologians thought they knew, had to re-evaluated when the scrolls gave them the ability to transcend time itself -- and for the first time in almost two thousand years, they were able to perceive the true foundation of Christian thought. The ramifications were literally astounding -- i.e., what this meant was that all their theories, as well as everything that was ever written about the Gospel of John prior to that time, was in error. It did not matter that Luther, Calvin and the common believers quoted and used John, often to the exclusion of the other gospels. The problem was that the anti-Gnostic church which evolved out of the Roman Empire was incapable of understanding even the elementary aspects of the gospel, because they did not comprehend the tradition in which it was founded. The scholar understood this fact – whereas, even today the preacher of the simple faith does not.

With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls biblical scholars and theologians realized for the first time that the true foundation of the teachings of Jesus was Jewish Essene Gnosticism. From a religious perspective, this was not good news. With this revelation was born a whole host of issues that our experts were simply not prepared to cope with. The problem was that the people we rely upon for answers -- i.e., the biblical scholar, the theologian, the clergy and priest, as well as all the books and reference material written on Christianity -- was suddenly rendered useless and ineffectual.

reply to post by ctophil


As I said before the thread is literal.

I do not need your spiritual advice nor advice on reading bibles.

My spirituality is good thanks.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


It does appear a troll thread, I did suspect this, due to the lack of information in the thread title and practically no contribution from the person whose thread it is /was.

Still, there are people with intellects that care about such things as the truth and reality, despite the mindset of trolls.

Ironically ATS and 'denying ignorance' seems to be the opposite mantra of many posters. Nevermind, their loss!

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


What I highly suggest is that you research the History and tradition's of the Syriac Orthodox church and it's nicean independent catachysm, They are actually descended from the Jewish Aramaic Speaking Christians and though a split meant half joined the Catholic church (Because of ancient anger with the Orthodox) they still hold mass in the Aramic language and have a Marionite tradition that goes right back, they had already painting of a bearded Christ as did indeed the Greek's orthodox and Russian orthodox and Armenian, Georgian and Ethiopian, the Coptic long before the Borgia's even soiled there nappies so I think you need to overhaul the source of your fact's a little.
I am no doctor of religion but They are real churches and the Syriac orthodox were a fully Christian kingdom when Europe was barbarian heathen land with rome gone and a few hermit monks from the outer Hebrides of Scotland and the islands of Ireland making missionary journeys to restore the Christian religion to Europe, indeed the oldest bible in Rome is actually from lindisfarn and was taken there by missionary's whom found the church practicing pagan ceremony and with nearly no knowledge of the bible, But through all this time the Syrian orthodox and the Greek orthodox had thrived, the rebirth of western Christianity with it's erroneous interpretations and new catachysm coincided with the birth of islam and the true church the Syriac orthodox church entered a time of persecution and conquest but SURVIVED, another church that held some lost book's from before Rome or Constantinople and therefore a true church is the Ethiopian orthodox church, the book of enoch was recovered from that church with it's descriptions of the Nephilim as blonde and blue eyed as was according to that African text NOAH, though Enoch was not as He was angry that His son was blond and blue eyed but god told him the child was a gift and was his son.

However if you believe in Christ does this matter as long as you simply try to do as he asked.

You know the oldest fragment of one of the book's of the new testament was found in Egypt and is first century so the claim it is based on other religion's is a revisionist historical view which has become increasingly popular in atheist circle's and for authors wanting to write a book and is based on some shaky information at best.
The depiction of winged and haloed angels was taken from the Greek's and based indeed on there way of representing divine being's, Another thing to look up on was an episode in the orthodox church history that was a bloody and unchristian affair called the iconoclasm, essentially it was a civil war with one faction calling iconography idolatary and trying to remove all image's and base there religion only on the word but the other side won and the argument was not every one can read, the catholic church was influenced and the stations of the cross became common in western churches.
Long before the muhamadans were knocking head's off statues it happened in Egypt under a christial leader whom led the Christians to dominance and overthrew the old temple's by force.

When the truth can no longer be dodged a lier or unbeliever will turn to mokery as is the old bully tactic to get a gang around them, YOU DO KNOW that a lot of this claiming Christ is based on heathen deity's is simple revisionist history based on revisionist atheists whom tried to disprove Christianity and then came up with a belief in there own opinion's that like a cult they tried to force down others throat's while gathering the easily led to themselves, Winning an argument does not prove a person right and the argument merely proves there bestial nature like a wolf pack squabbling for dominance (biting one another's neck's until one submits to the other, we are above such and I will leave it there.

reply to post by ctophil


Here's a humorous view on religion, it might explain the troll thread and a lot of other things too.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Firstly you seem confused, I never mentioned Borgias, I gave examples of much earlier depictions of Christ and said a bearded Christ appeared after the 6th century.

The facts are that there are many similarities to ancient cults and religions that are academic research rather than religious slandering.

Such as Isis / Mary, Serapis, Mithras, Apollo, Horus etc, I suggest you read about it. Here is a list of a few.

www.jesusneverexisted.com...

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


The one thing Jesus called a fool after telling us never to call anyone a fool is they whom do not believe in God.
He never denied us science or knowledge but our live's here are short, all we achieve here fall's to dust and our name's are not remembered, Atheists want he world to be like them, were is there morality, were is there social structure, where is there awareness.
You know a great author once said were there is an alter there you will find civilisation, With the fall of religion is the rise of anarchy and people lose there identity as individual's this in turn lead's to social schism and later decay then social collapse.
The SOVIET's Maintained there ATHEIST culture by enforcing PARTY doctrine in place of religion but the Christian and muslim faith thrived under them despite persecution.
How do Atheist believe they will win an argument to FORCE people to see through there eye's when those people already see better than them.

reply to post by LABTECH767


I do not recommend atheism or communism.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Then I would offer an apology as I misinterpreted you.
Personally I am a Christian but have a deep respect for Buddhists and Indeed any person whom values human life and that includes the more Human among the Humanist movement even though they are atheists by majority.
I also respect Agnostic's as they are simply not religious but neither are they atheist.
Just militant atheists as they rub me up the wrong way and I will stay out of argument's with Islam as ATS has surely seen enough of that.

theabsolutetruth
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

 

It does appear a troll thread, I did suspect this, due to the lack of information in the thread title and practically no contribution from the person whose thread it is /was.
Still, there are people with intellects that care about such things as the truth and reality, despite the mindset of trolls.Ironically ATS and 'denying ignorance' seems to be the opposite mantra of many posters. Nevermind, their loss!

Sure we care or can elaborate with our sophisticated mind sets turn sows ears into silk purses. Yea goes the intellect, recognised finally on a throw away troll offering. Says something for the cascade model. I say only one statement "Pave the earth" you respond in kind. I knew you knew BTW several pages up.

iRoyalty....

I 100% used to be on your side of the fence, I thought it was western men not wanting to bow down to someone who was brown.

However I gave it some thought and the Israeli's are pretty damn white,

by ''white'' do you mean generally light skinned like some middle eastern people, (especially Syrians,Lebanese and Persians)??... Or do you mean strictly European? Because most Israelis today are Ashkenazi. Euro-Jews with European looks. A lot of them are of Russian origin as well, (which is why Russian is also spoken significantly in Israel.) These European/Russian Jews have zero to little connection to that land. Going by their looks, they are mostly converts... or mixed heavily with europeans during their stay in europe.