Secret Connections: LDS Church and the American Intelligence Community

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Typically if I say "we" I mean our country, government, Americans or whichever applicable term makes sense. Which in this case I do.. Also, I am trained and certified by the DIA, from one of those schools, although I am recently retired. The phrase "company" historically means the CIA but in the intel world that hasn't been used in years. Kind of like delta force. Everyone knows what that is but their name has changed three times since the. The most known is CAG (pronounced like a word) which stands for combat applications group. They too do not go by that anymore either.

reply to post by bonecrusher321


I used that term specifically because there are very few that know of it and use it. You knew exactly what it meant!

Considering the connections I posited in the OP, would you say that the LDS Church's missionary program exists for the purpose of providing international travelers for the sake of intelligence gathering?

reply to post by sheepslayer247

I wouldn't infer that about LDS or any organization. I'm sure missionaries have probably been used just as professors, businessmen, expatriates, and industry professionals have. This is not a classified program, although you'd be hard pressed to find any information about it containing a reasonable degree of accuracy, or unreasonable degree. You probably can still find job listings for debriefers to contract in Iraq. That's been ongoing since our official exit. If the link works its to a job listing in oh.

I can't make the link work. If you go to simplyhired and search strategic debriefer you'll find listings. Contractors like Booz Allen would have overseas contracts

reply to post by bonecrusher321


Thank you for adding to this discussion. Your perspective is greatly appreciated!

While you're online, please check your ATS private messages.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


I think alot of Mormons know the religion is false. But I also think many could care less. At the end of the day it works and works well. Utah is a great place to live and grow up like I did. And I am not a Mormon.






Kind caring people with a deep sense of community. They watch out for there neighbors and raise kids as a collective. Heck I know the religion is full of it but I would consider joining just to be a part of the community again........Good people.

reply to post by SubTruth


It's funny that you mention the word "community", because the Mormons experimented in it's early stages with what is considered "communist" governance/living.

Do a search on Orderville, Ut.

sheepslayer247
reply to post by semperfortis

 

My point is that if a Mormon asset truly believes and accepts the principle of blood atonement, as described in the Book of Mormon, would they not be able to justify and handle the psychological consequences of torturing or killing another human better than the average person?

Or am I way off base here?

Not "way off" by any means

No real answer

Religious zealots are impossible to read. As for handling the psychological consequences, that is also a misnomer as anyone that can handle torture without negative psychological consequences is not someone that should be considered well adjusted. In fact they would need to be either a Sociopath, psychotic or a mixture of the 2. In other words they would kill anyway even if not in the performance of their duties..

semperfortis
As for handling the psychological consequences, that is also a misnomer as anyone that can handle torture without negative psychological consequences is not someone that should be considered well adjusted. In fact they would need to be either a Sociopath, psychotic or a mixture of the 2. In other words they would kill anyway even if not in the performance of their duties..

Do you think they can ever retire? Even after retirement I mean? Are some of them "retired" permanently?

Wow, never heard anything so rediculous.
I am, a born into the church Mormon, who stopped attending when I was about 20. I served in the military and in Iraq, and later used my GI Bill to go to Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, AZ to major in Global Security and Intelligence Studies with a focus in political science and history, and minored in helicopter flight.

As someone previously pointed out in this post, the LDS church is the 4th largest religion in the US. Because so many people who are Mormon happen to work for certain companies or agencies does not mean that the church is involved in a conspiracy for Christ's sake. Are a lot of people in business and in the intel community Mormon? Yes. But it is a result of their high moral standards and experiences abroad. Qualities that hiring companies look for regardless of background. A Mormon is very less likely to be compromised with mind alternating substances. Less likely to call in "sick" because of a hangover. At 21 and returning from 2 years living in a foriegn country having to speak their language, a Mormon returned missionary has way more world experience than some other kid just outof high school, not to mention the close relationships with folks overseas that can come in handy for business ventures.

The govt. does not train missionaries to be spies before sending them off. They may be debriefed at their own personal choice by an intelligence agency upon return, especially from an otherwise politically isolated area of the world, but not in any way through some agreement between the church and the govt.

Yes the church collects vast amounts of data on family trees, and as someone also pointed out earlier, it is not for any nefarious reason other than to perform ordinances for relatives who have passed. It is their belief that if someone wasn't given the opportunity here on Earth to hear about the Mormon religion and be baptised, it can then be done by proxy after their death with the idea that as those relatives await in the spirit world for the 2nd coming of Christ and the resurrection, they will have the opportunity to eitherACCEPT OR DENY any ordinances performed in their name. It is not to "force" them to be Mormon after they die. If you claim to not believe it, then you shouldn't care if someone utters a prayer with your dead relative's name, however if you do take offense, then maybe you believe more than you seem to let on? And don't you think it is a little selfish for you to deny your relative even the chance to make that decision for themselves in the afterlife? Who gave you sole say over the souls of your ancestors? Their database is only names and dates of birth and death as well as marriages. No personal information, it's no different than information that is public anyway, they just make it easier to search by putting several different sources for geneology work into one single database open to the public.

My overal point is, you can take any other religion, look at how many people in a particular industry or field are members of that religion, then start making inferences to a "conspiracy" just based on those people who just happened to also bemembers of the same church. E.g. Just because so many baseball players are Catholic there must be a conspiracy between the Catholic church and the MLB.

Mormons look to our constitution, freedoms, and specifically the 1st amendment as being the sole reason the church was allowed to be on the Earth today. Mormons are for the most part very patriotic and sincere constitutionalists. Someone managed to point out how Mormon communities operate like communism. Nope. They act like Christians taking care of eachother, communism is forced and takes away our free agency, something every Mormon will tell you is our most cherished God-given right.

It's highly annoying when people assume so many different things about the LDS church. I know plenty of LDS people, having lived in Utah before, and most of the things people assume is completely false, or misconstrued. People talk about being open minded, accepting of others, and the like, yet I've seen the LDS people get a lot of negative attention, and for what? Being decent people? I've lived in Idaho, Utah, and Arizona, all of which have a good amount of LDS people, I have yet to meet any perfect people from any religion, but overall they are good people. Even when I have not been a member myself, they will help with different things, such as moving into my house, or offering a meal when I am not quite moved in. They are kind, volunteer help, are very involved in their own neighborhoods and communities. I've met hundreds of these people or more, and a few might have rubbed me the wrong way, but I don't attribute a person's ignorance/chance of being anti-american to their religion alone, especially this one.

As a side note, I am not claiming every single LDS member is pure, free of all guilt, or harmless. I am not saying zero of them are on the bad side of the CIA, I am not making any claims like this because religion alone will never define a person as a whole. I am claiming that, throughout my life, and the life of my parents, a whole lot of what ignorant people assume, is completely false, misconstrued, etc.

Deny Ignorance, ATS. From all of my experience, and the experiences I have heard from many family members/friends - Being LDS or not, you are way off on this one.

WOW,,,,, Mormons are not only accused of being communist, but also of causing or being involved in all our problems concerning things like privacy and spying. What do you suggest we do about them? The scum of the earth people should be eliminated from the face of the earth. I know, we already have the FEMA camps, lets throw them in there. Oh wait....... Already been tried. Remember that guy that started WW2 and the Japanese interment camps.

I know it would never happen, I mean history never repeats itself. Not really. Lets just find a group of people who are highly successful and blame all our problems on them. Maybe things will get better. I mean it worked once.

Just saying, wont you have to rewrite history if it works for you ??????

reply to post by The GUT


No that's movie stuff. I was in the Army, which is where I retired from. Even though trained I only actually did any of the debriefingwork in Iraq a few times. When you retire you retire. Unless you choose to contract, higher on as a GS or SES government job or teach. I personally had enough of the lifestyle in government/military service and have chosen not to instruct. I may go back and teach at one of the schools at some point but not right now. I'm just taking time to myself.

reply to post by fatboyinternational


The LDS religion actually does teach about, but does not currently practice ( that I know of.. ) what is called The Law of Consecration. I'd describe it less as communism, and more of a voluntary socialistic setting where no one goes hungry, and no one is greedy. Obviously it's flawed in nature because of how greedy people can be, but at it's core, at least what my friend told me about it, it's quite the concept. Very caring/community involved - Everyone puts in, no one lacks necessities.

reply to post by deadlyhope


The LDS church has a very extensive relief program. They produce goods and services free of cost to any that need it. They have donated food clothing and medical supplys to all parts of the world, the Philipene islands recienly, Haiti after the eq, Hurricane Sandy and Katrina, and other disasters you many of which you have probably never heard of. This relief effort is made possible by contributions of money and time by members of the church. Help that runs in the Hundreds of millions of dollars. These particular contributions are not required. They are made volenterily. You do not have to be a member to recieve this help.

I dont know what your friend told you about what the church was. This is how the church operates today. It doesnt sound much like communism to me. It sounds more like how a church should operate.

You are not required to participate if you dont want to. But if you ever get cold and hungry, look us up. If you dont and you go hungry its your own fault.

You still havent answered the question about how we should deal with these dastardly people. How dare they think of helping others, in need, with food money and clothing.

The GUT

Not to mention Allen Dulles primary failure--and the the superior ability of the Soviets to actually penetrate us--as evidenced by the Ghelen Organization and other Project Paperclip stupidity. Much respect & no offense, jus' sayin.' History tells all.

Since you broached the subject I have done a good deal of reading on the Gehlen organization/ Maxx / Angleton /CIA and what comes through is not "failure" to penetrate but what was set up to appear as such. Angleton allowed Israel to penetrate our networks just as Dulles, Donovan and Casey allowed GRU and KGB to do the same.

It's a pattern we've seen repeated time and again. The real intelligence operations that were successful we will likely never hear about but the so-called failures abound. The Saudis have done the same thing to us which resulted in 9/11. It all points to a higher authority operating a level above these alphabet agencies, one that has no national loyalties - just like money has no loyalty - it flows to wherever it's needed. They who move the money move the intelligence.

Currently the US is being flooded with Chinese operatives, many working as students and technicians.
That's a big clue to me for what the future may hold.

The GUT

semperfortis
As for handling the psychological consequences, that is also a misnomer as anyone that can handle torture without negative psychological consequences is not someone that should be considered well adjusted. In fact they would need to be either a Sociopath, psychotic or a mixture of the 2. In other words they would kill anyway even if not in the performance of their duties..

Do you think they can ever retire? Even after retirement I mean? Are some of them "retired" permanently?

Didn't you think it more than convenient that Bill Casey had most of his brain removed right before he could testify in the Iran/Contra hearings?

reply to post by CavTrooper0430


Thanks for chiming in on the topic.

My overal point is, you can take any other religion, look at how many people in a particular industry or field are members of that religion, then start making inferences to a "conspiracy" just based on those people who just happened to also bemembers of the same church. E.g. Just because so many baseball players are Catholic there must be a conspiracy between the Catholic church and the MLB.

I agree. But I don't believe that I simply made uniformed accusations against the Church that could be applied to any religion. I provided source material, including statements made in government reports, that specifically state that there is connection.

It is not my intent to bash the religion or to create controversy where none exists. I believe I have provided ample evidence to show that there is, in fact, a high probability of a connection/conspiracy and I would be glad to go through the evidence provided and discuss its validity.

reply to post by deadlyhope

It's highly annoying when people assume so many different things about the LDS church.

I assumed nothing. The OP has sources, links and material for you to dig in to. Did you check out the material before you assumed I was assuming?

you are way off on this one.

Sadly, I have to disagree.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


This link NSA Utah Data Center in your OP is almost farcical. What do you think about statements like these:

We are happy to report that we "dodged a bullet" recently when President Obama gave his January 17th speech on NSA "reforms". We were all ready to provide complete transparency about the current operating status of the Utah Data Center, but happily now it looks like we won't have to!

Instead, we are providing this nice wintry collection of recent photos of our data center:

Sadly, due to the MASSIVE ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS at the Utah Data Center, we missed our scheduled September 24th completion date and had to cancel our dedication ceremony.

We quietly uninvited our loyal partners at the local, state, and federal level who had the vision and fortitude to enable us to build this powerful Intelligence Community data center "for the good of the Nation".

reply to post by fatboyinternational

WOW,,,,, Mormons are not only accused of being communist, but also of causing or being involved in all our problems concerning things like privacy and spying.

I did not accuse them of being communist. I said: "the Mormons experimented in it's early stages with what is considered "communist" governance/living.".

If you look into Orderville, Ut and its past connection with the Church, you will find many considered that to be the first and only "communist experiment" in the US.

What do you suggest we do about them? The scum of the earth people should be eliminated from the face of the earth. I know, we already have the FEMA camps, lets throw them in there. Oh wait....... Already been tried. Remember that guy that started WW2 and the Japanese interment camps.

You are confusing my attempt to share information and stir-up conversation with intolerant ignorance in which we round up these people and send em to the FEMA camps. Just because I bring this info to people's attention, does not mean that I subscribe to extremist ideologies where it is the goal to suppress one's right to religious freedom.