It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Secret Connections: LDS Church and the American Intelligence Community

page: 3
58
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 01:29 PM
link   

sheepslayer247
reply to post by semperfortis
 


Thanks for adding your take on this topic, Semp.

I was thinking about your comment that operatives are highly-trained and the time it takes to achieve those skills.

The most important thing the intelligence agencies need is information, correct? If an operative's main task is to gather information and pass it along to their agency contacts, would they really need extensive training?

I thought it was an excellent post by semper, too. However--as you point out--we know from history that "operatives" can be very expendable and aren't necessarily required to be highly trained...just convenient.



edit on 8-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 01:38 PM
link   
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


Oh yeah

Big time in many different fields

One could imagine acting classes, but I'm not sure about that

The training I am sure they need/get is

1. Cultural Nuance/language variables
2. Basic information gathering
3. Intelligence filtering
4. Communications, transmitting/receiving/securing
5. Use and security of codes
6. SERE.. (Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape)
ETC

That is just the short list...

Think of it this way

The agency can either slip someone in with little or no training and hope they are a valuable asset, or they can train and educate and insert an asset with a high percentage of success and survival..




posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 01:43 PM
link   

semperfortis
The agency can either slip someone in with little or no training and hope they are a valuable asset, or they can train and educate and insert an asset with a high percentage of success and survival..


Historically, it has taken both kinds. For logical--though often perverted--reasons. An asset is an asset. I'm fairly certain you actually know this though.



edit on 8-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:12 PM
link   
reply to post by semperfortis
 


I agree that a lot of training would be needed to create a successful asset. But just think, the LDS Missionary program takes care of some of that training for them.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:19 PM
link   

sheepslayer247
I agree that a lot of training would be needed to create a successful asset. But just think, the LDS Missionary program takes care of some of that training for them.

They can't reveal much under torture either.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:31 PM
link   
reply to post by The GUT
 


Not so true in modern times

Placing an untrained asset increases the risk of discovery exponentially.. Which also increases the security measures by the opposition should that particular asset be discovered; which is highly likely with an untrained asset...

The only time an intelligence agency would place an untrained asset would be an asset already living and working in the area where the information is needed..

Even that requires a trained asset in order to "turn" the potential asset that is in the critical area where information is needed.

Think about it.. It is all very logical..

"Intelligence War Games 101"




posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:41 PM
link   
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


Big Business owns politics via lobbying and other means, so wouldn't the Mormon church, in effect, be spying on their own? Maybe to maintain or expand their control?



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:56 PM
link   

semperfortis
"Intelligence War Games 101"

Not really. It's recognized by many historians--both intelligence operatives and not--that our alphabets are NOTORIOUSLY bad at infiltration in foreign countries (Domestic, fascist-like, cointelpro is a different matter.) Hence the ever-increasing reliance on SIGINT and other electronic measures, drones, etc. Tier One forces, too, who blast in after the fact.

Of course, the cadre hope and wish they were that effective at infiltration, but, sadly, that doesn't seem to be the historical case. There are many modern references on that subject, but it was addressed years ago in Marchetti and Marks' The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence.

Not to mention Allen Dulles primary failure--and the the superior ability of the Soviets to actually penetrate us--as evidenced by the Ghelen Organization and other Project Paperclip stupidity. Much respect & no offense, jus' sayin.' History tells all.


edit on 8-2-2014 by The GUT because: minutiae and clarification



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 02:57 PM
link   
reply to post by semperfortis
 


On the topic of torture:

It seems to me that it would take some sort of desensitization training in order to torture and/or kill another person...unless they are nuts.

But the Book of Mormon teaches blood atonement.


In Mormonism, blood atonement was a controversial doctrine that taught that murder is so heinous that the atonement of Jesus does not apply. Thus, to atone for these sins the perpetrators must have their blood shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering. The concept was originally taught by Brigham Young, though it appears to be an expansion on the previous teachings of Joseph Smith, Jr. This doctrine is no longer accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).[1]


See where I am going with this?



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 03:20 PM
link   
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


Definitely a thread I'm going to check in on daily! Great stuff. I had never heard of or thought of that connection before.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 03:33 PM
link   
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 





This doctrine is no longer accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).[1


At least not publicy. It appears that 'Mormonism' has many layers, and I suspect a very select few know the 'true' root that has religion as its front.

Many disciples are 'trained' to do good(?) works in the name of God, and one of them is gathering data on every human on the planet. Missionaries sure do this part well!

Could they be trained to gather other intelligence as well, thinking they're working for 'god'; not realizing what the 'innocent' christian data' they are gathering is really being used for?

It seems to be easy to manipulate people into doing nefarious bidding if you can convince them they are doing a good thing for the greater good of man.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 03:59 PM
link   
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


Physical Torture is one of the least effective forms of interrogation... The end result is you can not trust any of the information you obtain...

Psychological is much better.. Also Reid is extremely effective once it is tuned to the individual culture.



And no.. Not sure what direction you are headed in



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 04:01 PM
link   
reply to post by The GUT
 


Most if not all intelligence agencies not only want everyone to believe they are incompetent, they actively pursue advertising that fact every way they can..Trust me on this...




posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 04:15 PM
link   

semperfortis
Most if not all intelligence agencies not only want everyone to believe they are incompetent, they actively pursue advertising that fact every way they can..Trust me on this...

I hear ya', but the "blunt force" of our foreign policy suggests that the only ones falling for that are those who have a vested interest in looking in the mirror and believing it.

I was once as gung-ho and strac as they come. Then I took a good look around me. After that, I chose to follow my own counsel, STRAC as ever, but wiser and more discriminating.



edit on 8-2-2014 by The GUT because: two words



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 04:30 PM
link   
reply to post by semperfortis
 



11 Surprising Things You Didn't Know About Mormons
www.businessinsider.com...


Mormonism is one of the fastest-growing religions in the U.S.

With 6 million members, Mormonism is now the fourth-largest religion in the United States, according to the most recent data from the Pew Research Center. The church claims to add about 1 million members every three years.

More than a quarter of American Mormons - including Fox News host Glenn Beck — converted to the faith.

. . .

The church's assets are thought to be worth more than $30 billion.

The main source of the church's wealth is tithing — Mormons are required to give one-tenth of their annual income to the church in order to be allowed to pray in the Temple. The church reportedly receives more than $5 billion in tithes every year.

The church also has substantial real estate and for-profit business investments, managed by Deseret Management Corp. The company is one of the largest owners of farm and ranch land in the U.S. It owns the country's largest nut producer, AgReserves, Inc., the 14th largest radio chain, Bonneville International Corp., and a life insurance company.

. . .

In 2010 Goldman Sachs hired 31 grads from Brigham Young University — the same number hired from Wharton.

Mormons hold a disproportionate number of top jobs at several major companies, including Marriott, American Express, Dell, Lufthansa, Fisher-Price, and Deloitte.

Here is a link to the Deseret Management Corp (the Mormon directed corporate entity).
www.deseretmanagement.com...

So clearly the Mormon community are active participants on the global economy in finance and land management. This is standard for any power players but also, through their business connections, provides access to information that may desirable to government agencies.

Someone mentioned the Russian Orthodox Church, but it seems the Mormons are also suspect in Russia.

Is the Russian Mormon Church an FBI Front?
www.vice.com...


. . . the Young Guard turned up to Mormon meeting houses last week in Moscow, St. Petersburg, and other cities and picketed them, accusing Mormons of being “foreign agents” paid by the USA to brainwash young Russians. They also claimed that many young Mormon missionaries return to America to become members of the FBI and CIA.

When I heard that a group of brainwashed idiots were picking on another group of brainwashed idiots, I felt confused and sad at how stupid the whole world is. So I decided to talk to Elena Nechiporova, the Russian press contact for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
. . .

OK, so I don't want to jump to any conclusions here, but did you notice she didn’t actually deny being a front for US state-sponsored espionage at any point? Yeah, I know. Still, it’s inconclusive and I'm no further in figuring out whether an openly evangelical Church originating in America would be a completely brilliant Trojan horse for state-sponsored pro-American agents in Russia, or a very, very stupid one.


Very interesting developments after looking further into the dealings of the LDS church.

I have to give it to the OP, you certainly have my interest piqued on this subject.

-FBB



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 05:06 PM
link   
reply to post by semperfortis
 


My point is that if a Mormon asset truly believes and accepts the principle of blood atonement, as described in the Book of Mormon, would they not be able to justify and handle the psychological consequences of torturing or killing another human better than the average person?

Or am I way off base here?



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 05:07 PM
link   
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Thanks!

To get your attention and spur a debate was my intent.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 10:03 PM
link   
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


It's not really a conspiracy, just a program unknown to the public for what should be obvious reasons. It's DIA ran for purposes of strategic debriefing. This specific program can and is used with international travels from all over the private sector. When an individual is identified that may be exposed to certain required information they are approached individually and asked if they will participate. If so they are not told what we want. Telling them will only serve to risk human nature taking over and motivating someone to "seek out" the intel. When they returned they are interviewed about their time abroad and have no idea what it is we are looking for or if we got it. But they do know that they participated in assisting USI. This agent training is only done in two places, Arizona and Virginia.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 10:07 PM
link   
reply to post by semperfortis
 


Check my other response. As these are private citizens they have and receive no training as they are not tasked with anything. They only agree to answer questions and discuss their travel upon returning. This is one of three, formerly four, programs the DIA runs. Does the CIA do this? The answer is no. However, military personnel that are trained at the farm in the military program do spend their first 1-2 years CONUS on another mission if they are non native foreign language speakers and there is no current assignment available that fits their skill set.



posted on Feb, 8 2014 @ 10:14 PM
link   
reply to post by bonecrusher321
 


Your response seems logical, but I have to ask about something particular that you said.



If so they are not told what we want.


We? Am I reading in to this too much or are you possibly part of the "company"?
edit on 8-2-2014 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
58
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join