The Real Meaning Behind Jesus Sacrifice.

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posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 04:51 PM
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The Real Meaning Behind Jesus Sacrifice.






Matthew 20:28:
"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."



In the above verse, Jesus says, “He gives his life as a Ransom for many”, but what is left open to interpretation, is the manner, in which Jesus gives his life for many.

Here’s an analogy, to help try and explain my own perspective…

***

Imagine a soldier, who has been given a mission to deliver a message. The message must be delivered to an army who are in danger, because an enemy is fast approaching them. Unfortunately the soldier is going to have to get past the enemy in order to deliver that message to the captain of the army. The soldier knows that it is a risky mission, and that he might get killed (from Jesus/God perspective, God knew ahead of time, that Jesus would be killed by men) in the process.

The soldier does his best to deliver his message but along his journey he gets shot a few times and is bleeding heavily. He finally makes it to the camp and crawls into the captains headquarters. The soldier reaches into his pocket and hands an envelope to the captain, which contains the coordinates of the enemies position and details of what the captain must do to avoid the enemy. After he has handed over the message, the soldier, because he has lost too much blood, dies from his wounds.

***

Now I would say that the soldier gave his life for those men, but it is not his death/blood that saves them… it’s the message that he died to bring, that saves them.

I see Jesus sacrifice, in the same way, in my analogy above. In that He comes to testify to the truth, knowing that men would reject it, and have him killed for doing so.




John 18:37
37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.

Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”



In the above verse, Jesus must be aware that he is about to be crucified by the Romans. This is the perfect time, to state he is going to be a sacrifice, for all sins. But he does no such thing, he instead states, he came to testify to the truth, and that this was the very reason he was born!

It’s really the message that Jesus died to bring, which is what saves a person. And he gave his life, so that we could come to know and find God, through his message.

God knows all things ahead of time, and knew that Jesus would be killed, for testifying to the truth, and yet God sent Jesus anyway, out of love for us. Jesus came to help save us from ourselves…because we reap, what we sow…

And because Jesus knew he would be killed, for bringing Gods message; it makes it, a modern day version, of the word sacrifice! i.e. putting your life on the line, for what you believe in, in order to help others, and not for any selfish reasons. A real sacrifice, whereby people come to know God, through Jesus teachings. This is the real point, behind why Jesus said…




John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.



When’s its looked at in this way, it becomes not about appeasing some wrathful entity, who wants to send you to Hell, for not accepting his blood sacrifice. Two concepts which were completely misunderstand IMO, and came only from men's traditions.

But is instead about God trying to get to know us, by teaching us, about how to find salvation through it, and by following it. And teaching about receiving the Holy Spirit, which is how one enters into a relationship with God. These are the things that Jesus died for, and they are what true salvation, is really all about.

That’s his grace, and that’s how Jesus truly died for us…IMO


- JC




posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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I totally agree, Jesus didn't die "for" our sins, he died "because" of them. He came to teach about love, forgiveness, and humility, not to sacrifice himself so that people would believe in his resurrection and be saved through that belief.

His message is what matters, not his death.


Matthew 9
13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."


He desired mercy, a.k.a. for others to love one another, not a sacrifice.


Mark 12
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”


Loving each other is more important than any sacrifice, meaning his message on love is what matters, not the sin sacrifice he supposedly made according to Christianity.

S&F



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


S&F

Excellent... but this truth will not sit well with the Christian community...

I've been saying it for years, its not his death that was important, it was his life and the message he brought to a messed up world.

The only thing I would disagree with is that God sent him...

I am more of the opinion that Jesus volunteered which is more like his character, but that's just me...




posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 05:08 PM
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Spot on with the explanation, pretty much the same conclusion I pondered on a while ago. With me it started as a question as to how a faith and belief in Jesus would mean a ticket into heaven?

Then I thought about the people who threw rocks at him on the cross, they only hated this man because they were told to believe it in a time where most people's beliefs came from the words of the ones they put their trust in... essentially, none of those people really were in control of themselves at that time or in the entirety of their life previously, they were all corralled with a sort of "mob rule" and lived their lives accordingly.

It is only until you face the instilled-ignorance of your own mind that you can really understand the life of Jesus and that's when you'd REALLY believe in it. Because let's not be shallow here, almost every traditional religion features the story of Jesus in different words and ways, but they all go back to this same point, that the understanding of what happened is what will ensure you don't take the wrong path in life. Again, bravo and S&F
edit on 6-2-2014 by doesntmakesense because: looks neatlyer



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


I think you are spot on here. This is also what I have come to believe. It would be a sick God that would send someone to save the world by being nailed to a cross. A loving God would, however, send Him to get the word out to His 'other children.' That He knew his mortal life would be taken from Him afterwards, was the price He was willing to pay.

Otherwise, why would He have needed to teach anything, if just believing He was born and died was what mattered. It is His message, The Way, that holds the key to salvation.

It really seems insulting to Jesus to revere the Cross and celebrate his crucifixion and death. Why should we be happy about Him being killed? If he'd been left alone, He could have brought a lot more people on board with The Way.



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 07:05 PM
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It really seems insulting to Jesus to revere the Cross and celebrate his crucifixion and death. Why should we be happy about Him being killed? If he'd been left alone, He could have brought a lot more people on board with The Way.


Naw, I really think it had to be that way. Remember that Jesus let himself be taken by the Romans, his disciples were more than willing to fight to the death for him, so I think he kind of knew that there was no way to unbrainwash the masses besides with much more time than the time his humanly body had left here on earth.

In fact, if he just ran away that night none of us would have ever heard his story, as him and his discples would've most likely been killed or forced into a life of hiding in the ensuing chase. It would seem that through his "illogical" act of giving up and the ensuing heartless actions of his aggressors that, in the end, really showed the kind of person Jesus was in life.

I really don't think it's about celebrating his death, but like more of understanding why it's important and accepting it as part of God's will, this is all my own intereperation though so please don't let it prevent you from making further introspections on the matter
edit on 6-2-2014 by doesntmakesense because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 08:04 PM
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IF the person we call Jesus really existed, and IF he 'signed up for' this particular life, or somewhere along the line was told by 'his father' that this was going to be the way it went down, and IF he then went ahead with it knowing the story line from beginning to end, then the 'sacrifice' wasn't much more than a few hours of torture, death like everyone else has to endure, and then eternity at the right hand of an all-powerful being, being worshiped by billions of people, for whatever thrills that gets ya...

Couldn't this point have been made several other ways, if you wanted to prove the reality of a god or human demi-divinity?

Weird, bizarre and sickening. And loaded with blood lust from some of the depictions of the crucifixion that I've seen.

There has to be something in the story that grabs people, makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and encourages them to wear a symbol of torture around their necks signifying that, but still.

Pretty strange way to show that you love everybody who ever was and ever will be, but only if they 'believe' in you and declare that belief, and then any bad actions or even nasty thoughts on their part will be nullified by the same sky guy who dreamed up this little passion play.

If it was up to YOU to prove the one true god's love for humanity, how would you go about it? By creating a kid designed to be a sacrificial lamb? By introducing the idea of martyrs into the lexicon? This particular god seems rather... vicious.



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 08:10 PM
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Yeah the whole death 'worship' if that's what you'd want to say, doesn't really sit well with me when it comes to Christianity.

I don't believe Jesus had some sort of death wish. He simply was going around saying things that would have been quite radical for the times, and would have gone against what was jiving at the time. And as a result, he died for it. Much like all kinds of people throughout history who have died trying to unite people, or were spreading very radical ideas for their time period. And let's face it, Jesus didn't die a horrible death. Sure, it was bad, but crazy amounts of people in history have died terrible deaths due to their beliefs. Some much worse than others. So, I don't think that aspect would make Jesus all that special IMO. Everyone has to die sometime. And it's not always pretty. It doesn't really give me more reason to believe. That is if he actually lived. I personally believe Jesus was more of a symbol rather than something that was real.



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 09:18 PM
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You know the real meaning?
This must mean you were there.



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by unb3k44n7
 


Jesus' words are there, if you read them then you will draw out the true meaning, especially if you drop any preconceived notions about him.



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 09:25 PM
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here is my issue with his death...
If he (Jesus Christ) died for all us sinners why is there still sin in the world ?
i am pretty sure we can all agree the world has become worse since his death so what was the point ?



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Just curious...

What is the Gospel? According to the teaching of the Bible, who is Jesus the Christ?

The analogy you gave above is unbiblical.

Isaiah 53:10 - “Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him...”

God ordained it.

www.gty.org...
edit on 6-2-2014 by VoiceInTheWilderness because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by technomage1
 

If he (Jesus Christ) died for all us sinners why is there still sin in the world ?
Seems not everyone has yet made the connection with Jesus that they need to do to resist evil properly.

i am pretty sure we can all agree the world has become worse since his death so what was the point ?
I don't agree. The ancient world worshiped evil as the way to go.



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Lingweenie
 

And let's face it, Jesus didn't die a horrible death. Sure, it was bad, but crazy amounts of people in history have died terrible deaths due to their beliefs. Some much worse than others.
Right but the idea is that this was a public official execution that was considered by the participants and observers as being a good and just thing.
It wasn't a black op where they were doing it in secret because of its questionable morality or lack of acceptance by the public.
edit on 6-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 10:45 PM
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I agree that the message is more important than the death scenario - for being non christian.

Although i do know that christianity has a firm hold on his death and resurrection as the defining moment that shapes the christian faith.

For example: The importance of his death is so - because he was supposedly a sinless man. A man that did not sin, yet was executed because of his teachings, thats the ultimate sacrifice. A man that was supposed to be god in the flesh, did not sin, yet died, for the sake of humanity for past, present and future generations. Thats the understanding of the basis for christianity.

So its all well and good saying its his teachings that was important - I too feel this way, but for christians its much more than that....its the whole process of birth from a virgin (IE Creation story personified, genesis etc... something from nothing)... did not sin through out his life, and died at the cross sinless....then was resurrected (I believe another personified story of creation somewhere) thats what captivates millions of christians....






posted on Feb, 6 2014 @ 11:20 PM
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jmdewey60
reply to post by Lingweenie
 

And let's face it, Jesus didn't die a horrible death. Sure, it was bad, but crazy amounts of people in history have died terrible deaths due to their beliefs. Some much worse than others.
Right but the idea is that this was a public official execution that was considered by the participants and observers as being a good and just thing.
It wasn't a black op where they were doing it in secret because of its questionable morality or lack of acceptance by the public.
edit on 6-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


I never said anything to the contrary.

Plenty of people have been murdered that were public figures. And plenty of people have been executed with people standing by and watching. People in the United States used to be hung out for all of the town folk to see. In France people would be beheaded in front of an audience. People used to be impaled in Eastern Europe in order for others to see, and it served as a scare tactic. There are many examples of this in many different times and countries.

All I was saying is that the way Jesus was said to have died really isn't very shocking. And it doesn't make me want to believe the religion any more than I already do. In other words, this event, real or not, wasn't really anything new or special. With that being said, I'm not some how encouraging it. Far from it.



posted on Feb, 7 2014 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


But is instead about God trying to get to know us, by teaching us, about how to find salvation through it, and by following it. And teaching about receiving the Holy Spirit, which is how one enters into a relationship with God. These are the things that Jesus died for, and they are what true salvation, is really all about.

Nice of him to have a change of heart.

Not so nice for all the men, women, and babies murdered from the global flood.

Let's not focus on the past I guess


I have a question. Might not be best aimed at you since it seemed in your post you were making a distinction between Jesus and God. To those that don't:

If Jesus and God are one and the same. If this god created the Universe and all within it. All knowing to everything to come.

Isn't it ultimately just god sacrificing himself to himself for the sin he himself created?

Joecroft I do have a question for you actually. Let's say your interpretation of Christ's sacrifice is best in the sense of being most accurate. It would be prudent for others to view it this way since salvation depends on it. Yet I believe the orthodox understanding of the sacrificial meaning is different. That's a big weight to carry for you knowing so many fellow Christians are potentially walking the wrong path. Here is my question. Shouldn't that weight be on god?

If as you say god seeks this relationship. Wants to give salvation. Most importantly, using your words, wants to teach us! Why is it an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving being hasn't come again to steer us back on track. Clarify the ambiguity that obviously exists within Christendom on scriptural interpretation [30,000+ Christian denominations]! Why doesn't he tonight? And tomorrow. And the next day. Again… all powerful, all present, all knowing. The capability is there. The motive is there as well. So why the complete absence? It doesn't at all appear to me as a teacher that wants to teach. Looks like a retired teacher enjoying retirement.

reply to post by jmdewey60
 



If he (Jesus Christ) died for all us sinners why is there still sin in the world ?

Seems not everyone has yet made the connection with Jesus that they need to do to resist evil properly.

Are you alluding that good moral action depends on a relationship with Christ? Meaning to say, a non-religious person can't be good. That's certainly how it read to me. I am quite capable of resisting 'evil' and I am strongly anti-religious. I know many others on this forum can vouch that of themselves and people they know.
edit on 7-2-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2014 @ 04:43 AM
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reply to post by technomage1
 


May answer some of your questions:

From the CCC

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

407 The doctrine of original sin, closely connected with that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man's situation and activity in the world. By our first parents' sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free. Original sin entails "captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil". Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action and morals.

408 The consequences of original sin and of all men's personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John's expression, "the sin of the world". This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men's sins.

409 This dramatic situation of "the whole world [which] is in the power of the evil one" makes man's life a battle



posted on Feb, 7 2014 @ 05:28 AM
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reply to post by Lingweenie
 

All I was saying is that the way Jesus was said to have died really isn't very shocking.
It should be "shocking" to us today, looking back at it with what we know now.
We should be horrified that the best man who ever lived was killed as a criminal, and that his killers and their supporters basically had a party while he was death, thinking that they now could go on being worshiped as the keepers of godliness and morality without any annoying itinerant do-gooders saying otherwise.
edit on 7-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2014 @ 05:43 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 

Are you alluding that good moral action depends on a relationship with Christ? Meaning to say, a non-religious person can't be good. That's certainly how it read to me. I am quite capable of resisting 'evil' and I am strongly anti-religious. I know many others on this forum can vouch that of themselves and people they know.
Anyone can take what by itself would be a " good moral action".
If that action is the result of God's spirit dwelling in us, that comes to us through Jesus, then that same spirit will at some future point cause us to enter into eternal life.
People in general who may not have a conscious religious belief, can do things in a moral sort of way as a result of the influence of people around them who do, and make a better culture where doing the right thing is the accepted norm of proper human behavior.





 
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