"Benefits Street" - Justifying cuts in welfare?

That would be the same as using Honey Boo Boo to increase education spending.

beezzer
That would be the same as using Honey Boo Boo to increase education spending.

Haha Breezer. Love the analogy .

Have a carrot

reply to post by teapot


The debt to GDP ratio is clearly not a concern for the markets, otherwise we'd have been rated junk by now.

Never the less, it isn't simply "debt" that is calculated in the figure. It includes all manner of things, including debt guarantees (used to help businesses and get the economy growing again), pensions liabilities and not to mention the huge wedge of cash used to prop up the banks.

You're also being disingenuous with the figures by simply stating last years GDP/Debt ratio without putting it into context. Between 2008-2010, the GDP/Debt ratio increased from 44% to 68% - up 24%, that's 1% GDP per calendar month!- in the last 3-4 years since the election, it has increased to 88% from 68%, so a slower increase and it is slowing even further, as between 2012-13 it only increased 7%.

If you actually look at it on a graph, it is forming a definite curve and it should begin to drop off come 17/18. That's not to say it won't take an age to pay back, but it is not exactly out of control either.

All is exactly as planned, anyway. It is certainly better than the alternative which is "tax and spend" which will only increase the GDP/Debt ratio, not reduce it.

EDIT: It is also worth noting that Japan has a debt to GDP ratio of 237% - not exactly much of a problem for them. Yes, their economy is a bit sticky, but hardly a disaster. The USA, as another example, is around 106%.

When are all (I include the rest of the World in all ) going to understand it's a play, a game and we're mere players . This is nothing knew . Divide and conquer has always been the mantra of the Elites . Do you think Obama ,Cameron and there likes do things because they think they're are the saviors of their respected countries ? Do you TRULY believe that Governments are elected by the electorate ?

Have you never heard of feat money , this a sham an illusion . If you want to move sheep in a certain direction , you don't move them yourself , they will move themselves if you put a dog in there guiding them . The Dogs are, the Police, TV , Radio , Advertizing , Money and all forms of mind control inputs .

These people were well chosen , not because they are on benefits . Because the masses have been control to despise people portrayed in this junk . People do what they do to survive and these people should be applauded for surviving this long on the streets . Mass mind control at it's best .

reply to post by adarma


I think you meant Fiat money and it's not a new revelation, chap. It's actually well documented not just here, but in any half-decent economics class....

But thanks anyway!

stumason
reply to post by adarma

 

I think you meant Fiat money and it's not a new revelation, chap. It's actually well documented not just here, but in any half-decent economics class....

But thanks anyway!

Thank you , you make my point .

teapot

destination now
reply to post by teapot

 

*It’s Christmas Day. You don’t do any jobsearch, because it’s Christmas Day. So you get sanctioned. For not looking to see if anyone has advertised a new job on Christmas Day. (source: Poverty Alliance)

*You get given the wrong forms, get sanctioned for not doing the right forms. (Source: Adventures in Workfare blog )

*You don’t apply for an IT job that needs skills you don’t have so you get sanctioned. (Source: Geminisnake on Urban75 forums )

*You retire on the grounds of ill health and claim ESA. You go to your assessment and during the assessment you have a heart attack, so the nurse says they have to stop the assessment. You get sanctioned for not withdrawing from your assessment (Source: Debbie Abrahams MP)

*You get a job, isn’t that great? The job doesn’t start for two weeks, so you don’t look for work in those two weeks, and get sanctioned for it. (Souce: The Guardian )falseeconomy.org.uk...

What utter drivel...You do realise that none of the above is true.

Nope, all of the above are real outcomes for real people who really experienced the ignominy of being penalised for the most spurious of reasons, as illustrated.

There is clearly more to all of those scenarios then...Believe me, if you had a heart attack at an ATOS assessment, you would be rushed to A&E by ambulance and be admitted to hospital. If you read the DWP guidelines, anyone in hospital automatically qualifies as having a limited capacity for work and is put on ESA (unless someone was faking a heart attack or thought they were having a heart attack and upon a full examination at A&E was found not to be having a heart attack, even then it would be unlikely they would be sanctioned unless it could be proved there was a deliberate attempt to deceive)

In fact, I have my own personal story, upon arriving for an assessment at an ATOS centre, I was told that they were running behind and I would have to wait for approx 1 hour, the room was exceptionally warm and as part of my medical condition means that I cannot control my body temperature after 10 mins I was overheating. The receptionist came over and asked if I was okay and when I explained my issue, she told me to go home and that a new appointment would be sent out to me. I was not sanctioned and was sent a letter with a new appointment for 5 weeks time. Not only did I continue to receive my money, but when I was declared unfit to work, I had the extra £30 a week backdated to the date of my original appointment, so I can assure you, the story about being sanctioned after having a heart attack at an ATOS centre and as such being unable to complete the assessment is BS

As for being sanctioned for not applying for a job you are not qualified for, that too I have personal experience of, as in my previous work history I have a lot of experience in providing training. However, I do not hold a teaching qualification or the D or A training units, and when my advisor showed me a job that required you to hold either of those qualifications, I told her that I didn't hold them and couldn't apply and she said "okay" and we moved onto the next available job...no sanctions, no problems, so yet again, I call BS on someone being sanctioned for not applying for a job they are not qualified to do.

As for the rest of it, I stand by my opinion, which is based on real-life knowledge, that no one gets sanctioned for the reasons you mentioned. Each of those scenarios will most certainly have other facts behind the sanctions, believe me!

NuclearPaul

SearchLightsInc
Its just not good enough to sanction someone's benefits for 3 months and tell them to get a job - Its irresponsible and fuel's crime/poverty.

I work up to 70 hours a week, and I don't believe that anyone should have their welfare benefits taken away, regardless if they want to work or not.

The reason being that I am a believer in human rights. If they want us to pay for our "human rights" such as food, water, shelter and clothing, it effectively means that they are working class privileges and not rights at all.

Those are only human rights insofar as you supply them for yourself. No one has the right anything that imposes an obligation on someone else to supply it for you. Otherwise, you believe in theft and/or slavery because as soon as you believe that anyone has the right to goods or services provided by others, those others are basically either robbed to provide those goods or services or enslaved to provide them.

The basic human right I believe in? The basic right to property. If you have provided your own food, clothing, shelter by whatever means, then you have every right to it.

reply to post by stumason





I think I love you!!

Forgive me for using common sense. How can this country always find money for war machines, yet somehow can't "afford" to feed its own people? This country is being sold to the highest bidder.

reply to post by Oannes


The defence budget is tiny in comparison to either the Welfare or NHS budget and I might have missed something, but I thought it was up to people to feed themselves, not the Government? Or are we back to the Roman period and the Grain Dole?

Quite why this is the go-to response when it has been clear for some time the whole Welfare system needed reform as it is already a colossal expense at well over £160 Billion, half of which on Pensions - this harks back to the guy earlier moaning the pension age is being increased, this is why, it is already a huge expense and will only get bigger.

eletheia
reply to post by stumason

 

I think I love you!!

Haha I love you too x See, I'm not as cold and heartless as some would have you believe

in light of the problem that 'obesity' is the fastest growing problem in this country

who is feeding all these penniless people?? ... or is this yet another government

conspiracy?

stumason
reply to post by Oannes

 

The defence budget is tiny in comparison to either the Welfare or NHS budget and I might have missed something, but I thought it was up to people to feed themselves, not the Government? Or are we back to the Roman period and the Grain Dole?

Quite why this is the go-to response when it has been clear for some time the whole Welfare system needed reform as it is already a colossal expense at well over £160 Billion, half of which on Pensions - this harks back to the guy earlier moaning the pension age is being increased, this is why, it is already a huge expense and will only get bigger.

eletheia
reply to post by stumason

 

I think your Avatar and answer demeanor tells us where you stand . It would make little difference what anyone would say about your comments . You clearly have been watching too much TV . Blessing on you for you need them more than most .

I think I love you!!

Haha

I love you too x See, I'm not as cold and heartless as some would have you believe

edit on 14/1/14 by stumason because: (no reason given)

There is only one form of welfare I'm concerned about. Corporate welfare. That's in the trillions of dollars and it's Legal!

I care not who makes the laws of any country , as long I have the control of their money system .

( Adam Weishaupt, born 1748-died 1830)

Visitor2012
There is only one form of welfare I'm concerned about. Corporate welfare. That's in the trillions of dollars and it's Legal!

edit on 14-1-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

Yes, and all a legitimate business expense to be off-set against tax, even the cost of jollies with the taxman!

These government departments and their subsidiaries that are each some UK PLC Ltd, also diddling the public purse as a legitimate cost of the business!

adarma
When are all (I include the rest of the World in all ) going to understand it's a play, a game and we're mere players . This is nothing knew . Divide and conquer has always been the mantra of the Elites . Do you think Obama ,Cameron and there likes do things because they think they're are the saviors of their respected countries ? Do you TRULY believe that Governments are elected by the electorate ?

Have you never heard of feat money , this a sham an illusion . If you want to move sheep in a certain direction , you don't move them yourself , they will move themselves if you put a dog in there guiding them . The Dogs are, the Police, TV , Radio , Advertizing , Money and all forms of mind control inputs .

These people were well chosen , not because they are on benefits . Because the masses have been control to despise people portrayed in this junk . People do what they do to survive and these people should be applauded for surviving this long on the streets . Mass mind control at it's best .

its on the news that c4 left out working people from the final cut,even though they filmed a working couple for 12 months. It is said that one of the workers is a benefit officer. So much for a fair and balanced view? I will not watch c4 again,ever.

reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse


To be fair, if you went into that programme honestly expecting it to be "balanced and fair", then you were the fool. I think it was quite clear, from C4's MO, they were trying to strike a nerve as they always do, such as with Dispatches.

reply to post by stumason


I watched the last episode of this programme and remembered visiting Birmingham as a kid in the back of my parent's car in the last 1950's. We drove past so many factories and the place was so busy. I thought it was the biggest City and workforce in the land.

What really gets me about this type of programme is that obviously we are supposed to take on board some kind of warning that this is the shape of things to come for many people. However had the UK followed country's like Germany's example with their unemployed, the UK would have invested in retraining people after they had been unemployed for 6 months. The training ranged from apprenticeships to university courses. I had a German student who wanted to improve his English as he had been a bricklayer, but become unemployed and the Government there was putting him through university to become something else where he knew he could get a decent job.

Our country has suffered major problems over the years which have creagted generation after generation of unemployed because of the policy that you may not retrain because if you do, (not that we are going to help you financially with retraining) you won't be available for work so you can't have any benefit. It is almost as though that policy was deliberate in that it allowed people to come into this country from abroad to fill the jobs, Brits could have had, had they been given retraining. Not everyone would retrain but it would have weeded out those who did want to sit on their buts.

Its also often forgotten that we don't only have the European open door that's now ajar but we also have a huge Commonwealth that has encouraged people to come here from outside the EU and surely our Government should have realized that with all the will in the world, there is a job saturation point and I suspect we are well past it now, unless we demand China gives us back some of the manufacturing contracts that the business elite took abroad years ago, shunning British labour costs for a higher profit margin due to lower overheads.

stumason
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

To be fair, if you went into that programme honestly expecting it to be "balanced and fair", then you were the fool. I think it was quite clear, from C4's MO, they were trying to strike a nerve as they always do, such as with Dispatches.

well channel 4 has responded to the revelation my holding a live debate after the last episode. So to be fair everyone complaining must be fools in your eyes.
All documentaries are supposed to be balanced and fair. If only everyone had your insight and forward thinking to have prior knowledge in which programs will be "balanced and fair" then that will solve a lot of confusion. Can you give me a run down of which future documentaries will be "balanced and fair"
Honestly to be fair if you think you are the great all knower then you are the fool.