The Deeper Side of Fighting

onequestion
reply to post by BDBinc

 

Its massively different. For one we both trained professionals. The difference is when you get ready for a fight most of the fighting takes place deep within you. Its mostly you fighting yourself. Its about overcoming odds and digging deep.

But you are both fighting for money and ego/prestige. The difference for kids fighting VS professional is only the money( and the amount of times they scrap/ experience).
Why is it good for you and not good to teach kids to fight and hurt each other?
Is it just the money they need= experienced kids cage fighting for money would be socially acceptable ?
Its the same with Kids, one kid's will is stronger even though he may not be stronger he can still "win" the scrap. mind over matter. Once you know this why repeat the lesson.

What obstacle is overcome by hitting another man?

I still don't know the point of "you fighting yourself".
What idea of yourself do you project onto the man you are hitting?
Don't you love yourself?
Why are you not in peace with yourself?

The question everyone is wondering...will Silva return?
Haha

Good post, man. I have always been drawn to the martial arts as a form of expression more so than a means to beat someone up. The Eastern practices like Wu Shu and Wing Chun are particularly graceful and, well, like poetry in motion.

When I joined the service I fell in love with BJJ. Even the ground and pound style is poetic. When you begin to learn the finer points of what those dudes are doing rolling around on the ground you begin to see a lot of grace in it.

I dunno if that is a warrior spirit so much as it is a desire to prove one's self athletically to one's self, but I like it. Its fun. Even the getting knocked out part.

Its always interesting to watch two dudes battle hard as hell for a half hour or so, see one guy get knocked out, and then get up and hug his aggressor. Its not for everyone, but those who do it, "get it."

Good thread. S&F

I used to be quite active in Muay Thai, and witnessed the gym's fighters preparing for war. The mental side is what makes or breaks a fighter, and as such is just as important, if not more-so, than one's physical ability.

What i particularly enjoyed about Muay Thai was the spiritual side which has its roots in the ancient days. Real deep stuff which deserves more respect and recognition in the modern fighting sphere, in my opinion.

I do not practice these things myself, but have long been able to perceive the deeper spiritual lessons that can lie within them.
When I was young I tried boxing for a while, and did Karate for a few years. The boxing I quit the day I had my first real match and I exploded the nose of another girl. I was horrified at what I'd done, even if I had won. The karate I liked more but did not have the means to continue. But I was very afraid of my own force, and it probably would have been a good thing to learn mastery of it and overcome my fear of myself.

Later my discipline of choice became horsemanship, and I have to restrain myself from using equitation analogies all the time to illustrate spiritual or psychological dynamics (because not everyone gets how that is deep either).

I think that many disciplines hold lots of deeper meaning and opportunity for spiritual growth... even activities like gardening and washing the dishes have been profound moments for me! Enough so that I have gotten very close, many times to pointing out to those who are always posting those "the world will ascend to a higher frquency/dimension on this date..." threads that maybe, all those dimensions and "frequencies" exist right now, and it a persons consciousness just ascends in terms of perception! Like at any moment, many are experiencing whole other levels of reality that others do not at all. They may both be do doing dishes.

Wax on wax off and all that- thanks for sharing your particular path!

Bluesma
I do not practice these things myself, but have long been able to perceive the deeper spiritual lessons that can lie within them.
When I was young I tried boxing for a while, and did Karate for a few years. The boxing I quit the day I had my first real match and I exploded the nose of another girl. I was horrified at what I'd done, even if I had won. The karate I liked more but did not have the means to continue. But I was very afraid of my own force, and it probably would have been a good thing to learn mastery of it and overcome my fear of myself.

If you ever wanted to get back into martial arts, you could try Aikido. Aikido is said to be the marital art of peace, as practitioners don't tend to use force, or harm their opponent. Rather, they use the opponent's momentum and energy in an attempt to incapacitate them without deadly force.

Later my discipline of choice became horsemanship, and I have to restrain myself from using equitation analogies all the time to illustrate spiritual or psychological dynamics (because not everyone gets how that is deep either).

Maybe a lot of them get confused as well, lol.

I think that many disciplines hold lots of deeper meaning and opportunity for spiritual growth... even activities like gardening and washing the dishes have been profound moments for me! Enough so that I have gotten very close, many times to pointing out to those who are always posting those "the world will ascend to a higher frquency/dimension on this date..." threads that maybe, all those dimensions and "frequencies" exist right now, and it a persons consciousness just ascends in terms of perception! Like at any moment, many are experiencing whole other levels of reality that others do not at all. They may both be do doing dishes.

Wax on wax off and all that- thanks for sharing your particular path!

Agreed!

well said sir.

first of all i must say

In my opinion any one who steps in the ring/cage/mats is already a winner

An organised, prearranged contest against a well trained, practised and conditioned fighter

Who has spent at least the last two months preparing physically and mentally to fight you

Is a massively different proposal to dealing with your average bully/mugger or drunken idiot in the real world.

I myself have studied various martial arts for 40 years and when i was younger i had my fair share of fights under a few different sets of rules

As such i must agree with you

I have never felt as calm or connected with my environment as when i am fighting or involved in a serious sparing session

And yes, as some one who has a mind which wanders, it's the closest i can get to a state of meditation.

I would advise most people to give it a try as just the training alone teaches you a lot about your self

I also find that regular intensive training/sparring helps to calm me down in normal daily life, in the last 15/20 years i can count on one hand the times i have been forced to fight in the real world.

reply to post by onequestion


i didn't know you were a bada55!
but yeah i agree with you.
no mind and no fear could make us unpredictable to our 'opponents'

peace

reply to post by onequestion


Great Post OP! Thank you for sharing your side of the Martial arts world.
With loosing, When I was activley entering in Shotokan Karate Tournements when I was younger, I LOVED loosing a fight. Mostly from my Sensei constantly teaching me how if beaten, I would learn and grow. By learning my mistakes and downfalls in any fight lost caused me to always improove and push harder than before. Also the passion in the tournements was spectacular. Every fighter had a unique gift of trait and being on a small island we all knew who could do what and what weaknesses they had, Such as a dodgy left knee. Which you would think knowing that was an advantage but we were always trained to not go for the weak points in this way as it is against what we were there for... To compete to show our talents and ability to combine mind and body. Not saying the old phrase 'taking part is the main thing' After all the main doctorin of Shotokan was to win with a single blow and our fights wouldnt last more than a few minutes either way before a knockout. But the spiritual side was well based and I can never regret those years and all that has made me today from the teachings. Many thanks again S&.........Sorry still new here and still quite unsure how the 'flags' work or how to give one>!

reply to post by onequestion



Firstly, awesome thread S+F

I think most people, like you said in your OP, just see two people fighting in a barbaric fashion, without realizing the amount of hard work, training, dedication, mental discipline and sacrifice, that goes into it, long before anyone even steps into the ring, or octagon etc…

The first martial arts I ever learned was Wing Chun, when I was much younger, and much later I studied jiu jitsu, but I don’t practice those arts anymore. Although I do consider myself to be spiritual warrior…

I also used to play chess at a fairly high level, which can be very mentally and physically draining, as crazy as that may sound.

But I think like all one on one sports, like MMA, fencing, chess, tennis etc…you have to prepare both physically and mentally, and the psychological aspect to those sports, is far greater, than most other sports, because your essentially on your own out there, and only have yourself to blame, if you make mistakes etc…

People have constant debates here on ATS, but they are really just sparring with each other in a contemplative manner, in order to help improve themselves and their perspective/technique. And the same is true when you spar with other opponents, in other fields, because IMO “your opponent is your guide to the truth”. Which is just another way of saying your opponents, (depending on his skill level) push you to learn, adapt and improve.

And it’s also as much a battle of the mind, as it is the physical training of the body IMO. And I know from playing chess, that if you’re not psychologically stable in your mind, it has an outward detrimental affect on your performance, even if you’re a greater fighter/player, than your opponent is… So staying spiritually and mentally grounded, is really important, in connection to performing well…

I think any endeavour or pursuit of excellence, requires constant practice and preparation. When you are constantly eating, drinking and sleeping, the theory and practice of your chosen endeavour, you are really in a constant form of meditation and contemplation throughout it. It also helps you to home in on the small things, which can sometimes be the difference between improvement, or no improvement at all…So yeah, I would say there’s definitely a spiritual side to studying martial arts.


Anyway, sorry for rambling on…

My hat goes off to anyone, who has the dedication to put there mind and body through such rigorous training, and then has the guts to put those skills to the test, in a ring or octagon.

Good luck in your future bouts…


- JC

onequestion
We often hear about fighters who can't or won't quit, like Bernard Hopkins who recently fought at 47 years old.

Enjoy ATS.

edit on 12-1-2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-1-2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

Muay Thai a little over 20 years and women's boxing about 10 or 11 years. Im in my late 40's now and there is no quitting until Im truly physically incapable. We all have layers and one of my layers is the need for intense physical competitiveness and I cant imagine living a life without it. Its my drug and my cure. I understand older fighters or injured fighers going off the rails.. when your center ( in this case.. fighting) is taken from you, its very very hard to deal with. Im having issues right now due to an injury preventing me from doing what I want. If I had the prospect of it being taken from me completely.. I am not sure what I would do really, even though I know that time is coming sooner rather than later.

reply to post by onequestion


I think most sport athletes can connect with what your saying... even from teachers, musicians, scholars to students in a college etc... They all have the same training grounds as you, it sits between our ears...

reply to post by Joecroft

People have constant debates here on ATS, but they are really just sparring with each other in a contemplative manner, in order to help improve themselves and their perspective/technique. And the same is true when you spar with other opponents, in other fields, because IMO “your opponent is your guide to the truth”. Which is just another way of saying your opponents, (depending on his skill level) push you to learn, adapt and improve.

Good point. You opponent is your guide to the truth. Really, thats an interesting view and i agree with it. Actually i am contemplating it as well.

And it’s also as much a battle of the mind, as it is the physical training of the body IMO. And I know from playing chess, that if you’re not psychologically stable in your mind, it has an outward detrimental affect on your performance, even if you’re a greater fighter/player, than your opponent is… So staying spiritually and mentally grounded, is really important, in connection to performing well…

Very true.

reply to post by Advantage


Agreed. I dont know how to live my life without being focus'd on training. Its actually starting to become a problem because my entire adult life has been dedicated to fighting and now that im 28, im starting realize the mistakes i made as a young fighter not pursuing an education or alternative career path. I always though it wouldnt be necessary but damn, i was wrong.

reply to post by marvinthemartian

And yes, as some one who has a mind which wanders, it's the closest i can get to a state of meditation.

Ive been contending for years since ive started meditation that the deepest state of focus i have ever achieved has been in the ring in front of a crowd and its true. That doesnt take away from meditating normally but what i am saying is that its another way of achieving what i call stasis.

reply to post by daaskapital


I have no experience with aikido but i know that every martial art has something to offer its just what you take out of it. To me martial arts are a deeper form of philosophy, almost religious. I see the martial arts as a form of spiritual practice.

I have never been test in church like i have been in the ring.

onequestion
reply to post by Advantage

 

Agreed. I dont know how to live my life without being focus'd on training. Its actually starting to become a problem because my entire adult life has been dedicated to fighting and now that im 28, im starting realize the mistakes i made as a young fighter not pursuing an education or alternative career path. I always though it wouldnt be necessary but damn, i was wrong.

Youre only 28.. no time like the present. IMO what you decided wasnt exactly a mistake... the only mistake you may make is not heeding your own internal voice that is telling you to put MORE on your plate and pursue a career. I was in my 20's when I first started with Muay... and still finished my degree. Managed to have a family and do all sorts of interesting things along with the sport. I DO realize it is different for women... but I say make your life plan for a career because training/fighting is just a way of life. Regardeless of your career or job or lack of one, you will likely never abandon the fight because its YOU. I know this well. You can layer the 2 like other people do with career and religion or whatever is "them" inside.

reply to post by JayinAR

The question everyone is wondering...will Silva return?

My answer is no and heres why;

First he got knocked out, then in his next fight he broke his leg. If you watch the fight carefully he is very apprehensive. Typically coaches give their fighters 6-12 months to recover and build confidence back up. The reason i think hes not coming back is because he has 6 months off, after that six months he has to retrain and get back in shape and let me tell you something. Training after 6 months off with a debilitating injury is no joke. Hes going to have to overcome a lot of stepping stones to get back into the groove with his jiu jitsu and striking. I dont think hes going to have the heart to do it to be honest.

When I joined the service I fell in love with BJJ. Even the ground and pound style is poetic. When you begin to learn the finer points of what those dudes are doing rolling around on the ground you begin to see a lot of grace in it.

BJJ is easy to fall in love with. Its very creative and it really puts your mind to the test. The cool thing is, unlike wrestling it requires a lot of planning and patience to really excel.

Violence in sporting events are inherent to sports. Children mimicking behavior that adults engage in after having spent years of training is common.

Even in animals young ones learn to defend themselves with the tools they have, towards a time when they will have to engage in combat themselves as adults.

Combat is a part of real life one can certainly isolate themselves from it today in relation to lifestyle choices. But that does not change that fact that conditions can change, where individuals who are not inclined towards combat will not survive.

One Question, in my Martial Arts training, meditating from the perspective of the common form, it is a part of developing you focus.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Kashai

One Question, in my Martial Arts training, meditating from the perspective of the common form, it is a part of developing you focus.

Any thoughts?

Oh it can be. I have high levels of focus but it can help. Its different too. Having to focus with your body still is different then using your body too focus. Maybe im not explaining that right but give it a shot.

onequestion
reply to post by JayinAR

 

The question everyone is wondering...will Silva return?

My answer is no and heres why;

First he got knocked out, then in his next fight he broke his leg. If you watch the fight carefully he is very apprehensive. Typically coaches give their fighters 6-12 months to recover and build confidence back up. The reason i think hes not coming back is because he has 6 months off, after that six months he has to retrain and get back in shape and let me tell you something. Training after 6 months off with a debilitating injury is no joke. Hes going to have to overcome a lot of stepping stones to get back into the groove with his jiu jitsu and striking. I dont think hes going to have the heart to do it to be honest.

When I joined the service I fell in love with BJJ. Even the ground and pound style is poetic. When you begin to learn the finer points of what those dudes are doing rolling around on the ground you begin to see a lot of grace in it.

BJJ is easy to fall in love with. Its very creative and it really puts your mind to the test. The cool thing is, unlike wrestling it requires a lot of planning and patience to really excel.

Not to mention that his leg may not even hold up. That was a gruesome injury. Plus he has been talking about retirement for years now.

The only thing I could see bringing him back is the desire to go out on better terms.
Its a shame to see the greatest fighter in the world go out like that

But if he did come back I am certain he could reclaim the title. Even with the long sit. He is that damn good.