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Global Warming. Hotter Summers = Colder Winters. GET IT>>??

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posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 08:25 AM
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AccessDenied
I believe the climate has been changing on this planet since it began. It ebbs and flows,freezes and melts. What I refuse to believe,is that man or anything he has done in the last 200 years has hastened a naturally occuring cycle.


That is the laziest copout of them all.

What drives the natural cycles?




posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 08:27 AM
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bobs_uruncle

canucks555

DeepVisions
reply to post by canucks555
 


So you're saying the polar ice is melting?


Global average temperatures are going up. Fact.


edit on 8-1-2014 by canucks555 because: (no reason given)


If it's a fact why did the IPCC, Al Gore and other promoters of the Church of AGW have to commit fraud and/or fudge numbers to get their point across? Go into court sometime and try and prove a point based on real factual physics, you'll find that the judge is able to change reality. We are going into an ice-age, cold is a lot more persistent than heat. I imagine you've seen glaciers before.

Cheers - Dave



This is where skeptics get really, really, sad.


The IPCC scandal was nothing more than skeptics cherry picking information and trying to present it as a scandal. And this was debunked years ago.

the fact that skeptics keep bringing this up, even though it was debunked years ago, shows that skeptics are so intent on hanging onto their beliefs, that they refuse to learn any new information.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 08:34 AM
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xuenchen
What caused this.....

Little Ice Age (1350 - 1850)


The Little Ice Age (LIA) was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period (Medieval Climate Optimum).[1] While it was not a true ice age, the term was introduced into the scientific literature by François E. Matthes in 1939.[2] It has been conventionally defined as a period extending from the sixteenth to the nineteenth centuries,[3][4][5] or alternatively, from about 1350 to about 1850,[6] though climatologists and historians working with local records no longer expect to agree on either the start or end dates of this period, which varied according to local conditions. NASA defines the term as a cold period between AD 1550 and 1850 and notes three particularly cold intervals: one beginning about 1650, another about 1770, and the last in 1850, each separated by intervals of slight warming.[7] The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Third Assessment Report considered the timing and areas affected by the LIA suggested largely independent regional climate changes, rather than a globally synchronous increased glaciation. At most there was modest cooling of the Northern Hemisphere during the period.[8]

Several causes have been proposed: cyclical lows in solar radiation, heightened volcanic activity, changes in the ocean circulation, an inherent variability in global climate, or decreases in the human population.





No such thing as a "little ice age". It was a cooling period for Europe.

Research came out last year that it was found that there were four large volcanic eruptions right before the cooling period for Europe, started.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 08:38 AM
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RedmoonMWC
reply to post by canucks555
 


I am not saying that humanity has no effect on this planet, and I wholly agree that we need to stop the destruction of the rain forests, and minimize polution.

I am, however saying that this planet, like all of the other planets in the solar system go through cyclical weather changes. To blame climet change solely on humanity is as dumb as saying that humanity has no effect at all.



Cyclical, abrupt and dramatic global and regional temperature fluctuations have occurred over millions of years. Many natural factors are known to contribute to these changes, although even the most sophisticated climate models and theories they are based on cannot predict the timing, scale (either up or down), or future impacts- much less the marginal contributions of various human influences.

While global warming has been trumpeted as an epic climate change crisis with human-produced CO2, a trace atmospheric “greenhouse gas” branded as a primary culprit and endangering “pollutant,” remember that throughout earlier periods of Earth’s history CO2 levels have been between four and eighteen times higher than now, with temperature changes preceding, not following atmospheric CO2 changes.

www.forbes.com...

There is no doubt that some on the global warming issue have finances influencing their actions.
There is no doubt that some of the global warming 'debunkers' have financial reasons for their actions.





Professor Anastasios Tsonis, of the University of Wisconsin, said: “We are already in a cooling trend, which I think will continue for the next 15 years at least. There is no doubt the warming of the 1980s and 1990s has stopped.”

Experts from across the scientific spectrum accept that temperatures have levelled off and Britain’s Meteorological Office has produced three reports on the subject.

In July, one of the studies by the Met Office’s Hadley Centre, in Exeter, said: “Global mean surface temperatures rose rapidly from the 1970s.

“But there has been little ­further warming over the most recent 10 to 15 years to 2013. This has prompted speculation that human-induced global warming is no longer ­happening, or at least will be much smaller than predicted.”

www.express.co.uk...



The question that skeptics never answer:

What drives the natural cycles?



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 08:50 AM
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beezzer
reply to post by canucks555
 


OP?

I've looked (and couldn't find) average yearly temps going back 5,000 years, or 50,000 years. I did find the "hockey stick" chart that was proven false, but have not found anything that would indicate that temperature extremes are occurring.

I want to put this at a geological scale.

Finding something of that nature that would indicate that this is indeed, man-made, would go a long way of convincing the skeptics.


Never mind!

Found it!


edit on 8-1-2014 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



Again, skeptics need to update their info instead of using the same arguments for a decade.

The NCAR did an independent research on the hockey stick and found that other than a few numbers wrong in the early 15th century, it was accurate.



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 08:51 AM
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Hoosierdaddy71
If liberals want to be taken seriously about global warming they need to put a muzzle on people like al gore. He declares that the ice caps will be gone by now and they get bigger. He says reduce our carbon footprint, then lives in a house thats bigger than the high school I went to.
How about Leo decaprio, he buys an electric car.. At $100k no less.. To be green. Then he buys a ticket to space on a private spaceship. How much carbon is he blowing into the atmosphere for that little joy ride?
They gotta start practicing what they preach..



only skeptics are obsessed with Al Gore. No one else is. Because it is the only strawman argument you got.

Funny how skeptics always rattle on about freedom, but when it comes to GW, they are suddenly pouncing on people for making their own, personal decisions with how they spend their money. They hypocrisy is amazing!



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 09:14 AM
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Humans having no impact on the earth is the dumbest thing to come out of a conservatives mouth. Sadly many speak it. It just further proves that they make everything politics and hate anything new(which includes education).

So much for not taking responsibility for your action.

"Everyone is responsible for their actions, expect when it comes to earth".
"pro life but anti-environment"
The irony.

Please come back to me when plastics magical decomposes, then i will take your "man has no impact on earth theory" seriously.


edit on 1/10/2014 by luciddream because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


According to GW, higher CO2 lead to higher temperature due to the greenhouse effect. This will in turn cause hurricanes to be more abundant.

Then... How come the CO2 level rise in the 1940s resulted in a small cooling? And how come global temperatures then went back up, then hasn't gone up since 17 years now? And how come we have less hurricanes per year then a decade ago?


edit on 10-1-2014 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 11:22 AM
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nixie_nox

bobs_uruncle

canucks555

DeepVisions
reply to post by canucks555
 


So you're saying the polar ice is melting?


Global average temperatures are going up. Fact.


edit on 8-1-2014 by canucks555 because: (no reason given)


If it's a fact why did the IPCC, Al Gore and other promoters of the Church of AGW have to commit fraud and/or fudge numbers to get their point across? Go into court sometime and try and prove a point based on real factual physics, you'll find that the judge is able to change reality. We are going into an ice-age, cold is a lot more persistent than heat. I imagine you've seen glaciers before.

Cheers - Dave



This is where skeptics get really, really, sad.


The IPCC scandal was nothing more than skeptics cherry picking information and trying to present it as a scandal. And this was debunked years ago.

the fact that skeptics keep bringing this up, even though it was debunked years ago, shows that skeptics are so intent on hanging onto their beliefs, that they refuse to learn any new information.


Seriously, you are going to run with that? I've written a few threads on this and even if you use simple logic and critical thinking, can you explain to me how throwing money through additional taxation is going to fix a problem that we do not have the technology or resource capability to fix?

Sure, we have climate change, it's extreme, it has the appearance of a dysfunctional system and the trending is remaining somewhat the same, but in the end the system will fail to its ground state, its equalization point. Since the geological history of the past couple of million years shows an average of about 90% ice age and 10% temperate periods, it's common sense, logical and evidenced that the ground state is an ice age.

As far as mankind being the root cause of this mess, you give us far too much credit. Look at the sun and interstellar space as they are the greatest contributors (99.9%) of thermal transfer in the solar system and of course on earth. But maybe we should send Al Gore to Mars or Jupiter since they are also experiencing huge changes in their climates. I guess the PC crowd still thinks SUV's and cow farts drive weather in the solar system, it has apparently been a very good propaganda exercise for the church of AGW. Kind of reminds me of the mandela-is-a-hero-BS and that propaganda campaign.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 11:30 AM
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nixie_nox

beezzer
reply to post by canucks555
 


OP?

I've looked (and couldn't find) average yearly temps going back 5,000 years, or 50,000 years. I did find the "hockey stick" chart that was proven false, but have not found anything that would indicate that temperature extremes are occurring.

I want to put this at a geological scale.

Finding something of that nature that would indicate that this is indeed, man-made, would go a long way of convincing the skeptics.


Never mind!

Found it!


edit on 8-1-2014 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



Again, skeptics need to update their info instead of using the same arguments for a decade.

The NCAR did an independent research on the hockey stick and found that other than a few numbers wrong in the early 15th century, it was accurate.


Independent? Ok, so they had their own money for the research, they had no association with universities or colleges or academia, they had no interaction whatsoever with governments or BS organizations like the UN or IPCC, they never received any grants of any kind from anywhere and they did this because they were bored or out of altruistic concern.

There is nothing independent in this world and there is no one with total objectivity. Everyone is connected at some level. Next lousy point you want to push so I can knock that one down as well (but I don't want to make it habit LOL)?

Cheers - Dave



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by canucks555
 




I refer you to the thread title, your words.

GLOBAL WARMING. HOTTER SUMMERS = COLDER WINTERS. GET IT?

Then, when we have a nice unseasonably warm winter, you puff yourself up with more biased proof that you are right?

Only a megalomaniac wants it both ways.

What is this, heads you win, tails, we lose?

Get a grip.

# 122



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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swanne
reply to post by nixie_nox
 



According to GW, higher CO2 lead to higher temperature due to the greenhouse effect. This will in turn cause hurricanes to be more abundant.


Ok?

Specifically, it is an average increase of intensity across all basins up too 11%.


Then... How come the CO2 level rise in the 1940s resulted in a small cooling?


It wasn't CO2 it was sulfate aerosol emissions from both post WWII industry and volcanic activity that caused the dip. It is completely irrelevant regarding global warming.

But they only affect day time temperatures. So though the aerosols caused a dip of daylight temperatures, night time temperatures continued to rise throughout the period.


And how come global temperatures then went back up,


See previous explanation, they have gone steadily up and is irrelevant.


then hasn't gone up since 17 years now?


This is information that skeptics misconstrued, once again, and have run with it and it just won't die. In the past 15 years, it never stopped, it never cooled. It was because of el nino or la nina that the warming wasn't as much as previously indicated. But that is also only considered temporary.


And how come we have less hurricanes per year then a decade ago?


Really? Because NOAA reports that 70% of seasons for the past decade were above average activity.


edit on 10-1-2014 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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bobs_uruncle

nixie_nox

bobs_uruncle

canucks555

DeepVisions
reply to post by canucks555
 


So you're saying the polar ice is melting?


Global average temperatures are going up. Fact.


edit on 8-1-2014 by canucks555 because: (no reason given)


If it's a fact why did the IPCC, Al Gore and other promoters of the Church of AGW have to commit fraud and/or fudge numbers to get their point across? Go into court sometime and try and prove a point based on real factual physics, you'll find that the judge is able to change reality. We are going into an ice-age, cold is a lot more persistent than heat. I imagine you've seen glaciers before.

Cheers - Dave



This is where skeptics get really, really, sad.


The IPCC scandal was nothing more than skeptics cherry picking information and trying to present it as a scandal. And this was debunked years ago.

the fact that skeptics keep bringing this up, even though it was debunked years ago, shows that skeptics are so intent on hanging onto their beliefs, that they refuse to learn any new information.


Seriously, you are going to run with that? I've written a few threads on this and even if you use simple logic and critical thinking, can you explain to me how throwing money through additional taxation is going to fix a problem that we do not have the technology or resource capability to fix?

Sure, we have climate change, it's extreme, it has the appearance of a dysfunctional system and the trending is remaining somewhat the same, but in the end the system will fail to its ground state, its equalization point. Since the geological history of the past couple of million years shows an average of about 90% ice age and 10% temperate periods, it's common sense, logical and evidenced that the ground state is an ice age.

As far as mankind being the root cause of this mess, you give us far too much credit. Look at the sun and interstellar space as they are the greatest contributors (99.9%) of thermal transfer in the solar system and of course on earth. But maybe we should send Al Gore to Mars or Jupiter since they are also experiencing huge changes in their climates. I guess the PC crowd still thinks SUV's and cow farts drive weather in the solar system, it has apparently been a very good propaganda exercise for the church of AGW. Kind of reminds me of the mandela-is-a-hero-BS and that propaganda campaign.

Cheers - Dave



reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


*laughs*

Skeptics are so predictable. Still can't avoid using Al Gore even after being made fun of for it.

And also after poking fun for using the same exact arguments, you use the same ol same ol tired "its the sun" skeptic argument.

Jupiter is over five times further from the sun than Earth. If the Sun was "warming up" (though it is actually cooling, double debunk!) to warm up Jupiter, than the Earth would be a whole heck of a lot warmer than it is.

The Earth doesn't "equalize" itself. The cycles are determined by rotation, axis, and orbit, so is therefor pretty specific and predictable till something forces the climate. We are actually in the point in the cycle where the Earth should begin its cooling orbit, not warming.

Anyone who thinks that humans can't affect the planet are sadly deluding themselves. The Chinese built a dam that displaced so much water that it is causing earthquakes.

A few cowboys with simple firearms decimated millions of buffalo and caused to associative species to go extinct.

There is a mine in Idaho that is much larger than Meteor Crater, which was created by a 100ft. crashing meteor.

1/4 of the rivers on the planet now run dry before ever making it to the ocean.

The question is more like: what AREN'T we doing to screw up the planet?



posted on Jan, 10 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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nixie_nox

bobs_uruncle

nixie_nox

bobs_uruncle

canucks555

DeepVisions
reply to post by canucks555
 


So you're saying the polar ice is melting?


Global average temperatures are going up. Fact.


edit on 8-1-2014 by canucks555 because: (no reason given)


If it's a fact why did the IPCC, Al Gore and other promoters of the Church of AGW have to commit fraud and/or fudge numbers to get their point across? Go into court sometime and try and prove a point based on real factual physics, you'll find that the judge is able to change reality. We are going into an ice-age, cold is a lot more persistent than heat. I imagine you've seen glaciers before.

Cheers - Dave



This is where skeptics get really, really, sad.


The IPCC scandal was nothing more than skeptics cherry picking information and trying to present it as a scandal. And this was debunked years ago.

the fact that skeptics keep bringing this up, even though it was debunked years ago, shows that skeptics are so intent on hanging onto their beliefs, that they refuse to learn any new information.


Seriously, you are going to run with that? I've written a few threads on this and even if you use simple logic and critical thinking, can you explain to me how throwing money through additional taxation is going to fix a problem that we do not have the technology or resource capability to fix?

Sure, we have climate change, it's extreme, it has the appearance of a dysfunctional system and the trending is remaining somewhat the same, but in the end the system will fail to its ground state, its equalization point. Since the geological history of the past couple of million years shows an average of about 90% ice age and 10% temperate periods, it's common sense, logical and evidenced that the ground state is an ice age.

As far as mankind being the root cause of this mess, you give us far too much credit. Look at the sun and interstellar space as they are the greatest contributors (99.9%) of thermal transfer in the solar system and of course on earth. But maybe we should send Al Gore to Mars or Jupiter since they are also experiencing huge changes in their climates. I guess the PC crowd still thinks SUV's and cow farts drive weather in the solar system, it has apparently been a very good propaganda exercise for the church of AGW. Kind of reminds me of the mandela-is-a-hero-BS and that propaganda campaign.

Cheers - Dave



reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


*laughs*

Skeptics are so predictable. Still can't avoid using Al Gore even after being made fun of for it.

And also after poking fun for using the same exact arguments, you use the same ol same ol tired "its the sun" skeptic argument.

Jupiter is over five times further from the sun than Earth. If the Sun was "warming up" (though it is actually cooling, double debunk!) to warm up Jupiter, than the Earth would be a whole heck of a lot warmer than it is.


Jupiter is 50 times larger than earth it collects more light than we do, of course distance will decrease the amount of light as well. But hmmmm, where did that red spot go and the bands?


The Earth doesn't "equalize" itself. The cycles are determined by rotation, axis, and orbit, so is therefor pretty specific and predictable till something forces the climate. We are actually in the point in the cycle where the Earth should begin its cooling orbit, not warming.


Yes, the earth will equalize itself, seems to me the geological record has shown it happening more than a dozen times.


Anyone who thinks that humans can't affect the planet are sadly deluding themselves. The Chinese built a dam that displaced so much water that it is causing earthquakes.

A few cowboys with simple firearms decimated millions of buffalo and caused to associative species to go extinct.

There is a mine in Idaho that is much larger than Meteor Crater, which was created by a 100ft. crashing meteor.

1/4 of the rivers on the planet now run dry before ever making it to the ocean.

The question is more like: what AREN'T we doing to screw up the planet?


No one is disagreeing that we aren't doing things to the planet or helping species to go extinct. My only point is that the upcoming ice age is a natural construct predicted by natural cycles shown in the geological record. Does it take 10k or 12k years for civilizations to reach a point where we become more self-aware and technological enough to realize what is going on and the ice age starts again, coincidental, maybe.

The ONLY forces powerful enough to radically change our weather would be the Sun and changes in interstellar/intrasolar thermal conductivity (which requires traveling through a nebula which NASA -not that I trust them much- stated a few years ago was actually beginning and that news disappeared fast) or thermal transfer via global geothermal sources. I can just see a bunch of the politician's handlers sitting around a board room table and saying, "How can we spin this to take more out of these sucker's pockets?" and of course coming up with AGW (after the 70's when all the noise was about an ice age coming) is that solution. Global catastrophe but let's tell the people it's global warming rather than an ice age so they prepare the wrong way and leave the equator open for us ;-)

Nothing is real, we live in a virtual reality, you can't even trust what you see or hear because you always see or hear it after it happens, which makes written history rather ridiculous. If we are heading for an ELE, then we are and if you can't change the fuel consumption rate of the Sun, etc etc, then it's a moot point anyway. But to think we as a species is capable of changing this situation is as I said before, both arrogant and narcissistic, we ain't that powerful.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Jan, 11 2014 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


Okay, as long as you're sure.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by canucks555
 


No, your post is just hot air. List global temperatures by year right here on your thread and we can start the discussion. Otherwise you are just wasting everyone's time. All you have now is assumptions that will support what you want to believe.

Bonus data would be temperature data for other planets in the solar system by year.

The solar cycle is seven years.

I asked the same line of questioning on the last global warming thread last week and nobody could answer. Nobody really knew anything about it and they were just guessing.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 03:16 AM
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Something else we haven't thought of... Our elliptical orbit around the sun might have changed. If an orbit that goes from circle to an egg shape or oval then you would have extremes of both sides the further out the colder it is, then summer rolls around and it's hotter as now the earth is closer. The entire solar system is flying through space everything is subject to change.



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 04:39 AM
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Man most certainly has an impact on the Earth.
We cannot continue the path of "planned obsolescence" in any form, nor other polluting factors of our 'modern' lifestyles.

Nixie_nox asked: "What drives the natural cycles?"
I answer: Well... Nature. Nature, with-in and with-out the Earth drive natural cycles.

We are a part of nature, the only difference is our consciousness of that fact : problem is our in-action on the part of living off, not living with i.e. parasitism versus symbiosis.

So yes, my hope: this is a learning curve in the social evolution of human beings.

It is an incline that will break backs but strengthen our ideals towards the summit.
And it truly feels that if there is any 'new age awakening' it pertains to how we treat the Earth.

That said, the ice-age cometh and all mankinds failings toward the planet will not prevent it.
Geological cycles spanning 100's of 1000's, to millions of years, stand paramount to any opposing premise.

(Just to be clear, I do not condone raping the Earth. Thankfully, we are quickly realizing this (pity it won't change over-night). I accept that climate change is real, duh
. And the next ice-age, though definitely approaching, will also not happen over-night... give it a good couple 100 years and get back to me on AGW
)



Even if the next ice-age never comes, we're still 'cooler', historically. The only issue is the way we treat the Earth. Come to think of it, all the time, money and effort in the world is being wasted on climate, when in fact it should be spent on tackling pollution and ill-management of resources.

ooga-booga-chooga ma-looga ma-googa-googa,
ooga-booga-chooga ma-looga ma-googa WOW!
because



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by sean
 


Hi, Sean. I just to pique your interest, what you are referring to (I'm sure) are Milankovitch Cycles (if you didn't know
).
I'm being a bit cheeky here, not rude, just thought one would rather see for themselves than be dished a particular page

Milankovitch Cycles

Peace bro



posted on Jan, 13 2014 @ 07:58 AM
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canucks555
I've put this in Rant because that's what it is. I'm getting SICK and TIRED on conservative types laughing it up every time it gets cold outside and thumbing their noses at the scientific facts. You know what I mean, The Drudge report (conservative go-to msm site) mocks Al Gore continuously every time a snow flake falls, as do many other "no brain" columnists and blogs. Also the odd denying, "I want it all screw the earth" FB couch junkie.
Imo it just makes them look un-informed (aka dumb) -and is a blatant attempt to deceive an easily deceived public.
-It's all politics, problem is that it's stupid politics, Listen..Cold weather is a product of global warming.
Can you understand that? ??

Get it through your heads deniers!!



The world is getting warmer, which should mean warmer winters - right? Wrong - a new study shows that global warming produces colder winters and heavier dumps of snow for large swathes of the northern hemisphere.


environmentalresearchweb.org...



Warmer summers in the far Northern Hemisphere are disrupting weather patterns and triggering more severe winter weather in the United States and Europe, a team of scientists say, in a finding that could improve long-range weather forecasts. Blizzards and extreme cold temperatures in the winters of 2009/10 and 2010/11 caused widespread travel chaos in parts of Europe and the United States, leading some to question whether global warming was real. Judah Cohen, lead author of a study published on Friday in the journal Environmental Research Letters, and his team found there was a clear trend of strong warming in the Arctic from July to September.


www.reuters.com...



New research, however, goes further, showing that global warming has actually contributed to Europe's winter blues. Rising temperatures in the Arctic -- increasing at two to three times the global average -- have peeled back the region's floating ice cover by 20 percent over the last three decades. This has allowed more of the Sun's radiative force to be absorbed by dark-blue sea rather than bounced back into space by reflective ice and snow, accelerating the warming process. Read more at: phys.org...


phys.org...


why can't conservatives wrap their brains around this?
Is oil seriously that important to you?
Get your heads out of the stone/oil age folks.



edit on 8-1-2014 by canucks555 because: (no reason given)



Why do you need everyone to believe what you do? A tantrum/rant makes you look childish and makes even your valid points look trivial. You do yourself more harm than good by this. Grow up make up your own mind and be happy with that. Too many people need to be validated by others believing the same nonsense as them, when none of us know the truth. Believe what you will, time will tell who is right. You sound like some religious nutbag. "If you don't believe in Al Gore, you are going straight to hell." Wise up bro and afford the rest of us the same courtesy to make up our own minds instead of subjecting us to your gospel. Have an ounce of self confidence just once in your life. I bet you will like it. Be a leader. Go your own way. You don't need others to hold your hand and tell you how smart you are 24/7 do you? Quit whining. Be the change you wish to see. Just because you totally quit using oil in every form (I'm assuming this from your holier-than-thou position) doesn't mean the rest of us can make that sacrifice. I'm glad you can make it in life without electricity. I'm sure it was a long bike ride to the local library where you posted your rant on a public computer and we all thank you for the sacrifices you make for the rest of us on a daily basis. Now you bike yourself back home, light the candle and read some more propaganda. We are all pulling for you!



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