Modern Day America-Why you DON'T call the cops to come help; (gotta read this one)

This proves how dangerous and reckless this country has become.The morals are declining rapidly and it is turning into a bizarre police state.

reply to post by TorqueyThePig


The most shocking thing about your statement is NY made it ok (allegedly) to be hired if one has a felony. If this is happening it deserves some research to find out why.

If the cause is the tendency for generalizations to be made (people cop bashing - one bad apple spoiling the bunch mentality), educating of the public should be implemented.

I have a feeling it's a combo of low pay and the other but working in a thankless job increases stress. If you feel people hate you; dont trust due to a uniform - that would lower morale significantly. That in turn does in fact make room for those who live up to the sterotype. Sensitive and thougtful people feel these things more.

A public education campaign could help this - put the good stories out there (lots of those but we don't hear them). Stick with it - most of us know these are isolated in incidents.

I am not "crying" about anything.

The post wasn't meant to seek pity from anyone. It was a simple theory.

I was simply giving my personal opinion as to why we may be seeing an increase in police mistakes and/or corruption.

I understand that other jobs are stressful and pay/benefits have been slashed for many. However, this discussion is about police officers.

So you don't think that any of my reasons may be contributing to an increase in police mistakes and/or corruption?

Reason #3 is a huge problem and I have experienced it personally. You can say it is not true but I know it is.

Cops are not immune from civil lawsuits. Where did you hear that?

What am I doing about it? Well first of all I have never personally experienced any police corruption at my department or any of the surrounding departments for that matter.

As I have stated many times before, we did have one officer sleeping with prostitutes on duty. He was arrested and fired immediately. We didn't keep it a secret and we informed the public.

I have jurisdiction in my city and my city only. There is nothing physically that I can do about a "bad cop" who works 1000 miles away. If I could arrest a bad cop in California or a corrupt politician in D.C. trust me, I would.

The only thing I can do (which I do) is speak out against bad cops when I see them. I am also a member of Oath Keepers.

I do what I can (Part of the reasons why I am a member of this sight). I do community outreach and volunteer my time on a regular basis. I try to bridge the gap between the police and public every day.

Yet I am continually bashed, ostracized, and treated like utter garbage. People threaten to kill me simply because I am a police officer.

I am tired of it. It is emotionally and physically draining. I can't take much anymore so I want to leave. If you feel that means I have no valor so be it.

Can I ask though, what are you doing to help bridge the gap? As I said before it is both the police and the citizens job to work effectively together.

What are the qualification to be a police officer in the USA? What back ground do they normaly come from?

reply to post by anon72


The big one that sticks out in my mind. is the guy in a car accident, got burned like 80% of his body in the auto crash, was in a state of shock. Leo's show up tell the guy to get on the ground wile he was in shock. he did not respond so they shot him with a killing shot. It was on here im sure you can search for it. im to lazy today. but this is a big reason why i try to only drive to places i have too. Kinda real shame today. im not worried about my kids getting into the accident anymore im worried what the leo is going to do when he shows up to the seen. the way i see it is you have a less of a chance of dieing in the auto crash. but once a leo is on the seen your chances of death just skyrocketed.

crazyewok
What are the qualification to be a police officer in the USA? What back ground do they normaly come from?

Apparently having the ability to successfully fire a bullet into someone's skull is enough qualification.

Something that should be used as a last resort is looking more and more like a first option.

I can't think of any possible justification for having to shoot someone in such a situation as that. They've brought shame and disrepute upon the police force.

There needs to be justice. The police officer in question should be charged for murder.

Is this a police problem or a result of a system that completely ignores mental health, using prisons for those with mental illness instead of institutions?

You can thank Reagan for that.

Anyone who has a child with a mood disorder knows exactly what I am talking about. You can't get them diagnosed or treated till they cause criminal activity.

This is not the first time this has happened, I had a friend who the police pulled a gun on her schizo son. But from their POV, they don't know if it is mental illness or hopped up on drugs and are dangerous.

It is dangerous and lazy to lump one group in one category, police included. The other day I saw a police officer changing a tire for an elderly man. But those stories don't fuel the hate here on ATS.

TorqueyThePig

As I said before it is both the police and the citizens job to work effectively together.

It's a really nice thought in theory and while I don't agree with them I can certainly see the points you tried to make in theist 2 posts. The other side of the coin though is that the country as a whole has become very polarized the last decade and a half. The middle ground seems to have eroded considerably and we are left with extremes. Politically people come off as either far left or far right. When talking about law enforcement there are the people who support LEO's 110% and the rest would prefer to round them up for internment. There are far more people, in my personal experience , that feel as though they are under occupation by law enforcement as if they were a foreign military. Every day I read the paper and there is a new local dept. showing off their brand new bomb proof APC that they say us for crowd control or something equally inoccuous. Every day I see a new story about some officer going for his gun first when 20 years ago I simply don't recall this frequency of officer related shootings. I'm sure they happened but prior to the bank robbery in LA in 1993 I don't remember seeing or reading about any events like
this with the frequency the occur currently. When you get a lot of people feeling like they are under occupation the chances of them working with the oppressors is slim no matter how much those in charge would prefer that this was more like Vichy France.

Now that I'm done with my babbling monologue, may I pose a serious question to you? I've long been a proponent of having not just higher standards for law enforcement, the recent case in Ct. Comes to mind where the guy was denied a position for scoring too HIGH on his test, but also for higher standards for enforcement of the laws. By this I'm getting into the "who watches the Watchmen" paradigm but what I'm tryin to get at is that for those we entrust with enforcing our laws, I believe there should also be a higher level of repercussions when they voliate the public trust by committing crimes themselves or blurring the lines to such an extent that they have become what they are supposed to be against. When I commit a crime, its investigated by the local police. If the sherrifs deputy commits a crime, more often than not it is investigated by his or her own department. I've seen instances where that wasnt the case and it was picked up by a state or federal agency but was still prosecuted by the DA from the district the officer or deputy worked in.

The question I guess was,
Do you feel that the current lack of consequences could also lead to the corruption or poor conduct exhibited by many officers? Would more stringent enforcement as well as application of the law in regards to LEO's be a better deterrent? It's one aspect that can be addressed and fixed more readily than many of the scenarios you describe in your hypothesis. What about all officers wearing GPS audio and video gear?
Would that make them less dishonest in their interactions with the public knowing that everything they do or say as well as
Where and when it was said woukd offer them equal protection from frivolous law suits as well as protect the public from open abuse.

reply to post by Jobeycool



totally agree.

Im one of those ones another poster said feels as if we are under a military occupation by police. They always seem to have more and more, a mayor in Tulsa a few years back laid off a lot of police, couple hundred I believe, and lots of people threw a fit about it. Why do we always need more of them when this is the kind of crap they do.

The statistic someone posted about "8 times more likely to be killed by police than a terrorist" is probably so far from the truth. That number is probably waaaaay higher. I mean, take the 3 thousand people who were murdered in an "alleged" terrorist attack out of that equation and 8 times would probably be more like 80.

I'm beginning to think they need to do a better job psychologically testing police officers in police academy. They make such a big deal about gun control testing, but what about police officers who carry deadly weapons every day? If that quote about not having the time for this is true, than there is absolutely no reason this guy shouldn't be put in jail for murder.

Domo1
I think it highly suspicious that many officers who apparently were armed with tazers were unable to subdue a kid with a screwdriver. Then again, I suppose the story we're getting is almost entirely one sided at this point. I read both articles and watched the news blurb and still feel like I have no information. I'm not going to trust the cops or the father without more info. I would really like to see police wearing cameras. At least something mounted on a gun or tazer rail that is activated when it leaves the holster. I would gladly pay a few bucks more a year in taxes.

Without cameras it's pretty hard to know what happened. Often families lie, and so do the police. Witnesses are horrible, corruption and mistakes happen. Cameras don't lie.

First thing that popped into my head was that the cop grabbed his gun instead of his tazer. It makes sense with his allegedly saying 'we don't have time for this' which I would think to mean wrestling with the kid. Stranger things have happened. I remember a video where it seemed very obvious the cop had intended to grab his tazer and jumped about a foot high when his gun went off. I suppose that theory may be out because apparently it was radioed in that the young guy was shot in self defense by the officer. For all we know that may have been the case and the father isn't reliable, or the cop is lying to C his A. Both are certainly possible.



I hope there is a very thorough investigation, and I'm going to have a hard time accepting almost any reason for the kid getting shot. Even if there is a valid reason for the shooting (like the screwdriver was actually a knife and the kid had it up to a cops throat which I highly doubt) it's going to be hard to believe. Even if true. Which is why I say again, cameras.

If you failed to read between the lines, I think police should have cameras. Cameras.

i know a steroid head who became a cop years ago.....and during training he shot himself in the leg while re holstering his gun...LOL.....he was not a very smart cookie....whats worse is he is now a sergeant..

back on topic.....anyways it is possible he mistook his gun for a tazer ....but that is no excuse as far as i can see that was murder and the cop in question needs to be thrown in jail

double post

reply to post by anon72

These Morons just need to be charged with wilful murder. This is a disgrace. No wonder the public don't trust the Police in America. I used to be a Police Officer in Australia and dealt with many mentally ill individuals but it never crossed my mind to do anything but help them by getting them to treatment. Can't believe anyone would kill this poor guy. Very Sad

reply to post by nixie_nox

I have paranoid schizophrenia and the system sucks for treating mental health in this country it's not taken seriously. It costs money to treat people it's easier to just lock them up. My biggest fear is ending up in prison with this illness. They just dope you up with cheap drugs from the 1950's and throw you in a cell.

They closed all the mental hospitals in my state back in the 90's. They took a busload of mentally ill patients and dropped them off in front of my grandmothers church downtown. The temps were freezing in the teens and they dropped them off in the middle of the night with no medication. The church took them in.

It's appalling how the mentally ill are treating in this country. I guess it's better then having schizophrenia in Germany during the 1930's.

Zarniwoop
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

So the question has to become this...why did the parents call the cops in the first place?

The news video stated that the parents had to call police several times in the past to take their son to the hospital get his medication adjusted for his mental illness. Which means, he was on meds already. Something really strange there. Maybe they couldn't afford doc appointments and emergencies were the only way to get help?

Something went horribly wrong, and very few details other than sadly, someone is dead in a scenario that probably could have been prevented. It sounds like the police department is calling for an external investigation by the FBI.

I have a hard time believing that a cop said "we don't have time for this" and then just shot the kid, though. Those two events may have happened, but probably not in direct succession with one another.

Sad indictment of ATS that it's taken several posts until your own on this thread to question this version of events.

This could easily have been my cousin if he was born in America.


My cousin was abused as young child as suffers a number of major psychiatric disorders.

He regally flips out and goes into uncontrollable rages. The police are regularly called.

Luckily the British police are professional and do there job, they protect the public which includes protecting my cousin from himself.
He has punched a police officer, thrown one out a window and has also tried going for one with a bat. On all occasiona they manage to subdue him with minimal injury and deliver him to a psychiatric institution. They do this time and again without complaint and take the abuse even at risk to themselves. They even goes as far as trying to push for proper medical treatment rather than prison (mental health institition have shortage) As far as IM concerned the police in my area do they job and do it well and deserve the uttermost respect.

In the USA likley the police would have shot him dead and charged his mum. Or he would be serving hard time or life lost in you black hole of a prison system.

The police should not be a occupling force. They should be public servants dedicated for helping the public.

If you cant tell the difference between a gun and a taser- you have no buisness carrying either.

Such a weak arguement for the cops.

Strong arguement for those who say these guys have no buisness being police officers.

reply to post by kingmonkey


CNN is now reporting another slightly different version of this event -

"Everything was going good," Mark Wilsey said, according to WWAY. "Then this fat cop from Southport walks in the room, walks around the corner, says, 'We don't have time for this. Tase that kid now. Let's get him out of here.' "
The stepfather said Vidal tried to run but was struck with two Taser charges and fell backward. He said the first two officers to respond got on top of Vidal.
WECT attributed a slightly different accounting of events to Mark Wilsey. In that retelling, the stepfather said officers had pinned Vidal to the ground after he had been tased and one of the officers said, "We don't have time for this" and shot his stepson.
Seventy seconds after the third officer arrived, WECT reported, citing police records, police radioed that they had had to shoot the teenager in self-defense.
Mark Ryan Wilsey, who was not at the house but rushed there in an "absolute panic" and claimed that police restrained him, said his family is outraged by what happened and determined to get justice.
"We want the truth to be out there," he said. "We don't want the good ole cops system to play out something that ain't the truth."

Link to CNN Article

Not to say I trust CNN either, but at least they have 2 different versions of this reported..

reply to post by anon72

Another example of how in the last 20 years, or so, Policing in America has gone from one side of the pengulium to the other.

I say in the last 2 years this stuff has just sky rocketed to the point where these abuse story's with the help of social media are making it around the world.
I say this to you America where do you draw the line in the sand?