Utah legalizes gay marriage, December 20, 2013

Christian Voice
reply to post by Aleister

 

I'm telling you, it is just not going to go down the way you think it will. The feds are going to get fed up with it and wash their hands of it entirely and leave it in the states hands. I would imagine that the feds like the rest of us are tired of hearing the pissing and moaning all for freaking monetary benefits. YES that is what this crap all boils down to is money.

I like the line "the feds are going to get fed up with it". Federal courts are ruling that the state constitutional limits on marriage are federally unconstitutional, and if one circuit court upholds that ruling - that hasn't happened yet - and makes it law, it applies to the entire country (I think, but may be wrong, since I'm not half the lawyer my dad paid off).

At that point the Supreme Court either takes the case or it doesn't. If it doesn't, and allows the ruling to stand, it voids the constitutional discriminatory clauses of every state which has it. Either that or it takes the case. That's why the Utah and Oklahoma cases are so important now that they are before the 10th Circuit (which may be trumped by cases in Virginia, Ohio, Texas, or other cases being ruled on by federal judges).

TheRegal
reply to post by Christian Voice

 

So, naturally, your stance is that you should be allowed to have these monetary benefits, and gay people shouldn't.

How to spot a bad Christian.

"Judge not less ye be judged," said the judge.

Money is one of the things in the mix, as well as fairness, love, bickering in-laws, and anniversary presents.

MrSpad
Just like no longer denying people rights based upon the color of their skin no longer denying them righs based on sexual orientation is something that is sweeping the entire planet.

The difference is that skin colour does not deny the nature of the sexes, whilst homosexuality does.

Inkyfingers

MrSpad
Just like no longer denying people rights based upon the color of their skin no longer denying them righs based on sexual orientation is something that is sweeping the entire planet.

The difference is that skin colour does not deny the nature of the sexes, whilst homosexuality does.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Inkyfingers because: (no reason given)

Hi, and welcome to ATS. Nice user name. Nature creates homosexuals, and American judges (not to mention its society) seem to be taking that as settled law now, owing to last year's Supreme Court decision.

Aleister

Inkyfingers

MrSpad
Just like no longer denying people rights based upon the color of their skin no longer denying them righs based on sexual orientation is something that is sweeping the entire planet.

The difference is that skin colour does not deny the nature of the sexes, whilst homosexuality does.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Inkyfingers because: (no reason given)

Hi, and welcome to ATS. Nice user name. Nature creates homosexuals, and American judges (not to mention its society) seem to be taking that as settled law now, owing to last year's Supreme Court decision.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

Hi back!

The momemtum for this stuff is gathering but I'll be damned if I'm giving into the "Homosexuality is normal" mantra without putting up a fight.

Inkyfingers

Aleister

Inkyfingers

MrSpad
Just like no longer denying people rights based upon the color of their skin no longer denying them righs based on sexual orientation is something that is sweeping the entire planet.

The difference is that skin colour does not deny the nature of the sexes, whilst homosexuality does.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Inkyfingers because: (no reason given)

Hi, and welcome to ATS. Nice user name. Nature creates homosexuals, and American judges (not to mention its society) seem to be taking that as settled law now, owing to last year's Supreme Court decision.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

Hi back!

The momemtum for this stuff is gathering but I'll be damned if I'm giving into the "Homosexuality is normal" mantra without putting up a fight.

You don't have to give in to it in America, where thought is still legal (last time I looked). But unless you are a Federal judge then your thought will not affect your neighbors down the block from getting married, for better or worse, richer or poorer, yada yada yada.

I don't think drinking alcohol is normal (a dog thought my clear vodka was water once, took a drink from my glass - happened too quick to stop him, and it's the first time I've ever seen a dog make that 'yuck' face), but we learn to live with it.

Aleister

Inkyfingers

Aleister

Inkyfingers

MrSpad
Just like no longer denying people rights based upon the color of their skin no longer denying them righs based on sexual orientation is something that is sweeping the entire planet.

The difference is that skin colour does not deny the nature of the sexes, whilst homosexuality does.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Inkyfingers because: (no reason given)

Hi, and welcome to ATS. Nice user name. Nature creates homosexuals, and American judges (not to mention its society) seem to be taking that as settled law now, owing to last year's Supreme Court decision.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

Hi back!

The momemtum for this stuff is gathering but I'll be damned if I'm giving into the "Homosexuality is normal" mantra without putting up a fight.

You don't have to give in to it in America, where thought is still legal (last time I looked). But unless you are a Federal judge then your thought will not affect your neighbors down the block from getting married, for better or worse, richer or poorer, yada yada yada.

I don't think drinking alcohol is normal (a dog thought my clear vodka was water once, took a drink from my glass - happened too quick to stop him, and it's the first time I've ever seen a dog make that 'yuck' face), but we learn to live with it.

I live in England, where we are required by law to treat gay "marriage" as normal.

Inkyfingers

Aleister

Inkyfingers

Aleister

Inkyfingers

MrSpad
Just like no longer denying people rights based upon the color of their skin no longer denying them righs based on sexual orientation is something that is sweeping the entire planet.

The difference is that skin colour does not deny the nature of the sexes, whilst homosexuality does.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Inkyfingers because: (no reason given)

Hi, and welcome to ATS. Nice user name. Nature creates homosexuals, and American judges (not to mention its society) seem to be taking that as settled law now, owing to last year's Supreme Court decision.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

Hi back!

The momemtum for this stuff is gathering but I'll be damned if I'm giving into the "Homosexuality is normal" mantra without putting up a fight.

You don't have to give in to it in America, where thought is still legal (last time I looked). But unless you are a Federal judge then your thought will not affect your neighbors down the block from getting married, for better or worse, richer or poorer, yada yada yada.

I don't think drinking alcohol is normal (a dog thought my clear vodka was water once, took a drink from my glass - happened too quick to stop him, and it's the first time I've ever seen a dog make that 'yuck' face), but we learn to live with it.

I live in England, where we are required by law to treat gay "marriage" as normal.

Ah, the English way. I say I live in the Falklands, where Englanders have never ventured (or have they?). Anyway, yes, the law says that gay people in England will be legally married, and it will affect very little in the long run except for the couples themselves, their children (adopted or otherwise) and the fattened or lessened bank accounts of many varied individuals and shops.

Yes, because training society to treat the abnormal as being normal will have no wider effects whatsoever.

Inkyfingers

Aleister

Inkyfingers

Aleister

Inkyfingers

MrSpad
Just like no longer denying people rights based upon the color of their skin no longer denying them righs based on sexual orientation is something that is sweeping the entire planet.

The difference is that skin colour does not deny the nature of the sexes, whilst homosexuality does.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Inkyfingers because: (no reason given)

Hi, and welcome to ATS. Nice user name. Nature creates homosexuals, and American judges (not to mention its society) seem to be taking that as settled law now, owing to last year's Supreme Court decision.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

Hi back!

The momemtum for this stuff is gathering but I'll be damned if I'm giving into the "Homosexuality is normal" mantra without putting up a fight.

You don't have to give in to it in America, where thought is still legal (last time I looked). But unless you are a Federal judge then your thought will not affect your neighbors down the block from getting married, for better or worse, richer or poorer, yada yada yada.

I don't think drinking alcohol is normal (a dog thought my clear vodka was water once, took a drink from my glass - happened too quick to stop him, and it's the first time I've ever seen a dog make that 'yuck' face), but we learn to live with it.

I live in England, where we are required by law to treat gay "marriage" as normal.

Yes, it truly is sad that you guys can no longer treat a minority group as second class citizens. My condolences go out to you and your family.

reply to post by technical difficulties


Keep in mind they are minority citizens that choose to be minority citizens. Not like Blacks, or Jews, or Native Americans who did not choose their status.

Christian Voice
reply to post by technical difficulties

 

Keep in mind they are minority citizens that choose to be minority citizens. Not like Blacks, or Jews, or Native Americans who did not choose their status.

In the U.S., England, Canada, and many other places that legal point has been made: Homosexuality is not a choice, but is as natural as being black, jewish, or native American. I mean legally. You and others may disagree, but these rulings were made, and will continue to be made, using that accepted standard.

reply to post by Aleister

No it has not been proven, actually it's quite the opposite except from ultra liberal "scientists" with an obvious agenda and the people that have convinced themselves they were born that way so as to escape any form of responsibility for their actions.
However, this is derailing the thread. This tired argument is best served at another time and place.
PLEASE feel free to U2U me if you wish to discuss this aspect any further so we don't derail the thread any further.

reply to post by Inkyfingers


You have the right to believe what you want, but take it from someone who was born homosexual, it is as normal as being born Heterosexual. in the end we are both humans.


Same sex marriage should never have to be voted on, or debated by the courts or the states, if one human has the right to marry, every human has the right to marry. i am not saying you have to force a church to perform the marriage if said religion doesn't believe in same sex marriage, but every Human deserves the same rights and whatever comes with it.


it's the point people are being denied based on sexuality, no matter how trivial you may believe the matter to be

reply to post by technical difficulties


Telling homosexuals that their relationship is not marriage is no more treating them as second class citizens than is refusing taxi-driver licences to blind people.

Christian Voice
reply to post by Aleister

 

No it has not been proven, actually it's quite the opposite except from ultra liberal "scientists" with an obvious agenda and the people that have convinced themselves they were born that way so as to escape any form of responsibility for their actions.
However, this is derailing the thread. This tired argument is best served at another time and place.
PLEASE feel free to U2U me if you wish to discuss this aspect any further so we don't derail the thread any further.

edit on 20-1-2014 by Christian Voice because: (no reason given)

I'm talking legally. By accepting gay marriage, the U.S. courts, the English parliament, and all other legal entities which give the go-ahead to gays marrying are basing that on what some people call fact, and others fiction, that gays cannot choose who they are both attracted to and fall in love with. Gays I know are totally attracted to their same-sex, they aren't playing, but that is besides the point. Legally that line has been passed, and I don't think it will be retreating. This thread focuses on the legal progression of this issue, in Utah specifically but in other stats as well, and does not mainly focus on if "gay" is a choice or a hard-wired biological fact. Legally, the question has been decided. Hard to accept for those who think otherwise, but those are the facts on the ground.

reply to post by Darth_Prime


Darth, there is nothing normal about homosexuality, whether we are talking statistically or behaviourally. Its very nature is at odds with:
* life itself (procreation being at the heart of what life is....with homosexuality being inherently sterile not simply by accident, age or illness affecting an organ but by its very nature)
* and the sexes (which only exist and have meaning in the intrinsically complementary role they play together in sexual reproduction).

And no, that does not mean that anyone should be abused for being homosexual. It just means that you cannot compare such on a level with heterosexuality.

reply to post by Inkyfingers


That was an outstanding response. Two thumbs up.

Inkyfingers
reply to post by technical difficulties

 

Telling homosexuals that their relationship is not marriage is no more treating them as second class citizens than is refusing taxi-driver licences to blind people.

Apples and oranges. Oranges mainly. And I like your avatar and background color. You've become a functioning member very quickly, and please ask me or others if you have any ATS questions.

Back to your post, my bro-in-law and I once took a taxi ride in Vegas towards a mid-strip hotel, and fifteen minutes after we left the airport the cab driver, who had taken the expressway, passed the Luxor Hotel - a five minute ride from the airport. He was neither blind nor in need of glasses, just a licensed thief, but they gave him that license because he qualified for it. My point? The Luxor is five minutes away from the airport! And within a short amount of time (imnho) gay people, who will also get their license legally, will be getting married there. Some will be thieves and others saints, but they will all have the right to marry as first class citizens.

Inkyfingers
reply to post by technical difficulties

 

Telling homosexuals that their relationship is not marriage is no more treating them as second class citizens than is refusing taxi-driver licences to blind people.

Not the same at all. A blind taxi-driver could kill people. How does two people of the same gender getting married harm anyone?