Why I Think God Warned us About Conservatives and Capitalism.

page: 1
12
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 11:57 AM
link   
Now before I begin, I would like to point out that I am not a man of God, nor am I a 'commie' or a 'leftie' (as I can hear all the conservative capitalists screaming
). That is not the purpose of this post.

I hear a lot of talk about 'Conservative' Catholics and Right wing political leaders claiming they have 'Gods blessing' and they are 'true Christians'...

However, my understanding of Jesus and the Bible (which may not be as good as some of yours, so all information and debate is obviously welcomed) is that the rich and the lack of charity (or welfare for this argument) is EXTREMELY un-christian. In fact, I get the feeling that a leader who did have gods blessing would be emptying out his/her pockets to the homeless right now (an ideology which is considered communist, not true, it's humanitarian).

I feel that Jesus was more than a religious leader, Son of God and Saviour of Man. I think Jesus was a rebel, he was a revolutionist and he rose up against religious and economic corruption. I think that Jesus Christ had more in common with that hippy dude on the street corner, playing his music for free than any 'Christian family' orientated Disney 'musician' ever will be. Would Jesus really want a small percentage of men to control the wealth of a nation? I don't think so, if they wanted to enter the kingdom of heaven then those men should give their money to re-home the people living in tent cities. Jesus did not want a rich and poor divide, he wanted the re-distribution of wealth from rich to improve the lives of the poor. In fact, Jesus sounds more and more like a left wing revolutionist doesn't he?

Still a sceptic? Here's some of my favourite quotes from the bible:


Matthew 6:24
“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."



Luke 12:33
"Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys."



1 Timothy 6:17
"As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy."



James 1:11
For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.



Luke 18:25
For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”


I could go on and on and on... but sounds like what our friends at the 99% movement and OWS have been echoing does it not?? I think I know who's side God is on...

So Men and Women of God, before you next bad mouth 'lefties', remember, God is listening.

Peace.




posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:03 PM
link   

iRoyalty
However, my understanding of Jesus and the Bible (which may not be as good as some of yours, so all information and debate is obviously welcomed) is that the rich and the lack of charity (or welfare for this argument) is EXTREMELY un-christian. In fact, I get the feeling that a leader who did have gods blessing would be emptying out his/her pockets to the homeless right now (an ideology which is considered communist, not true, it's humanitarian).


It is not a sin to be rich. Your wealth will not gain you entrance into Heaven.

Charity is a personal sacremant, a Godly act important to Christians who are famous for their charitable works.

The Christ did not demand wealth be removed from those who have it (a la OWS; Socialism, etc..), either by theft or force and penalty of law.

It is a personal choice, a personal action which being looted by a mob, democratic or not, does not qualify as.

edit on CST12America/Chicago50Sun, 15 Dec 2013 12:04:03 -06000412123150 by TheWrightWing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:17 PM
link   
reply to post by TheWrightWing
 



In vs.17-22 a rich man comes to Jesus asking how to have eternal life he points to the commandments of which he replies that he has kept them since he was young. Jesus sees he is sincere in his pursuit and loved him by saying the one thing that was hindering him: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”


Sounds like he wants everyone to give up their riches to me, for that is the one thing that is stopping him entering the kingdom of heaven. Also sounds like re-distribution of wealth, would you disagree?
edit on 15-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:21 PM
link   

iRoyalty

Sounds like he wants everyone to give up their riches to me, for that is the one thing that is stopping him entering the kingdom of heaven. Also sounds like re-distribution of wealth, would you disagree?


Which is also an option, not a command, a suggestion to that man, not "everyone". It was a conversation with a man.

The Christ saw conflict in that specific man, and knew just what to say to him. This may apply to other people, or it may not, which is beside the point.

So, where is this alleged Biblical warning against conservatives & capitalism? You seem to have left it out.
edit on CST12America/Chicago50Sun, 15 Dec 2013 12:23:25 -06002312123150 by TheWrightWing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:22 PM
link   
reply to post by iRoyalty
 


Jesus rebelled against what ever it is that men used to worship. God(s) hated other power, and Jesus told everyone they could do everything as he did with but a little belief. Self empowerment.

I mean I wasn't there so I don't know anything, but it seems like what I call God is not the same as what is in the bible.

Call me a liberal libertarian. Or is that redundant?

If you save money you are hoarding time and energy expended by other people. How can they get this back? You have to then spend the money you gained from thier work so that they still have a job so they can spend more money...

Being billions rich is like putting a dam in the river. Everyone down stream gets thirsty. I am all for keeping what you earn, but having a conscious means you should spend a lot of it. Maybe you build a school for profit? Maybe you fund scientists to invent you more things to earn you more money...

Sitting on money is stagnant and kills the flow which is what the economy is.. Flow..

It's only common sense that wealth is derived from community. If savings overtake what was once in the economy the community will fall thus making the riches worthless.

Jesus knew this as I do now. I liken him to John Lennon in a way. Not saying they are similar in most ways or that john lennon wasn't rich, but they were both rebels and knew there was a better way.

Basically If you want to play the riches game you can't beat your "opponents" (brothers sisters) so much that they go home without finishing the game. If I was rich I would find creative ways of distributing my power, because I know as ONE person I can't affect enough things with that level of money on my own.

The main lesson is that people come first. That's it. Helping others helps you, because without the others no one is rich. If you go all the way down selfishness you come to the point of having to grow your own food, make your own clothes.. Consciousness is worth more than messing it all up in my opinion.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:23 PM
link   

iRoyalty
I hear a lot of talk about 'Conservative' Catholics and Right wing political leaders claiming they have 'Gods blessing' and they are 'true Christians'...

Never heard a 'Conservative' Protestant say that? Seriously .. you are MUCH more likely to hear a fundamentalist protestant say that then a Catholic. That's been my experience having lived in Alabama for nine years ...



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:24 PM
link   
reply to post by TheWrightWing
 


True, I understand that he says "it is HARDER for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" no impossible, but according to Jesus, that man was a true man of god but his wealth was the only thing hindering his chance at eternal salvation... Sounds like wealth was a big deal to me, also the bible is FULL of quotes persecuting the rich and saying that charity should be prised over personal gain, again sounds like having a rich and poor divide was not part of the divine plan.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Dustytoad
 


I agree, there is a basic reason all creature evolve to communicate on any form of basic level: Alone we are weak, together we are strong. We should always do all we can to help others. I have done it my whole life, I don't have a lot but I always share what I do have and whilst it means that I can't always afford new clothes, or decent food I do have a large group of friends who would do anything for me, that makes me happier than any material possession ever could.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:31 PM
link   

iRoyalty
reply to post by TheWrightWing
 


True, I understand that he says "it is HARDER for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" no impossible, but according to Jesus, that man was a true man of god but his wealth was the only thing hindering his chance at eternal salvation... Sounds like wealth was a big deal to me, also the bible is FULL of quotes persecuting the rich and saying that charity should be prised over personal gain, again sounds like having a rich and poor divide was not part of the divine plan.


What makes it more difficult is that a rich man then, and now, is used to gaining entrance based on their affluence and influence.

Heaven does not work that way, which is a big deal.

Charity is very important, having your property removed from you by force is not charity.

There will always be rich, there will always be poor which too, is beside the point.

The point:

You can be rich or poor, if you respect the 10 commandments and recognise the Christ as the Messiah which is all Christianity is, you will be redeemed.

Its very simple.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:31 PM
link   

TheWrightWing
So, where is this alleged Biblical warning against conservatives & capitalism? You seem to have left it out.
edit


My argument and quotes are my (perhaps bad) attempt to prove that Jesus showed more in common with left wing ideology and God does not approve of people becoming rich (which is a big part of Capitalism if I'm not mistaken).
edit on 15-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:32 PM
link   
reply to post by iRoyalty
 


I personally don't think God warned us about anything. He supposedly gave us free will to make choices. To give us warnings of any kind negates free will. I also think, everything attributed to God as being his word, is nothing more than the projections of ego by man.

jmoho...

Des



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:34 PM
link   

TheWrightWing
Charity is very important, having your property removed from you by force is not charity.


I think to be a good christian you should WANT TO and not be 'removed by force'.

Read some of these and tell me what you think the bible thinks of rich people, not their arrogance but their hoarding of wealth.

54 Quotes on rich people from the Bible



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:36 PM
link   

Destinyone
reply to post by iRoyalty
 


I personally don't think God warned us about anything. He supposedly gave us free will to make choices. To give us warnings of any kind negates free will. I also think, everything attributed to God as being his word, is nothing more than the projections of ego by man.

jmoho...

Des


Ok, perhaps I phrased the title badly... What I meant was that my understanding of the bibles verses on the rich, led me to believe that God would not want people to be gaining extreme wealth, in fact a someone who gave up all their riches to the poor seems to have a good shot at eternal happiness!



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:38 PM
link   

iRoyalty

TheWrightWing
So, where is this alleged Biblical warning against conservatives & capitalism? You seem to have left it out.
edit


My argument and quotes are my (perhaps bad) attempt to prove that Jesus showed more in common with left wing ideology and God does not approve of people becoming rich (which is a big part of Capitalism if I'm not mistaken).


Left wing ideology demands property be removed from any who they designate as wealthy by force and penalty of law for the greater good and to build a government big enough and powerful enough to impose that will.

Nothing the Christ has ever uttered can be aligned with that.

Charity is a personal responsibility, the act of the individual, not the mob or collective. extra DIV



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:38 PM
link   

Destinyone
reply to post by iRoyalty
 


I personally don't think God warned us about anything. He supposedly gave us free will to make choices. To give us warnings of any kind negates free will. I also think, everything attributed to God as being his word, is nothing more than the projections of ego by man.

jmoho...

Des


In that case watching the news or talking to ANYOBDY negate free will..

Maybe you meant less free will? I often talk about how everything is mind control to a degree. ATS is taking away your free will by warning you as well you know? Or is it? Maybe it's giving you more of the gameboard to play on?

Even your name binds you in ways that you would be more free without it. You still have enough free will to take what you have and gain more. It's all you.


I agree with the rest about "god's words" though. It's evident enough just looking at gender roles..
edit on 12/15/2013 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:41 PM
link   

iRoyalty

Ok, perhaps I phrased the title badly... What I meant was that my understanding of the bibles verses on the rich, led me to believe that God would not want people to be gaining extreme wealth, in fact a someone who gave up all their riches to the poor seems to have a good shot at eternal happiness!


You misunderstood.

Those who respect the 10 commandments and recognise the Christ as the Messiah have a guarantee of 'eternal happiness'

You mistook a conversation Jesus had with a man, for a command to everyone. A common mistake.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:42 PM
link   

TheWrightWing
Left wing ideology demands property be removed from any who they designate as wealthy by force and penalty of law for the greater good and to build a government big enough and powerful enough to impose that will.


Can you source this please? I've never heard of this before.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:44 PM
link   
reply to post by iRoyalty
 


So, you are basically saying God/Jesus are in essence, Heaven real estate brokers. Your buy-in, is poverty?

Des



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:45 PM
link   

iRoyalty

TheWrightWing
Charity is very important, having your property removed from you by force is not charity.


I think to be a good christian you should WANT TO and not be 'removed by force'.

Read some of these and tell me what you think the bible thinks of rich people, not their arrogance but their hoarding of wealth.

54 Quotes on rich people from the Bible


That is correct. Charity is voluntary, Christians are remarkably charitable.

Rich people can be arrogant, rich people can also not be arrogant.

The point is, your wealth will not gain you entrance into Heaven. Period. That's all there is to it.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:46 PM
link   

TheWrightWing
You misunderstood.

Those who respect the 10 commandments and recognise the Christ as the Messiah have a guarantee of 'eternal happiness'

You mistook a conversation Jesus had with a man, for a command to everyone. A common mistake.



Luke 6:24
"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you."



1 Timoth 6:9
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.



Revelation 3:17
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.


Dunno man... Sounds like he REALLY doesn't like rich people...





new topics
top topics
active topics
 
12
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join