Is It Okay That Our Food is Tortured Before Butchering?

tothetenthpower
reply to post by Advantage

 

You should only consume about a half pound of actual *Meat* per week anyway. The rest of your protein should come from other sources. So the fact that we produce this much meat, and eat this much meat is also a problem.

~Tenth

So where is this written? You need to deny ignorance and provide some impartial sources to support your wild claim. Sounds like something they would teach in the moronic US education system.

I am more concerned for the quality of life of livestock than their method of dispatch. After seeing how they raise chickens and pigs indoors I don't have the stomach to eat them any more. Free range or no meat for me.

It's one thing to take a life to feed another but to hold them in such inhumane conditions where they never see the sun or feel the wind or even so much as catch a bug to eat is worse than death. It's Guantanamo for animals.

I used to only eat the meat of game I had taken myself but circumstances have left me unable to do so. Now I have to pay quite a bit more to eat the same but I can't complain.

I don't want to patronize a system that abuses animals for any reason.
Same reason I won't take my grandkids to the circus which I've caught no end of grief over.
I hope someday they'll understand why gramps is such a meanie.

I'm not going to judge others for their food choices since that's their karma to work off.
But I do despise people who go to all you can eat buffets and throw away entire platefuls of food.
If it really that difficult to figure out just how much you can cram down your gullet in one sitting?

reply to post by signalfire


I don't agree with the way most meat plants are run, or the cruelty.

I have heard the meat actually tastes better when it's raised well and doesn't see the end coming...like others have said buying local can make this a know quantity as you can meet and get to know the butcher and his animals.

I think it is very important to honour the animal that sustains me, give thanks for its sacrifice and treat the meal with dignity.....it's better for the body and spirit.

I may be a nut, but I think it is important to be aware of what a meal is, where it came from and form my attitudes accordingly. We literally are what we eat in so many ways.


Cheers!

crazyewok

winofiend

you would be food. not a predator.

I live in the UK. Im top of the food chain.

Your Majesty!!
I had no idea a member of the Royal family was a member here.
Is it true Prince Phillip has a very small appetite?

Vegans, Big city folks, if you have not lived in the country and harvested your own meat or raised your own meat you can never understand why we do it. Hamburger, Milk, eggs don't come from the local grocery store they are raised for a society (big cities) that don't have a clue on where there food comes from, they don't care as long at they can tear a piece of meat with the teeth, or drink that cold milk, or fry that egg.

For those of us that raise our own we understand the issues we have to deal with in raising them and the hardships we have when its time to fill the freezer up. Man Kind has been living this way for centuries', if you choose to eat just that green stuff off of trees, go right ahead, I am not criticizing you, but if you are really hungry I have a yard full of weeds that you can come and make a salad out off, oh wait you have to cut their lives short when you do that, two fold on this conversation.

PS how much water is need to grow all those vegies?

19KTankCommander
For those of us that raise our own we understand the issues we have to deal with in raising them and the hardships we have when its time to fill the freezer up. Man Kind has been living this way for centuries', if you choose to eat just that green stuff off of trees, go right ahead, I am not criticizing you, but if you are really hungry I have a yard full of weeds that you can come and make a salad out off, oh wait you have to cut their lives short when you do that, two fold on this conversation.

PS how much water is need to grow all those vegies?

It takes a fraction of the amount of water to produce vegetables and fruits compared to animal meat. Go with aquaponics and you can reduce the amount further to 5% of what regular plant farming requires.

And the idea that 'you're killing plants, you meanie' as a comparison to animals kept in horrific conditions is ridiculous and you know it.

By the way people, as the OP in this whole little disgusting thread, I never said I was vegan or a vegetarian. That was assumed by the haters and they posted instantaneously to that effect. One could be permitted to wonder if meat eating made people... violent....

The OP, and I doubt they ever read it what with their sometimes obvious literacy issues (sorry, but I don't see how you can think clearly and rationally if you can't handle the demands of even one language) was about the conditions the animals were kept in, not the issues of veganism or meat eating.

The vehement hatred directed at vegans was telling, though. Tell me, are you all nice Christians, too? Because I've seen the same attitude towards atheists, and it's not pretty.

To the jackass that said he was 'going to kill an extra pheasant just because of me', well, I hope your mother is proud of you. And that no other hunters out there mistake you for something tasty. Don't wear your Ewok suit.

Well if you have ever been around farms you would know they inject the animals with stuff that makes them fatter and tons of vitamins and crap. Veal they pen the calves in such small pens that they can't develop muscles because it makes the meat tougher. Also they know they are going to die and release huge amounts of endorphins into their bodies, if you've ever been to a slaughter house is all you can hear is the animals screaming.

Came across a Chicken battery farm as a kid, yeah you ever seen a few thousand birds that are so scrawny suffering from malnutrition, they didn't even have feathers on their bodies, trapped in cages they couldn't even move in.

Its not bad its downright evil.

reply to post by Metallicus


Diversity in your diet is the key to remaining healthy. Protein from meat acts differently then protein from say, nuts. It's important to diversify in order to maintain a healthy balance. Too much of any kind of protein can lead to a wide variety of health issues.

Especially considering how most meat protein ( as in fish, beef etc) is produced in some of the most terrible conditions and then treated with all manner of toxic chemicals and preservatives. It's doesn't take a degree in nutrition to understand the less of that you ingest, the better off you'll be.

A simple google search would have been sufficient in order to quickly assess the validity of the information posted above.

~Tenth

ecapsretuo
On certain planes, it is not okay. When violence and pain are introduced along the food chain, the energy carries all the way to the eventual consumer of the food. The fear in the meat becomes absorbed as well as the nutrients. Though mechanically the physical body is nurtured, the more subtle and spiritual bodies find the energetic disharmony introduced by the violence. Buddhists are aware of this real dynamic.

Hunters are aware of this as well. It is physically explained as such: if the animal is not killed instantly, its system is shocked, releasing a rush of endorphins, adrenaline, and coping chemicals. In short, the physical embodiments of fear and violence. This is known to spoil the taste of the meat. This is why a hunter ought to drop prey in one shot, as opposed to wounding the animal and having to chase it down.

Energy is present in food throughout the food chain. The hunter would do well to prayerfully and thankfully take his game, dress it with respect and gratitude, and eventually cook it with conscious love. Indigenous hunters and animal farmers everywhere, across time, have been aware of this dynamic.

And what happens in nature, when the eagle seizes the fish, or the coyote finally clutches the rabbit in its jaw? Somehow, I think this is not an unnatural violence or torture. it is purely love, and the prey finds contentment at death.
I read a journal of an English explorer of Africa; he was taken into a lion jaws, facing death, and somehow escaped to write about it. In the moments in the lion's jaws, he wrote, rather than dread or fear, his natural reaction was of a profound peace. Here I think he was in Tao, or pure natural flow.

Factory animal farming and slaughter are far far from Tao. The inherent lack of love and consideration, abuse, fear, and violence do not die with the animal. After all, we are what we eat.

edit on 11-12-2013 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-12-2013 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)

Thank you for your considerate and well informed post.

It is not necessary to torture, or maim the animals that provide our food. The methods that profit based animal farming have developed to maximize the end dollar have resulted in that very practice, however.

It is factual that those who have lived close to nature, like the indigenous tribes, native americans and such, have always been thoughtful and aware of the spiritual nature of the animals they use for food. And they were thankful for the animal's "gift" to them.

As our societies became more possession oriented, more ownership ruled, the "lesser creatures" lost there spiritual value to them.

There is nothing wrong with bringing animals back to their rightful place and appreciating them. There also is nothing wrong with consuming them as a food source which provides necessary nutrients. We have become gluttonous, however, eating many times more meat than is required for our nourishment.

I guarantee that a wild, carnivorous animal, if hungry, would not think very much, about eating a human if presented with the opportunity. Most animals only feed when hungry, and eat until they are sated. They don't feel guilty about the death of their prey. It is also true, that they frequently toy with their food. Why, I don't know, maybe they just enjoy it. But, they eat the prey anyway.

For those who enjoy the vegetarian or vegan lifestyle, fine, it is your choice and there is merit to the practice for many reasons. A vegetarian fast is an excellent way to detox your body, helps control diabetes and weight. But for the majority, it is not a satisfactory diet in the long term. They crave the meat. I know I do. I crave vegetables in the same manner from time to time. My body tells me what it needs. Sometimes it is more protein, and I can only eat so many beans.

I think the point I am trying to make, is, we are a part of nature, we are not separate from it. We are part of the big wonderful cycle of life which includes birth, life and death. We require nourishment, as does all other life on our earth. We should not feel guilty for that fact, we should embrace it, and live our lives respecting all living things, but realizing we depend on them, in many ways, including as a food source, to survive. So it would be in our best interest to handle them with respect and care in all facets of our interactions with them.

BT

reply to post by signalfire


Don't worry about it signalfire - it's not everyone

Some of the attitudes you see here - and there - a lot of foot stomping and chest thumping...

Attitudes don't change over night - or for years and years - and years

But change does happen - it's happening now

S&F

reply to post by crazyewok

I retract my ealier comment and my earlier star and flag.

Because she has a different opinion from yours? Because it bothers her how our animals are treated?

Something you originally agreed with too...

Don't worry - nobody is trying to take away your precious weiner. They're just trying to make the world more humane

ecapsretuo
On certain planes, it is not okay. When violence and pain are introduced along the food chain, the energy carries all the way to the eventual consumer of the food. The fear in the meat becomes absorbed as well as the nutrients. Though mechanically the physical body is nurtured, the more subtle and spiritual bodies find the energetic disharmony introduced by the violence. Buddhists are aware of this real dynamic.

Hunters are aware of this as well. It is physically explained as such: if the animal is not killed instantly, its system is shocked, releasing a rush of endorphins, adrenaline, and coping chemicals. In short, the physical embodiments of fear and violence. This is known to spoil the taste of the meat. This is why a hunter ought to drop prey in one shot, as opposed to wounding the animal and having to chase it down.

Energy is present in food throughout the food chain. The hunter would do well to prayerfully and thankfully take his game, dress it with respect and gratitude, and eventually cook it with conscious love. Indigenous hunters and animal farmers everywhere, across time, have been aware of this dynamic.

And what happens in nature, when the eagle seizes the fish, or the coyote finally clutches the rabbit in its jaw? Somehow, I think this is not an unnatural violence or torture. it is purely love, and the prey finds contentment at death.
I read a journal of an English explorer of Africa; he was taken into a lion jaws, facing death, and somehow escaped to write about it. In the moments in the lion's jaws, he wrote, rather than dread or fear, his natural reaction was of a profound peace. Here I think he was in Tao, or pure natural flow.

Factory animal farming and slaughter are far far from Tao. The inherent lack of love and consideration, abuse, fear, and violence do not die with the animal. After all, we are what we eat.

edit on 11-12-2013 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-12-2013 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)

This is a brilliant explanation of why some of us cannot stomach eating meat...we can taste the energy involved. Maybe it's a sense that not everyone can develop, or would even want to, but your description of a quick or natural death is the whole point of this debate. Of course animals hunt for food, but it's a natural process, and both hunter and prey know what to expect. Factory farming and all it's nightmares is for profit only, and we have willingly detached ourselves from any whisper of compassion in the name of cheap food. Breeding animals at an unnatural rate, making their lives miserable and painful, and their slaughter nothing better than prolonged torture, frequently while still conscious, is a paradigm that needs to be eradicated.

My diet is mostly vegan, and it surprises people when I say I have much more respect for people who do their own hunting, and can do it well, than for the factory meat industry. If you have the guts and integrity to go and kill, and drop the animal quickly, then good luck to you...that's your agreement with the animal to do that. I know I couldn't do it, so I don't eat meat. Hunters do it to eat, most of the time, and the meat industry is all about the profit. We also have to remember that in some cultures, it's customary to torture animals to death, boiling them alive for instance, because they claim it makes the meat taste better. It doesn't take much of an imagination to realise what a dog might go through being killed like this.

I hope somehow that we're reaching a tipping point on this subject. As much as I hate it with a passion, I know the meat industry isn't going to disappear. However, all of us must put pressure on it to be as humane as possible, even if it means prices go up and profits suffer. We're absolutely damned for the way we treat the creatures that have no way of fighting back.

reply to post by caitlinfae


This...

Factory farming and all it's nightmares is for profit only, and we have willingly detached ourselves from any whisper of compassion in the name of cheap food. Breeding animals at an unnatural rate, making their lives miserable and painful, and their slaughter nothing better than prolonged torture, frequently while still conscious, is a paradigm that needs to be eradicated.

...and this

I hope somehow that we're reaching a tipping point on this subject. As much as I hate it with a passion, I know the meat industry isn't going to disappear. However, all of us must put pressure on it to be as humane as possible, even if it means prices go up and profits suffer. We're absolutely damned for the way we treat the creatures that have no way of fighting back.

We can (and do) vote with our dollars - as it becomes more profitable for people to raise things we will want to purchase - those things will become more available

And I know it isn't a popular position, or an easy one to explain - but I agree with you on hunting. It''s infinitely more humane than what happens on a factory farm

reply to post by signalfire

reject
reply to post by Bybyots

 

signalfire

And what does it say about those who will simply state, 'but I lurve me a good steak!'; usually these are the same people suffering from heart disease caused in no small part by the difficulty involved in assimilating animal lard and suet into the human body and burning the extra calories off again.

The Stomach Churning Reason Why Our Meat Is So Cheap

You know... I don't agree with how many of these animals are treated, and I would be willing to pay more for meat that has had a more sympathetic life and end. We do a lot of our own hunting, and buy meat locally. On the other hand, your cholesterol and propensity for heart disease has more to do with genetics and activity level than what you eat. I'm a runner, and I will put my cholesterol up against yours any day. I will also eat the fat off a steak that is rare enough to be cold in the middle.

My protein to carb ratio is pretty strange for a runner, and I can't "carb load" to the same effect as most people. It just doesn't really help me that much. My point with all of this is that some of us may be predisposed toward certain diets. Which doesn't invalidate your moral issue, but I will never take the stance that you do, because it is clear to me that I perform better on all levels with meat as a regular feature of my diet. I have always been a hard core carnivore, and that isn't going to change. Perhaps I am just an anomaly... Some primitive throwback that has a disproportionate affinity for those fast and dirty calories. There is a great deal of evidence that we are omnivores, and further, that our very evolution and intellectual capacity to ponder the morality of eating meat is only possible because our ancestors ate meat.

In my view the laws of nature justify an animal death for my consumption. Most living things on this planet must consume another living thing in order to survive. This is good enough for me, and the only thing the emotional quiver that is left over does is motivate me to make sure that it is a quick death before I pull the trigger. However I understand the moral impetus of your stance even if you will not respect my own.

reply to post by signalfire

signalfire
I wonder if the cost of that water (to society?) were added to the cost of the lb of beef, if anyone would be able to afford it?

The cost of production, shipping, and profit are built into the prices we pay - so yes, we can afford it.

signalfire
The whole system seems crazy economically and heartless to boot. Especially when people who have pets fail to extrapolate those animals' obvious feelings and emotions with their disregard for their future meals'.

I take issue with some (most) of the factory farm practices. Chickens, cattle, horses - any animal raised in a factory environment has a tortured life and death. I must admit that some of the meat we eat comes from the store - so is a product of these factories. We raise our own chickens and quail - and those animals live a good life. When it's time for slaughter - I make it quick and painless. Each hen has several free-range egg-laying years and as long as the rooster isn't aggressive to people, he gets several years as well (Fred died young, but his son Stripe has a friendly disposition). Yes, we even name some of them (the ones with personality and identifying marks).

signalfire
I also often wonder if humans will ever stop their warring behavior, as long as they are meat-eaters. Remember that line in Star Trek about 'we don't raise animals for food anymore...' it was subtle but nevertheless there, the horror of it all.

It's easy to stop raising animals for food when you have replicator technology and everyone is eating a replicated copy of the same burger.

By the way - Kirk eats meat in TOS, "The Trouble with Tribbles": "My chicken sandwich and coffee. This is my chicken sandwich and coffee."

I agree that the way we are treating our animals is disgusting. I love to eat meat, but eat mostly farm raised, organic meat. Which means I eat less of it, but I'm not participating so much in a system that creates suffering. Its also a shame that they pump the animals full of chemicals and GMO feed. We as a society have a large toll coming due to us as a result of what we've done to the food supply. The GMO issue, to me, is the biggest issue in the world right now, along with Fukushima, because it affects our future food supply as well as the present.

I believe our food should be treated with respect - most people would not be able to hold down their meal if they were given a tour of our factory farms.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Exactly...vote with your cash and show some imagination over what you eat. I've just discovered a couple of places near me who raise livestock to the highest possible standards, organically, and make sure their slaughter is as humane as possible. Of course it makes it more expensive, but we shouldn't be eating meat at ever given opportunity anyway. It should be treated as a precious thing, something to be honoured, not gorged on in some cheap way that doesn't do us any favours in terms of nutrition. The reason I needed to find such a source (not for me obviously) is that my other half isn't vegan, and we don't feed our dog commercial dogfood either...god only knows what's in that. The sources are out there if you look for them.

The hunting issue is interesting. I live in hunting country, and it's big business here. I hate it....absolutely detest it with a passion, and it completely breaks my heart to see trailers loaded with deer that have been taken on that day's shoot. To me it's not a fair fight, as the animal can have no concept of what being shot really means, but a decent hunter will make sure the stag knows nothing about it. At least killing in this way has some compassion and integrity about it. I've lost count of how many times hunting fans have picked an argument with me over my diet, only to find the wind blown out of their sails when I explain my views. The more militant ones will rant about how I'm depriving livestock farmers of their living by refusing to eat what they produce....that can get very interesting when they're forced to acknowledge their lack of research and frankly pathetic debating skills...not much critical thinking or respect in evidence most of the time.

We can't be naive enough to expect the meat eating to stop...it won't, sadly. No-one can defend malpractice when it comes to animal welfare, and this should be debated by everyone, regardless of the diet we choose for ourselves.

reply to post by stutteringp0et

I take issue with some (most) of the factory farm practices. Chickens, cattle, horses - any animal raised in a factory environment has a tortured life and death. I must admit that some of the meat we eat comes from the store - so is a product of these factories. We raise our own chickens and quail - and those animals live a good life. When it's time for slaughter - I make it quick and painless. Each hen has several free-range egg-laying years and as long as the rooster isn't aggressive to people, he gets several years as well (Fred died young, but his son Stripe has a friendly disposition). Yes, we even name some of them (the ones with personality and identifying marks).

We've gotten far away from this type of thing - this is the way it used to be. My sister raises chickens too. I don't know that we can come close to this more natural approach to meat consumption - the whole supply and demand thing has changed so much in developed nations - we're used to having what we want when we want it

But the truth is, most people don't know how their meat arrived on their table - and when they know they don't want to think about it. People make a great joke out of how eating meat is natural, and they're entitled to have whatever it is they want

But there is nothing natural about how we get our meat these days

reply to post by caitlinfae


Good post - so much here worth discussing - but I'm out the door

It is good to know that there are people from all over working towards this goal