Is It Okay That Our Food is Tortured Before Butchering?

signalfire
I wonder what this says about us as a culture; "9 billion broiler chickens, 113 million pigs, 33 million cows and 250 million turkeys consumed each year in the U.S", the vast majority of them treated inhumanely while alive, then dispatched by someone hired by us, the 'consumer' to do this on a daily basis. To kill for us, all day long, every day of their working lives.

And what does it say about those who will simply state, 'but I lurve me a good steak!'; usually these are the same people suffering from heart disease caused in no small part by the difficulty involved in assimilating animal lard and suet into the human body and burning the extra calories off again.

The Stomach Churning Reason Why Our Meat Is So Cheap

I don't know what "inhumane treatment" you refer to. Farmed animals must be watered, fed, medicated, and housed well to keep them alive. The problem I see is that commercial meats are mostly from young animals. Allowing animals to reach maturity and past before slaughter would be prohibitively expensive. Killing young animals is something I avoid by hunting older deer, hogs, caribou, etc. The wild animals have also had a life of family and nature, and have a very good chance of escape--so another factor in the moral superiority of trophy/selective hunting. Unfortunately, a high-population society cannot produce sufficient meat for their appetites by hunting alone.

Your linked article starts out FOS by talking about milk cows being raised on concrete floors.

reply to post by Tusks

Eating the young doesn't bother me.
I pick a yearling deer out whenever I can. They are usually calm when I drop them and they are very tender and tasty in most cases.

Point one no way no how can the earths poplation be supported by plants alone . Even if you could get every one to do that. Also a good 2/3 of the worlds poplation gets most of there protien from FISH and CHICKEN .A country like China haveing 1.6 billion people and most so poor they will never eat beef in there life .Rely on Fish and rice and chicken as there main sorces of food.
Its nice living in a country that has made growing meat animals so inexpensive that the averge person can afford to eat beef. But dont ever fool your self even here with only 310 million there is no way we could feed a balanced diet without factory farms .
Ps raise cattle 1800 gallons per pound?? LOL were do people get this? caf is born say 100 pounds at birth .
ok now lets say this is a beef cow ((black anges will do (its what I raised)
in 6 months the caf is ready for auction now he weighs 350 450 pounds
then they beef him up ((ha ha) sweet feed high quilty grain by 11 months hes ready for slaughter. now weighing 900-1200 pounds .
ok theres your bulls life 11 months to go from 100 pounds at birth to say 1000 at death. now having raised cows I can tell you for a FACT 20 gallons of water a day is twice what they need . but lets go with that number. 20 x 365 12 months = 7300 gallons total cow weighs 1000 pound that comes out to 7.3 gallons of water per pound a little less then 1800 gallons per pound lol.
Anyway without factory farms the best we could do poplation wise is maybe 2 billion .You do understand the footprint of a veg farm is much larger then a meat farm right? you also understand cow feed corn is also a much higher food content then corn for humans right? and again for wheat cow feed and human wheat are very different plants.
cow feed is much easer and takes much less space to produce .If the whole US went vegen totaly we would have to plow every singial acre of growable land there is to feed people.
the most food inficiant animal (food per pound of body weight is a Human .
chicken 1.5 pounds of feed per pound pig 4 pounds per pound cow 8 pounds per pound of meat. human well say from birth to adult weight at 18 wow scared to total that lol but lets say human eats 50 pounds of meat a year averge pluse 300 poundas of plant 6300 pounds total human weighs say 180 comes to 35 pounds of feed per pound of human . And lets not forget the human isnt going to a slaughter house and will be alive another 40 years minum.

reply to post by signalfire


My dog eats meat, and whether he killed a mouse outside or is eating some beef that I've thawed and given him, I'm sure he doesn't care.

By the way, how do you know that a tree doesn't hurt when you pick an orange? yet we raise farms of fruit trees just for picking.

It's nice that some here can afford to pay more for their "guilt free" meat, personally having worked in the industry I don't care BUT what about those that can't afford more? What about those family providers that pour over the flyers every week hoping they can feed their families a steak, or a roast, this week? IF it's on sale.

90% of the meat I eat has lived a long natural life in nature before I harvest him or her. Hunting and gathering is the way nature intended us to live in harmony. All creatures on earth benefit from the death of other creatures. I hate mass meat markets myself but if people want to continue to breed and live in concrete boxes then that's what has to be done to sustain them. But hey I'm with you, I say close down all grocery stores (as they are the reason for meat markets) and let them yuppies figure it out. I know me and my family will be just fine.

reply to post by GuidedKill


Phil, is that you? That's all well and good but over 80% of Americans live in urban areas. Not only do they not have access to hunting en masse but they've never been given the skills to do such.

intrepid
It's nice that some here can afford to pay more for their "guilt free" meat, personally having worked in the industry I don't care BUT what about those that can't afford more? What about those family providers that pour over the flyers every week hoping they can feed their families a steak, or a roast, this week? IF it's on sale.

This! This here. Thank you.

I am always astonished by the incapacity of many of the people who make these strictly "moral" arguments to understand the inherent elitism and immorality that is the other side of the coin. This is not the simple, "wrong or right" issue (as many would attempt to make it). The current system is far from ideal from the animals point of view, and I am grateful that I can hunt, and afford to buy or even raise meat that has not suffered the feed lot and mass slaughter methods. However, I am also grateful that we have the capacity in this country to be able to have that protein on offer (at least every once in a while) for those people that are struggling. To me, that is a moral point that has more weight than what the animals may suffer. Not a popular opinion no doubt, but for me... People first. Period. Done.

reply to post by intrepid


Personally, there is no such thing as "guilt free meat". I just want to make sure it's as ethical as possible. I hear you about people who are on very limited budgets...I'm not exactly wealthy, but at least I don't have lots of kids to feed, it's true. We've lost a lot of the skills we should have, like growing our own. It's not even about being a city dweller either...the urban gardens of Cuba helped feed the whole nation because people quickly rediscovered how to grow stuff. Cheap, plentiful meat from an industry completely lacking in compassion is not the answer.

I'm a little shocked when you say you don't care. I know you worked in the meat industry, but really....you don't care at all what they go through, is that what you meant? Doesn't it bother you on any level? I'm genuinely interested, not trying to pick a fight.

intrepid
reply to post by GuidedKill

 

Phil, is that you?

That's all well and good but over 80% of Americans live in urban areas. Not only do they not have access to hunting en masse but they've never been given the skills to do such.

.. and dont forget, when you try to educate and give them the tools.. youre already demonized by vegans to where they refuse to listen. Even that nice meat in the "whole foods" store isnt always as happy as folks think. Be a vegan, I dont care.. but your gonna get the horns when you try to tell me what I can put in my own body.. and try to legislate it or socially manipulate it.

I promise you Intrepid, if you can find a fam farm and see your meat and its living conditions before purchase, its better for both you, the animal, and the world. YOu really dont need the amount of that meat versus what youd have to eat from sick meat and your costs will even out. Bad or unhappy meat consumption is a bad habit.. one you can break and be healthy.. and not break the bank. I pay more for open range bison than beef for sure.. a LOT more.. but I eat LESS meat than I did with buying sickly beef from the supermarket. If you can train yourself, you can actually come out on top financially and health wise. Supermarket hunters need a whole paradigm shift.. not just access to happy meat/hunting.

NO normal person wants to see animals tortured for food. I think thats pretty well a no brainer. The problem is you have corporations running this show and really blame folks passing the buck on to the consumer for their own bodies needing the meat.They also are the same ones demanding hunting be stopped, demanding that raw milk be criminalized, and actively guilting/legislating you into making yourself ill... which pumps billlions through the medical mafia.

Ive never told this on here, but for what its worth.. Im in a sort of cooperative where I buy meat more bulk.. and its the happy healthy meat. If youre going to talk the talk.. walk the walk, right? We each are teamed up with one low income family and re-teaching them food/meat consumption.We buy direct from the farm and share a portion and wean them off of hte chemical meat.. then reintroduce good meat in normal portions. What should be normal portions anyway!If you have to eat half a cow a week to quiet the body crom crying out to you.. something is wrong with your meat. Its empty.
Im old, but Im a competitive fighter. I NEED energy and all of that because I love my sport. I cant push carbs like some can.. genetics. If I can be as healthy as I am, anyone can. I starved as a kid. I couldnt handle the school food and the normal diet.. I mean I was one generation off the rez.. trying to eat a typical american diet! Even as a teen, my cholesterol was high. I get it taken now and the Dr has a heart attack for me. SOme of us naturally and genetically have high cholesterol. I get put on this FDA and MED approved diet.. and damn near die. No exaggeration. I go and research things, decided to eat for my heredity.. and I was truly resurrected. At my age I not only look about 20 yrs younger, I feel it and I can work forever. There are a few here that know me personally and can vouch for it! There is nothing more sacred than what we feed the temple.. and I personally REFUSE to pollute it or allow someone else dictate what I put in my own body. Im a red, rare, fatty, happy meat eater. An animal has everything we need for certain body functions.. it can be found in ALL parts of the body of the animal.. including organ meats. Balance that with good happy vegetables and fruits.. youre golden. Typical Americans divide meat into "good" meat and "offal".Choice cuts, cheap cuts, etc. More control over what you put in your body and your own health... completely disregarding the facts and the animal that has given its life for you. When I kill a deer. I even eat its legs and facial meats like the cheeks and most organs..most hunters keep choice cuts and disregard the rest. For those who claim to be awake to the government and all.. boy are they missing a fundamental tool of control.. the very food you put in your body and the brainwashing concerning that food.

caitlinfae
I'm a little shocked when you say you don't care. I know you worked in the meat industry, but really....you don't care at all what they go through, is that what you meant? Doesn't it bother you on any level? I'm genuinely interested, not trying to pick a fight.

What they go through are our perceptions, not reality. Chickens are among the dumbest animals on the planet. They REALLY are cattle. They don't care how they are fed or housed as long as they are. As to abuse that may happen, and I wouldn't put it past PETA or similar organizations of quietly promoting it for their agenda. However when you're pumping out X thousands of unit/hour there's not time for that BS. Not to mention the damage to the product. An employer wouldn't tolerate it. So basically I don't buy all this stuff about torture and abuse. Sure there are cases, probably smaller operations but it goes against the bottom line.

Advantage
but your gonna get the horns when you try to tell me what I can put in my own body..

Huh? Then you proceed to do just that to the rest of us with the rest of this post. @@

MystikMushroom
What if we are simply livestock for a more advanced civilization...?

I noticed none of the pseudo-carnivores starred the above quoted post (it had 0)....

Scary thought, isnt it? To be in the position of the animal resource, instead of the position of the exploiter of that resource.

But might = right, doesnt it? And everything is fine and dandy until youre on the wrong side of that might....

-

Every thought, deed, and action resonates throughout creation, and as we will all find out at some point, creation is a perfect echo-chamber. What is put out, always returns to its source in like form eventually.

Be conscious of what you either cause directly, or assist in causing indirectly. Nothing is left unaccounted for, and no action left unreciprocated.

intrepid

Advantage
but your gonna get the horns when you try to tell me what I can put in my own body..

Huh? Then you proceed to do just that to the rest of us with the rest of this post. @@

YOu thought that was TELLING you?? Maybe read it again.. with my attitude and not with the one you attribute to me. I dont personally care what you do.. I was speaking with you given this is a discussion board.

Incredible..

intrepid

caitlinfae
I'm a little shocked when you say you don't care. I know you worked in the meat industry, but really....you don't care at all what they go through, is that what you meant? Doesn't it bother you on any level? I'm genuinely interested, not trying to pick a fight.

What they go through are our perceptions, not reality. Chickens are among the dumbest animals on the planet. They REALLY are cattle. They don't care how they are fed or housed as long as they are. As to abuse that may happen, and I wouldn't put it past PETA or similar organizations of quietly promoting it for their agenda. However when you're pumping out X thousands of unit/hour there's not time for that BS. Not to mention the damage to the product. An employer wouldn't tolerate it. So basically I don't buy all this stuff about torture and abuse. Sure there are cases, probably smaller operations but it goes against the bottom line.

Here's the problems, and I understand that you're seeing it from a business perspective...I see animals, and you see "units", and merely a product. I respectfully disagree that it's just our perceptions that create the abuse myth, if you want to call it that. Even chickens have central nervous systems, can feel pain, have emotions, however limited, and when it comes to larger animals such as cows, the equation is more complex. Sadly, employers in the meat industry to tolerate it, perhaps even promote it if they're callous enough, and there is plenty very graphic evidence available, much of if from industry insiders. It's really well documented. Perhaps you were lucky enough to work for some of the better operations. To someone like me who has a different view of consuming meat, it makes no difference at all how dumb an animal is, just how much it can feel.

reply to post by caitlinfae


Everything alive feels something. I saw a show on PBS a while back about a certain tree(I could Google it if needed) that when attacked by parasites it emits a warning to near trees and they emit an enzyme that repels further attack. Even in a slaughterhouse chickens don't know what's coming. Rabbits do though, nasty noise. As I said above they also don't care how they are fed and housed. It OUR perception that has turned this into an issue.

Advantage: My apology for taking your post the wrong way.

reply to post by intrepid


We're not talking about trees though, even if they do feel emotion, they don't have nervous systems. It's a different issue. I'm also troubled by your assertion that animals don't care how they're fed and housed. In a natural state, they would never choose to put themselves in filthy cages, in cramped conditions, and the abuse you're denying is so well documented it's sickening. Maybe it's your sensibilities that limit how you perceive the problems involved, and not the vegans being too sensitive? Denying there is a problem doesn't make it go away. In fact, it can lead to the issue becoming much worse if it goes unchecked, which is why we have a meat industry structured the way it is now....no-one challenged it, maybe not enough people knew.

My steak tastes the same whether I shoot the cow in the head or Waterboard it before I shoot it.

caitlinfae
reply to post by intrepid

 

We're not talking about trees though, even if they do feel emotion, they don't have nervous systems. It's a different issue.

I don't see how.

I'm also troubled by your assertion that animals don't care how they're fed and housed. In a natural state, they would never choose to put themselves in filthy cages, in cramped conditions...

But they AREN'T in a natural state and have never known a different life. Like I said, OUR perception.

...and the abuse you're denying is so well documented it's sickening. Maybe it's your sensibilities that limit how you perceive the problems involved, and not the vegans being too sensitive? Denying there is a problem doesn't make it go away.

Documented by whom? PETA? Animal rights groups? We all know what they are about. Btw, I didn't say it doesn't happen, I said it's not prevalent. And my sensibilities are just fine. I just don't cry wolf for a very small issue.

reply to post by intrepid


Animal rights groups....are about animal rights. That's what they do. They wouldn't exist if there were no animal abuse issues. Dismissing cruelty as a non issue simply because you feel it's a minor or insignificant matter doesn't make it ok. There is absolutely overwhelming evidence from industry insiders as well as animal activists that abuse does go on, and is ignored in the name of profit. With all due respect, please don't let your experiences blind you to the shortcomings elsewhere in the business.

Perhaps is is really dues to a different set of senses, if you want to call them that. I will never understand how someone can spend their days slaughtering other creatures and not be bothered by that. Maybe we're just wired differently. Trees and rabbits are not the same when it comes to feeling pain, terror, any emotion. Plants do not have central nervous systems, and do not react the same...arguing this point is rather ridiculous. Also arguing that it's ok to keep chickens in terrible conditions simply because they have never known anything else is also invalid...they have instincts, they know how they should behave naturally, and what suits us out of mere convenience has no justification besides profit.