Research of the beast of Revelation. Possible April 2014

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Dianec
The whore that sits upon the beast has got to be the Dragon in revelation

Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

You lack understanding of very basic things. Woman is a church, everywhere!

Whore = Woman with satanic doctrines, false teachings.

a reply to: spy66

This is what I keep seeing repeated over and over. This has different details and justifications but the same end. I see this can fit with your statement above in that he is the mouthpiece perhaps - not the one. More seems to be revealed as the years pass.

History tells us that during the fall of Babylon, its priesthood fled to Pergamum, and the Babylonian religion, rites, and rituals, as well as its hierarchy, were maintained there. The last pontiff king of Pergamum, King Attalus, bequeathed his title, the structure of the Babylonian priesthood, and vestments to Rome.i Initially, only the pagan high priest of Rome used the title Pontifex Maximus, but when pagan Rome fell, this Babylonian title was transferred to the Pope.

Interestingly, the statue of Pope Gregory XIII shows not only this title, but also shows the Pope on top of a dragon. According to Revelation 13, it is the Dragon that gave his power to the sea beast, the Papacy. In a special sense, the Roman Pontiff is thus the spokesman of the Dragon and it is through the Papacy, the heir of the Roman Empire, that the Dragon exercises his authority.

amazingdiscoveries.org...

a reply to: SRS82

I have heard of this 3.5 year thing being misinterpreted but I don't remember why so I'll look that up. It feels like things are speeding up exponentially so what you say makes sense.

There have been many interpretations of revelations through time but nothing has made as much sense as the Rome thing and the church. I may have been in the dark while others weren't but I never came across this notion until recently. It not only makes sense, I can feel it.

A silly side note - there have been a couple of television series running on what the true Rome was like. Definitely people being gluttons and experiencing every human pleasure without much thought for anything or anyone but their experience. It's only been in the past few years. I am not sure if the actual Rome will come back into power or we will simply be reminded of the power it held. Again, I have to look up the verse about the 7 hills.

originally posted by: SRS82

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Dianec
The whore that sits upon the beast has got to be the Dragon in revelation

Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

You lack understanding of very basic things. Woman is a church, everywhere!

Whore = Woman with satanic doctrines, false teachings.

You can believe what you like for all i care. The whore on the beast can not be The Pope. Because the Pope is one of the 10 horns. Cant you read?

A verse even state that all ten horns will hate the whore. Do you really think the Pope would hate his own Church that will give him the status as King?

The Vatican is a false churce and it makes the Papal see a horn on the beast. Not a whore that rides the beast.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Dianec

Look, I don't think this man is the AC, the one, but I think he couldbe the other figure, the false prophet. I'm not sure about that either; I just know while some of what he says is very seductive and sound right, there's quite a bit that troubles me too.

I have read some Catholic apologists who say that some of what we see as troubling is really media misrepresentation, but even they have trouble passing off the kiss of the Koran.

Now, let me be clear - If you are of the muslim faith, that is an entirely appropriate gesture to make, but I don't think it's appropriate from someone not of that faith. It would be appropriate to treat the book with respect, not reverence. There is a clear difference between showing respect for the religious practices and customs of another and partaking in them as if you were one of them, of that faith.

That was a big revelation to me. I know he is planning for more prayer on the Koran. I just read that. As he attempts to make peace between Israel and Pakistan (although he says he isn't trying to do that). It's unprecedented. It's confusing even.

Tell me if this makes sense - 2 different beasts means one came long ago, (maybe during Jesus' time even), and we are to expect the second. We see kingdoms or kings spoken of who will fall. At least five have fallen: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Rome. I might be missing one as Im not sharp on my history in this regard.
There would still be one beast to come and maybe two more kings or kingdoms to fall. I see this in Revelation 13 so we would move forward from there - to chapter 17 where the 7 heads (Rome), the whore, and so forth are spoken of. The second beast, we are told, is like a lamb with two horns. This is the one who will do the mark of the beast. If we separate the beast by several thousands of years does it change the interpretation?

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: SRS82

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Dianec
The whore that sits upon the beast has got to be the Dragon in revelation

Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

You lack understanding of very basic things. Woman is a church, everywhere!

Whore = Woman with satanic doctrines, false teachings.

You can believe what you like for all i care. The whore on the beast can not be The Pope. Because the Pope is one of the 10 horns. Cant you read?

I belive what is written, not what I want.

Who said that the whore is the pope?

You come to this thread that I started and put words in my mouth.

Peace of the messiah!

originally posted by: Dianec
a reply to: SRS82

I have heard of this 3.5 year thing being misinterpreted but I don't remember why so I'll look that up. It feels like things are speeding up exponentially so what you say makes sense.

I'm not going to explaing everything but it is less than a year basically because of the following:

Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?” rev 6:16

Day in prophecy = 1 year.

And:

If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. mat 24:22

Now, one would argue that days in the verse above could be years because 1 day = 1 year, but I'll leave that for you think about it. Peace of the messiah.

a reply to: Dianec

The first beast spoken of in chapter 13 is the papacy, but not the same papacy after 1929. The papacy after 1929 is spoken of in chapter 17.

Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw the papacy rising up out of the sea (rising up, it cannot be jerusalem as some people claim. rising up: something new), having 7 hills of Rome and ten kingdoms that destroyed Rome representing its power (Germans, Franks, Burgundians, Suevi, Anglo-Saxons, Visigoths, Lombards, Heruli, Vandals, Ostrogoths). Now the papacy I saw was like the Greece, Medo-Persian and Babylonian kingdoms (leopard,bear,lion). The Roman Empire gave the papacy its power, throne and great authority.

And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed ... He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword.

"In the following December, a riot in Rome led to French occupation of that city on Feb. 15, 1798, and the proclamation of a republic by a group of Italian patriots. Aged and frail, Pius VI was seized by the French in March 1799 and died a prisoner in France the following August."

The fatal wound is the pope that was killed by the french in 1799 and after that the popes lost their power to persecute the people. The Lateran Treaty in 1929 restored the power of the beast by making the popes kings of vatican thus healing the fatal wound.

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months

The 42 months are 1260 days. It is known that 1 day means 1 year in profecy according to Ezekiel 4 6. The papacy had full power from 538 to 1798, in another words 1260 years to kill anyone who was against their false teachings, yes they killed many true saints that they called heretics.

The second beast of chapter 13 is the United States. Its two horns are the state and religion. Until now, the first amendment still guarantees the separation of the state from religion. At some time the 1st amendment will be gone, religion will be no longer separated from state, religion will be above state, and then the mark of the beast will be forced.

a reply to: SRS82

I have not studied theology and am only exploring things in here as prophecy interests me. With that I'll say I'm not sure I understand your dates because Jesus came 2000 years ago to beat satan so it seems the first beast came back then. The dragon may have been from the time of before or around Jesus' presence on earth. This is just me going with my gut so nothing to quote. The dragon is a mythical beast that has been idolized and feared, which sounds a lot like the way of life back then. People were terrified of the rulers who were also idolized.

With regard to the animals, in the1850's strange statues were found in Babylon and Assyria, of a lions head like a man, and wings. I'm not sure if it was ever dated because it could have been made after John and Daniel wrote their prophecies but it would be interesting to know. I found it is called a lamassu in Wikipedia.

The woman of today (the scarlet one), seems to hold a great deal of appeal and power. She commits adultery with idols and kings. She has great wealth given the gold and jewels that accompany her. This woman will be a whore to the kings of the earth. She is in control, and entices them to come under her authority (gets them drunk). She sits on 7 mountains, which we know is Rome. Ten of these kings receive power to for one hour. Eventually the kings turn on the scarlet woman, and the scarlet woman in this case does sound like the US. We have had a lot of power, authority, and influence. But she lives on the 7 mountains so maybe we are one of the 10 horns.

What is confusing me at this moment is we are either in Revelation 6:9 or around chapter 17. Depending on how one interprets when the first beast came. ?

My thoughts on some of the animals (although I also agree they could represent Countries). If speaking of all present day Kingdoms or even 10 Counties could it be that we were being told to look for those who had these characteristics.
A lion is quick and sudden. It is patient and lays in wait and when it opens its mouth it is fast and fatal. A leopard is even faster than a lion. It can attain great distances in a short amount of time. Both are sneaky and you don't really know they are there are there until they are on top of you. The bear has stealth. It is slow but sure and it's level of strength is deceiving (wouldn't guess it could move a 400 pound rock or that one swipe could break your back for example). The bear reminds me of China.

It's as if we need to trust that still voice inside because there could be so many ways to interpret it all. I believe it will all become clearer as time goes on but it is definitely interesting to explore ideas. We are warned heavily of deception so I am confident things will evolve over time. I'm open minded. The only thing of it all that sticks with me hard is Rome. The more I think about it the more certain I am they play a big role.

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Shami Witness ‏@ShamiWitness 17 min

Abu Jandal al Kuwaiti and other ISIS in a captured palace of Saddam Hussein pic.twitter.com/S0SG90QOpp #Iraq

Here is my belief on the subject.
The identity of the harlot Babylon from Revelation chapter 17 is closely tied to the identification of the beast empire, the 4th kingdom from Daniel chapter 2 and chapter 7. The key to understanding anything in the book of Revelation lies in understanding the symbolism that is used. When trying to identify the woman or “harlot of Babylon,” we must first examine what the woman represents. Revelation 17:18 tells us this, “The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.” We now know that the woman represents a city, a “great city,” not an entire kingdom. The identification of the city can be gleaned from a careful examination of the scripture.

Verse 17:1 tells us that “the great harlot … sits on many waters.” The identity of the “waters,” is revealed in verse 15; “the waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.” The fact that this city is depicted as being seated on “peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues” indicates the city’s connection to the gentile world. We will come back to this later.

Another important piece of information is found in verse 3 where John sees “(the) woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.” The fact that the woman is seen riding the beast is a clue that there is an agreement or covenant between this “great city” and the beast empire of the antichrist. In verse 4 the city’s sinfulness is emphasized when the woman is pictured as “having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality.” Likewise in verse 6 the woman is “drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.” The only references to “great (3173) city (4172)” in the Greek are in Revelation, and the first reference definitely refers to Jerusalem. Revelation 11:8 says “and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great (3173) city (4172) which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.” Jerusalem is being allegorically called “Babylon” and is being referred to as a harlot because she has left her faith in the Living God and now has a gentile identity. Additionally we know from Rev. 11:2 that the gentiles will control Jerusalem for 42 months (half of 7 years). Revelation 18:24 says of Babylon, “And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.” This is a clear reference to Jerusalem; Jesus himself said “no prophet can die outside Jerusalem.”

According to Daniel 9:27 Israel will make a 7 year treaty with the antichrist. This is also shown with the image of the woman riding the scarlet beast. Jeremiah 2:13 mimics the character of some of God’s people during this time. “For My people have committed two evils: they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, to hew for themselves cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.” However, God will preserve a remnant of Israel who will not soil themselves with the antichristian idolatry during this time.

Now we will examine the nature of the beast empire that is led by the antichrist. “Beast” in Revelation is a term that is used interchangeably between the antichrist and his empire.
Revelation 17:8 says “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.” This means that the empire of the antichrist will be an empire that has existed previously and will be revived during the last days. Revelation 17:9-10 are crucial in the interpretation of which kingdom is being revived and used by the antichrist. They state “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.” Notice that the verse actually says “mountains” and not “hills” because that is what the Greek word actually means (NIV incorrectly translates as hills).
We already know that the woman is Jerusalem, but what do the mountains represent? When “mountain” is used symbolically in the scripture, it is a reference to a kingdom or empire. This is what verse 10 actually tells us. The seven kings are not human kings but are seven kingdoms, so what is pictured here is a city, Jerusalem, which is seated upon seven kingdoms that have existed sequentially throughout earth history. At the time of John’s writing “five have fallen.” These five were the Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo-Persian, and Greek kingdoms. The sixth kingdom was Rome, the kingdom of John’s time. The kingdom that had “not yet come” was the Islamic Caliphate. It began after Muhammad’s death in 632 AD and continued until the Ottoman Empire was abolished in 1924. Verse 10 says of the seventh king (kingdom), “when he comes, he must remain a little while.” This was certainly true of the Islamic Caliphate which existed for almost 1300 years! It is duration and not non-duration that is being stressed here.

We are given another clue about the beast empire in verse 11. It says “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.” This means that the beast empire is sequentially an eighth empire that will arrive on the world scene, and that it is also one of the seven already mentioned. One of the seven kingdoms is revived and becomes the eighth and final one. Rome was the sixth empire, and some people believe that there will be a revived Roman empire that will be the seventh empire. If that were the case then would Rome be the eighth as well? Rome cannot be the sixth, seventh, and eighth empires; it makes no sense and is not found in the Word of God. Revelation 17:16 gives us another reason that Rome cannot be the kingdom used by the antichrist. “And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.” If Rome is the revived beast empire, would it hate the harlot city Rome? No. But would a revived Islamic Caliphate hate the harlot city Jerusalem? You’d better believe it! Verse 16 says that the beast and his kings will make the city “desolate … and will burn her with fire.” Jesus mentioned this very event in Matthew 23:37-38. “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you … Look, your house is left to you desolate.”

a reply to: SRS82

I think the beast is ISIS, ISIS Terrorists have been caught in France and Spain. People who want the war or who gain from a war will create a reason. Chance of this happening are very high.

I am no prophet, just a good educated guess.

nvm.

I don't normally look at other people outside of Biblical prophecy because they are chancy at best. However, Nostradamus did foretell three anti-Christs. He said the first two would be bad. The second one, for reference, is believed to have been Hitler. According to Nostradamus, the third will arise out of the Middle East and the events that will lead to his coming began shortly after 1999.

Nostradamus says he will wear a blue turban when he begins his invasion of Europe, and he will usher in such a terrible war as to face the world with annihilation. He will, in fact, be so terrible as to put Hitler to shame.

Now, you have to decide for yourself ... how reliable is Nostradamus? Did he see anything at all or was he only given glimpses with most of his stuff being embellishment that he believed he saw? Or is he just so much empty words? Whatever, he certainly seems to be aligning some with this one, and I hope his words are just a lucky coincidence here. I could stand to not have to see WWII.

I also know this - bit of local wives lore - whenever you see a bunch of boys born, is it because nature knows they will need to be replaced? I know my families youngest generation overflows with boys by a 2 to 1 ratio.

a reply to: SRS82


IX = 9

XI = 11

Talks to remove the theological obstacles that prevent the Catholic and Orthodox Churches from entering into full communion are proceeding slowly but steadily.

The aim is to see if the two Churches can agree on a definition and a way for the Bishop of Rome to exercise his primacy that would be acceptable to the Orthodox Church. It seems that this goal is still far from being reached. However, some important changes have occurred in the past four years:

The Orthodox will discuss the possibility of finding common ground on an ecumenical level as well at the Great and Holy Council, which Bartholomew has convened for 2016. This ecclesial meeting will show whether the identitarian and nationalistic closed-mindedness – that seems to be dominant in many Eastern European Churches – will prevail, or whether the Orthodox Church will take advantage of the unique ecumenical and pastoral approach of Francis’ pontificate. “The Orthodox,” Patriarch Bartholomew said in an interview published in Italian Catholic newspaper Avvenire, “do not perceive any arrogance in the current papal institution; this had previously posed an obstacle to Catholic-Orthodox relations. With his example, Pope Francis is laying down new foundations for the entire path of ecumenical dialogue.”

How popular would this pope be if the schism was healed? He might be called a peace maker even.