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I forget, is the "fiction" that the Papacy is supposedly based on, that there might be some dispute over the order of the first two or three Popes? Is that all this is about?
charles1952
I forget, is the "fiction" that the Papacy is supposedly based on, that there might be some dispute over the order of the first two or three Popes? Is that all this is about? - C -
ghostfacekilah00
ProfessorChaos
Actually, the Papacy and the "Succession of Peter" is based on a misunderstanding of the scriptures.
Often Matthew 16:18 is pointed to as the scripture that proves Peter was the first Pope. When read in context and when proper translation is applied to the text, the words for "Peter" and "Rock" are actually two different and distinct words.
Peter (translated "Petros") means "a detached stone or boulder, that could be easily moved" while the word that was used for "Rock" (Translated "Petra") in this text refers to "mass of rock" indicating immovability.
The actual rock Christ points to as the foundation of his church was certainly not the Apostle peter, it was the truth that Peter had spoken in the previous verse Matthew 16:16, in which, when asked who he thought Jesus was, he replied "You are the Christ; the son of the living God."
The Catholic church also gives too much literal leaning to the verse in which Christ gives the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to Peter, as though he literally holds a set of keys that control the opening of Heaven's gates. Peter is not the gatekeeper of the Kingdom of Heaven any more than anyone else who shares the gospel to those that do not know Christ.
There is certainly a lot more information regarding this topic, but I'm preparing my son's 1st birthday party at the moment. Hopefully others may be able to shine additional light on this thread.
So what did Christ mean when he says I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven? Why did he address Peter specifically when he said this although the other apostles were present? The Catholic Church doesn't believe that Peter is literally sitting outside the Gates of Heaven with a set of keys like a hotel front desk person if that's what you're implying. He is certainly in Heaven enjoying the same reward everyone else there is.
www.catholic.com...edit on 7-12-2013 by ghostfacekilah00 because: (no reason given)
DISRAELI
ghostfacekilah00
The council of Nicea would be irrelevant to history if it was not approved by and considered infallible by the Catholic Church, which has made the official decree on the infallibility of every council that shaped Catholic Church doctrine.
The word "Catholic" has got at least two meanings.
a) It describes the universal church of God (the original meaning)
b) It is a brief nickname for the body whose full name is "Roman Catholic church".
You are making the standard Roman Catholic mistake of treating the two meanings as the same thing.
The truth is that the Nicene Council represented and was endorsed by the "Catholic church" in the first sense.
The Nicene Council COULD NOT be endorsed by the Roman Catholic church, because the "Roman Catholic church" did not exist at the time. The idea of a single body with the Pope at the top was a much later development.
Constantine called the Council because he thought he was the man in charge and did not need anyone else's consent.
colbe
St. Ignatius, 3rd Bishop of Antioch first used the word CATHOLIC. Ignatius as boy, knew the beloved
Apostle John.
DISRAELI
colbe
St. Ignatius, 3rd Bishop of Antioch first used the word CATHOLIC. Ignatius as boy, knew the beloved
Apostle John.
As usual, you have quoted what I posted without bothering to read it or take in any of the meaning.
Let me repeat what I said;
"The word "Catholic" has got at least two meanings.
a) It describes the universal church of God (the original meaning)
b) It is a brief nickname for the body whose full name is "Roman Catholic church".
You are making the standard Roman Catholic mistake of treating the two meanings as the same thing. "
The fact that Ignatius used the word "Catholic" is quite irrelevant, because he said "Catholic", in the first sense, not "Roman Catholic".
He was talking about the universal church.
He was not talking about your own bullying fragment of the church, which tries to steal and monopolise the words "catholic" and "church".
As I have pointed out before, the word "Roman" is the only part of your community's name which was acquired honestly. The rest is stolen goods.
colbe
Everything you know of Christ came from the Roman Catholic Church less the
OT prophesies which confirm Roman Catholicism and that is why your threads contain the faith, you can't eliminate it completely.
b) It is a brief nickname for the body whose full name is "Roman Catholic church".
The term Roman Catholic is not used by the Church herself; it is a relatively modern term, and one, moreover, that is confined largely to the English language. The English-speaking bishops at the First Vatican Council in 1870, in fact, conducted a vigorous and successful campaign to insure that the term Roman Catholic was nowhere included in any of the Council's official documents about the Church herself, and the term was not included.
…
So the proper name for the universal Church is not the Roman Catholic Church. Far from it. That term caught on mostly in English-speaking countries; it was promoted mostly by Anglicans, supporters of the "branch theory" of the Church, namely, that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church of the creed was supposed to consist of three major branches, the Anglican, the Orthodox and the so-called Roman Catholic. It was to avoid that kind of interpretation that the English-speaking bishops at Vatican I succeeded in warning the Church away from ever using the term officially herself: It too easily could be misunderstood.
b) It is a brief nickname for the body popularly known as "the Roman Catholic church".
When an amoeba divides, who is to say which is the original amoeba?
adjensen
The difference isn't between "Catholic" and "Roman Catholic", rather between "Catholic" and "catholic". The church of the Pope is the former, the universal church of all who avow the Nicene Creed is the latter.
Fine. If everybodyin your first category is willing to accept me as amember of your second category, that will do.
Pope Francis has urged Catholics and Lutherans to ask forgiveness for the harm they have caused one another.
Pope Francis was speaking during a meeting with representatives of the Lutheran World Federation and members of the Catholic-Lutheran international theological dialogue.
As the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation approaches, he said, “Catholics and Lutherans can ask forgiveness for the harm they have caused one another and for their offences committed in the sight of God”. (Source)
Source
Promises to Peter
When he first saw Simon, "Jesus looked at him, and said, ‘So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas (which means Peter)’" (John 1:42). The word Cephas is merely the transliteration of the Aramaic Kepha into Greek. Later, after Peter and the other disciples had been with Christ for some time, they went to Caesarea Philippi, where Peter made his profession of faith: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16:16). Jesus told him that this truth was specially revealed to him, and then he solemnly reiterated: "And I tell you, you are Peter" (Matt. 16:18). To this was added the promise that the Church would be founded, in some way, on Peter (Matt. 16:18).
Then two important things were told the apostle. "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19). Here Peter was singled out for the authority that provides for the forgiveness of sins and the making of disciplinary rules. Later the apostles as a whole would be given similar power [Matt.18:18], but here Peter received it in a special sense.
Peter alone was promised something else also: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 16:19). In ancient times, keys were the hallmark of authority. A walled city might have one great gate; and that gate had one great lock, worked by one great key. To be given the key to the city—an honor that exists even today, though its import is lost—meant to be given free access to and authority over the city. The city to which Peter was given the keys was the heavenly city itself. This symbolism for authority is used elsewhere in the Bible (Is. 22:22, Rev. 1:18).
Finally, after the resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples and asked Peter three times, "Do you love me?" (John 21:15-17). In repentance for his threefold denial, Peter gave a threefold affirmation of love. Then Christ, the Good Shepherd (John 10:11, 14), gave Peter the authority he earlier had promised: "Feed my sheep" (John 21:17). This specifically included the other apostles, since Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love me more than these?" (John 21:15), the word "these" referring to the other apostles who were present (John 21:2). Thus was completed the prediction made just before Jesus and his followers went for the last time to the Mount of Olives.
Immediately before his denials were predicted, Peter was told, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again [after the denials], strengthen your brethren" (Luke 22:31-32). It was Peter who Christ prayed would have faith that would not fail and that would be a guide for the others; and his prayer, being perfectly efficacious, was sure to be fulfilled.