Does Satan or Demons Exist in this world?

If demons existed, they would be the work of God; but would it be just on the part of God to have created beings condemned eternally to evil and to misery?

If demons exist, it is in your low world, and in other worlds of similar degree, that they are to be found. They are the human hypocrites who represent a just God as being cruel and vindictive, and who imagine that they make themselves agreeable to Him by the abominations they commit in His name

It is only in its modern acceptation that the word demon implies the idea of evil spirits, for the Greek work daimôn from which it is derived, signifies genius, intelligence, and is applied indiscriminately to all incorporeal beings, whether good or bad.
Demons or devils, according to the common acceptation of these words are supposed to be a class of beings essentially bad. If they exist, they must necessarily be, like everything else, a creation of God; but God, who is sovereignly just and good, cannot have created beings predestined to evil by their very nature, and condemned beforehand to eternal misery. If, on the contrary, they are not a creation of God, they must either have existed, like Him, from all eternity, or there must be several creators.

The first requisite of every theory is to be consistent with itself; but that which asserts the existence of demons, in the popular acceptation of the term, lacks this essential condition of theoretic soundness. It was natural that the religious belief of peoples, who, knowing nothing of the attributes of God, were backward enough to admit the existence of maleficent deities, should also admit the existence of demons; but, on the part of those who acknowledge the goodness of God to by His distinguishing quality, it is illogical and contradictory to suppose that He can have created beings doomed to evil, and destined to do evil forever, for such a supposition is the negation of His goodness.

The partisans of the belief in devils appeal to the words of Christ in support of their doctrine and it is certainly not we who would contest the authority of His teachings, which we would faint see established, not merely on the lips of men, but also in their hearts. But are those partisans quite sure of the meaning attached by Him to the word "devil"? Is it not fully admitted that the allegorical form is one of the distinctive characteristics of His utterances, and that the Gospels contain many things which are not to be taken literally?


Men have done in regard to devils what they have done in regard to angels. Just as they have imagined that there are beings who were created perfect from all eternity, so they have imagined that spirits of the lower degrees were beings essentially and eternally bad. The words demon, devil, ought, therefore, to be understood as indicating impure spirits who are often no better that the imaginary beings designated by those names, but with this difference, namely, that their state of impurity and inferiority is only transitory.

They are the imperfect spirits who rebel against the discipline of trial to which they are subjected, and who, therefore, have to undergo that discipline for a longer period, but who will, nevertheless, reach the goal in time, when they shall have made up their minds to do so. The words demon, devil, might accordingly be employed in this sense; but as they have come to be understood exclusively as conveying the meaning now shown to be false, their employment might lead into error by seeming to recognize the existence of beings specially created for evil.

As regards the term "Satan," it is evidently a personification of the principle of evil under an allegorical form for it is impossible to admit the existence of a being who fights against God as an independent and rival power, and whose sole business in life is to contravene His designs. As images and figures are necessary in order to strike the human imagination, men have pictured to themselves the beings of the incorporeal world under a material form, with attributes indicative of their good or bad qualities. It is thus that the ancients, wishing to personify the idea of time, represented it under the figure of an old man with a scythe and an hour-glass.

To have personified it under the figure of a youth would have been contrary to common sense. The same may be said of the allegories of Fortune, Truth, etc. The moderns have represented the angels or pure spirits under the form of radiant beings with white Wings-emblem of purity Satan, with horns, claws, and the attributes of bestiality-emblems of the lowest Passions; and the vulgar, prone to understand such representations literally, have taken these allegorical embodiments of abstract ideas for real personalities, as they formerly did in regard to the allegorical personifications of the old mythology.


-Allan Kardec

Demons are most likely just a made-up scapegoat so that Christians don't have to take credit for their misdeeds and wrongdoings. The reason I say this is because the definition of evil changes with the times. What is considered ok today could be considered vehemently evil tomorrow. A prime example is slavery. Slavery is an acceptable thing in the bible, it isn't condemned and even some of the great prophets of the bible owned slaves. Now a days, slavery is considered one of the worst things you can do to someone next to killing them. This is all thanks to evolving views on morality, not so much because demons have adopted new things to temp people with.

great threads OP. i do not subscribe to demons or satan, i do however subscribe to the dark being a real issue. an issue that can be created by beings, but something that does not exist on it's own.

Experience may, at some point, change your mind.

Krazysh0t
Demons are most likely just a made-up scapegoat so that Christians don't have to take credit for their misdeeds and wrongdoings. The reason I say this is because the definition of evil changes with the times. What is considered ok today could be considered vehemently evil tomorrow. A prime example is slavery. Slavery is an acceptable thing in the bible, it isn't condemned and even some of the great prophets of the bible owned slaves. Now a days, slavery is considered one of the worst things you can do to someone next to killing them. This is all thanks to evolving views on morality, not so much because demons have adopted new things to temp people with.

While I'm sure "demons" get blamed for plenty of things that are human caused, there are actual explainable events that occur in which *something* is responsible. Sounds like your closed mind is made up though.

reply to post by jjkenobi


Really? Care to reread the first sentence of my post? Here I'll repost part of it for you.

Demons are most likely just a made-up scapegoat

Does that sound like a definite opinion to you? Because it reads as a probability statement to me. But by all means carry on making assumptions about me based on faulty readings of my posts.

Krazysh0t
. A prime example is slavery. Slavery is an acceptable thing in the bible, it isn't condemned and even some of the great prophets of the bible owned slaves. Now a days, slavery is considered one of the worst things you can do to someone next to killing them. This is all thanks to evolving views on morality, not so much because demons have adopted new things to temp people with.

The absolute subjugation of any man to another man is contrary to the law of God. Slavery is an abuse of strength; it disappears with progress, gradually, as all other abuses will disappear.

The human law which sanctions slavery is a law against nature, because it assimilates man to the brute, and degrades him physically and morally.

I've heard a priest talk about how demons don't exist and that it was historically something used to strike fear into people believing their religion. It sounds strange that a priest would say that but he says that human intervention between the divine words of god and its followers is a curse but also a blessing to allow us to think more carefully and strengthen our beliefs. I'm not sure how much I agree with him but I think that if you are still religious after thinking about it carefully, you could in theory have a stronger relationship with god than someone that blindly follows.

But, I digress... I think demons are not like what Christians portray them but more human-like. They could be good or bad, and they could easily be misunderstood due to old beliefs. As some of you may know, I'm invested into shadow people and while some may claim they are demons, I can agree and say they may very well be but they are misunderstood and most are not evil.

If there are demons like in the bible, I would say that would be pretty cool and exciting. If we could have evidence of this, it would make life a whole lot more interesting and meaningful.

Demons are real. I"ve run into a few. I couldn't see them. But they were real .. taking up a space in reality ... 'standing' next to me ... HATE HATE HATE and it was all focused on me ..... they are very real. If you ever are in the presence of a demon, there will be no question about it ... and you'll never again say they are fake.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


I have to disagree with this. Slavery isn't denounced by God in the bible, therefore I find it unlikely that it goes against the law of God.

The Bible and slavery

But I didn't bring up slavery to talk about the evils of it or the contradictions of it in the bible. I brought it up as an example of humanity's evolving morals.

Em2013But, I digress... I think demons are not like what Christians portray them but more human-like. They could be good or bad, and they could easily be misunderstood due to old beliefs. As some of you may know, I'm invested into shadow people and while some may claim they are demons, I can agree and say they may very well be but they are misunderstood and most are not evil.

This is more or less what I believe as well. Attributing demons to being fallen angels or something makes it seem like demons (or rather spirits) are one dimensional. If humans can emote a wide range between good and evil, so should spirits. Also if you believe the bible account, in order for angels to rebel against God they would HAVE to have free will. Free will allows for someone to be anywhere at any given time on the spectrum between absolute evil and pure good.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

I have to disagree with this. Slavery isn't denounced by God in the bible, therefore I find it unlikely that it goes against the law of God.

The Bible and slavery

But I didn't bring up slavery to talk about the evils of it or the contradictions of it in the bible. I brought it up as an example of humanity's evolving morals.

Humans are given free will. They are allowed to make these choices. But it what is in their hearts as they commit these what we now call crimes that is observed and important.

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, as to the Lord, and not to men; however Masters were told to serve their slaves "in the same way" and "even better" as "brothers", to not threaten them as God is their Master as well..

"God" of the bible allows wars, famine, natural disasters. The problem here is that man has written and misinterpreted the bible. The idea of 'God' is far out and misunderstood. Man has always been allowed to do as he wishes but the nature of spirits will better man in time as you can see slavery is almost gone in our time. We progress spiritually and physically.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Agree 100%. Once you experience one personally attacking you you will never question their reality again. I've described my experiences here before, but try not to think about them if possible.

wtbengineer
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Agree 100%. Once you experience one personally attacking you you will never question their reality again. I've described my experiences here before, but try not to think about them if possible.

These sound like the 10th class of spirits. Spirits of lower order

Tenth Class--Impure Spirits.--They are inclined to evil, and make it the object o£ all their thoughts and activities. As spirits, they give to men perfidious counsels, stir up discord and distrust, and assume every sort of mask in order the more effectually to deceive. They beset those whose character is weak enough to lead them to yield to their suggestions, and whom they thus draw aside from the path of progress, rejoicing when they are to retard their advancement by causing them to succumb under the appointed trials of the corporeal life Spirits of this class may be recognized by their language, for the employment of coarse or trivial expressions by spirits, as by men, is always an indication of moral, if not of intellectual, inferiority. Their communications show the baseness of their inclinations; and though they may try to impose upon us by speaking with an appearance of reason and propriety, they are unable to keep up that false appearance, and end by betraying their real quality.

Certain nations have made of them infernal deities; others designate them by the name of demons, evil genie evil spirits. Link

Or ninth class?

Ninth Class--Frivolous Spirits.--They are ignorant, mischievous, unreasonable, and addicted to mockery. They meddle with everything, and reply to every question without paying any attention to truth. They delight in causing petty annoyances, in raising false hopes of petty joys, in misleading people by mystifications and trickery. The spirits vulgarly called hobgoblins, will-o'-the-wisps, gnomes, etc., belong to this class. They are under the orders of spirits of a higher category, who make use of them as we do of servants.

In their communications with men their language is often witty and facetious, but shallow. They are quick to seize the oddities and absurdities of men and things, on which they comment with sarcastic sharpness. If they borrow distinguished names, as they are fond of doing, it is rather for the fun of the thing than from any intention to deceive by so doing.
Link

Text Demons or devils, according to the common acceptation of these words are supposed to be a class of beings essentially bad. If they exist, they must necessarily be, like everything else, a creation of God; but God, who is sovereignly just and good, cannot have created beings predestined to evil by their very nature, and condemned beforehand to eternal misery. If, on the contrary, they are not a creation of God, they must either have existed, like Him, from all eternity, or there must be several creators.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Very good point Shadow Herder

This entire subject is naturally theological so in understanding it in that manner all opinions are not provable by any means. We are all discussing other peoples opinions as though to say that they are themselves factual when in fact they are also in the theological world.

Using the ancient literature of the bible and other outside literature as reference material , it is written that there was a war in the celestial realm after this universe was created. The angel called Lucifer (Satan) led about one third of the heavenly host against the Creator (God) and lost this war. All were cast down to this earth and were condemned to Hell where they are to this day. This is all according to most bibles.

After this event there were about 200 more angels who left the celestial realm and came to this earth on the mount of Herman. This was in the days of Enosh (not Enoch). These angels took human women as wives and bred a race of creatures which through breeding of many years procreated great giants called Nephilim. These creatures are not the creation of God but are a product of rebellion. Most all were destroyed in the flood of Noah and these are the spirits which are called demons. Demons are not fallen angels but are the spirits of the giants which angels and humans produced.

I gave no references for this but if you want references of the bible and Enoch I can give them to you.

God created Angels and as He did create Angels, those celestial beings did not procreate other Angels. Also God did not create the human race. God created the first man and woman of the human race but then it was but a matter of procreation. The faults did not lay in God but in that of which He gave choice. Naturally without choice there would be no offence. So by choice the Angels and the Adamic creation built their own understanding of existence. This shows that God has a perfect will and a permissive will.

It's worth noting that the last image in the OP is an image of Baphomet, god of fertility and wisdom. Is it any wonder that such a being might be seen as intimidating and in need of destruction by lesser powers?

These sound like the 10th class of spirits. Spirits of lower order

reply to post by Shadow Herder


This description sounds accurate. Totally hateful though, not much language skill or articulation, just stuff like "doomed, your doomed to be like this forever" as they were putting me through mental hell.

FlyersFan
Demons are real. I"ve run into a few. I couldn't see them. But they were real .. taking up a space in reality ... 'standing' next to me ... HATE HATE HATE and it was all focused on me ..... they are very real. If you ever are in the presence of a demon, there will be no question about it ... and you'll never again say they are fake.

I do agree with you that the demonic is part of this place.

I have both meet the hateful disconnected ego self in me that when feeling disconnected can be very hateful towards all that is. but normally now days people with hate (normally religious dogma where the hater cannot see the selfs hypocrisy) triggers a reaction of feedback hate from me towards the hater.

I have met several humans during my life here that are so fallen that you cannot call them anything but totally lost (close to soulless even since the soul seem to be totally paralyzed).

I think I have noticed something paranormal (normal but unquantified by humankind) trying to persuade me to be darker and more screwed up than I am. Since I have spiritual help and I am quite stubborn (that is both bad and good) from my point of view they have not succeeded. From the Op point of view I seem to have 9 level spirits that are sometimes annoying me.

If there are "really" demons around, then it can probably be assumed that when it comes to God, they're in the same boat we are. If "God" created us both, then he obviously lost interest in what happens to us a long time ago, and we're basically on our own.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

Ninth Class--Frivolous Spirits.--They are ignorant, mischievous, unreasonable, and addicted to mockery. They meddle with everything, and reply to every question without paying any attention to truth. They delight in causing petty annoyances

You've just described a fair percentage of ATS users, lol. I guess they DO exist!