Should Religious People Be Held Responsible?

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Since Americans are fat, and I am an American, I must be fat. Is this your view? Are all African Americans lawless because so many are in prison compared to other populations? According to your logic, we must judge ALL Christians because a few take the name of Christ (Character) in vain. This is simple prejudice and hatred. Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

The truth in the Bible is simple if you can see it with open eyes. The root of sin came through the first Adam. The Redeemer is the last Adam. Take a look in the mirror. Are you part of the same loaf of bread as a copy of Adam? By judging others, you are judging yourself.

winofiend

DeadSeraph
reply to post by NoRegretsEver

 

Should atheists be held responsible for their actions?

edit on 8-11-2013 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Well as far as weird and silly things go thats a classic.

Yes, people should be held responsible for thier actions. What alternative do you propose?

Wow

Atheists are singular and dont congregate en masse to claim their non god the winner, too.

Should brussel sprout eaters be helr responsible for their actions?

Oo

Well shucks... funny how they always seem to distance themselves from the communists?

The militant atheists level the finger and say: WHY DONT YOU CONDEMN YOUR VIOLENCE?

Yet when their bloodshed is pointed out, they use the same cop out they criticize religions for? "Thats not a REAL Christian." Or "Thats not a REAL muslim".

I guess the Atheists that were responsible for millions of deaths weren't "REAL" atheists either. Feel free to abandon that play in your book in the future.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Agnosticism seems like a . . . wishy washy perspective on which to base

such a hostile pogrom against the religious.

However, I'm sure the globalists will be delighted with your proposal.

They want to exterminate almost all current religions and their adherents toward the one world religion worshiping satan. So your advocated hostility toward the religious should fit right in to their schemes.

You should likely be able to join their one big happy genocidal hostile-to-religion party and efforts.

= = = =

Perhaps more to your query . . .

Why not be just as hostile to women who manipulate the laws to extort more money out of fathers while denying them visitation rights for no justifiable reason other than the mothers' greed and kaniving ruthlessness?

Or

Why not be just as hostile to the New Agers who are forever trotting people out to the desert for yet another Salvation Delivering Great Mothership scheduled to arrive and take the faithful to Never Never Land?

or

Why not be just as hostile to O's minions who continually lyingly promise pie in the sky that they never intend to deliver on?

of

Why not be just as hostile to the MSM propaganda jockey's who are so skillful at selling the populace down the river and flooding the land with deceptive, destructive, lying farcical notions horrific to the Constitution, to freedoms and to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

or

Why not be just as hostile to the incumbent politicos who are so literally hell-bent on destroying the Republic and the Western culture of the last many hundreds of years all on the fantasy that a gestapo controlled global tyranny will somehow magically turn into a warm and fuzzy thrillingly fun straight jacket?

or

Why not be just as hostile to people who propagandize that science--CONTRARY TO ALL SCIENTIFIC OBSERVATIONS--is producing ever more wonderful technologies that the spiritually lobotomized elite will magically use to transform the countryside into yet more clever ways of getting the sheeple Eloi to joyfully dance and shuffle into the hungry maws of the Morlachs without so much as a whimper?

Sigh.

Methinks you have not thought out the realities of that which you touch on . . . much less the consequences of what you advocate.

reply to post by olaru12


ATS sliding into conservatism?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Evidently you are reading an ATS from an alternate multiverse.

From the beginning, even the mods have been statistically overwhelmingly liberal.

Certainly those writing the most posts are brazenly and virulently liberal by a sizeable majority.

Sheesh.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


NOT a religion bashing thread?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, my mistake . . .

I didn't realize it was a religion cheering thread.

Howe COULD I have missed that?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

reply to post by bloodreviara


Sooooooooooooooooo,

WHEN AND WHERE

Are you and your cohorts marching in outrage

against the REALLY GENOCIDAL Marxists, atheists, globalists sooooooooo responsible for 10's of millions of cruel deaths?

OBVIOUSLY your brilliance would choose

TO MARCH FIRST AND FOREMOST against THE WORSE horrific destructiveness to individuals and freedoms!!!! OBVIOUSLY. . . . being such a person of suuuuchhhhh GREAT intellectual integrity.

PLEASE do let us know WHEN AND WHERE. I'm sure many would love to go and cheer you on.

reply to post by Lingweenie


What unmitigated nonsensical balderdash.

Christians have taken THE MOST RESPONSIBILITY

to

--raise up hospitals far and wide--particularly in the desperately needy third world.

--raise up schools and universities. IIRC ALL the Ivy league universities STARTED OUT essentially as Christian schools--many as Bible schools--including Harvard.

--meet countless disasters with the greatest per-capita aid efforts ever.

--educate most vigorously and diligently about how to have better marriages, families; rear healthier, more overcoming children into productive adults.

--establish helpful organizations and means to help alleviate addictive traumas . . . from the Salvation Army to Teen Challenge.

By comparison and contrast, the best the Atheist sorts of organizations can point to are horrific wars, tyrannical regimes and vigorous evangelization efforts attacking Christianity. What a record of RESPONSIBLE CONSTRUCTIVISM that history is! /sarc.

I used to think that some such folks at least had SOME degree of cleverness between their ears. I'm having to adjust that idea markedly downwards.

Well ... lets take Westboro Baptist as an example ...

Blame the cult because it's preaching the hate.
Blame the people in the cult because they buy into it and push it.
(except the kids who were born into it and dont' know any better .. thats a different story)

I guess both are to blame.
Is that what you mean, OP ??

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I have God's love in my heart, I don't push it on people and I don't care if you do or do not choose to share in it. We each have our own path to inner peace and your journey is simply different to mine.

What I don't get is why you care what I believe in? I'm happy, I'm not asking you to change and my beliefs promote good will to others and kindness. My faith has no impact on your life whatsoever.

So why would you want to take that happiness away from me? Why do you want to stop me sending love, good will and kindness to others? What's in it for you?

Are you scared of me? Do you fear a world built on love and kindness? Seriously.. why can't you just focus on your own life and stop worrying about mine? Do I actually matter to you?

If your life sucks so much cause you cant stand to see people being happy or supporting each other, you have to ask if you deserve any happiness yourself. Is it all just jealousy and will sending out hate ever help?

Maybe this is why you seek to blame me for your unhappiness. You can't face asking yourself why you are unhappy or admit to be wrong, so instead seek to punish someone who thinks differently instead?

Or maybe you're just the evil that my stupid fake religion warns me of?

Either way, have some love from me. You can take it on board as a gift, as intended, and use it to make yourself feel better, or you can shove it and use anger to bring more hate and unhappiness into your life.

Either way, it's YOU deciding to be happy or unhappy.

Well let me say I am NOT disappointed. No matter how short, direct and nonthreatening a thread, almost all responses take the low road of misunderstanding and frankly rude behavior which surprise, surprise, was the reason for the thread in the first place.

But I would like to answer Flyers Fan as even if their inquiry was disingenuous, they asked for me to elaborate instead of going on, and on, post after post of the "fantastical martyrdom" that so many seem to possess (oh and I chose that word for a reason).

Well ... lets take Westboro Baptist as an example ...

Blame the cult because it's preaching the hate.
Blame the people in the cult because they buy into it and push it.
(except the kids who were born into it and dont' know any better .. thats a different story)

I guess both are to blame.
Is that what you mean, OP ??

Westboro is a good example. The word "blame" is not what I mean, I mean do religious people understand that people like them (WB), with the most controversy and loudest mouths are openly claiming to represent the whole, and that this the message that nonreligious see the most.

The stories that "dominate" the religious is far from lovely, and yes, even including some of the reactions in this thread, when having to accept the flaws of people, and the message hasn't change, there is an immediate reaction of nonacceptance, and honestly ignorance, and make the questions that I had in the OP to show all their true light.

BTW, all of those that are insistent on writing some seriously lets say questionable things, I dont bother that easy, you have managed to prove my point, and the next time someone seems agitated, confused, and think that religious folks may be a little messed up, please realize that its has something to do with you!

Im am surprised I didnt see more "FIRE AND BRIMSTONE" comments. Or maybe Im still early.

NRE.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver

So here it is. Should religious people be held responsible for the feelings of the non-religious? Now the reason why I ask, is that the teachings of religion, the stories, people, places, well... they are written in black and white. This is the same as a classroom all learning from the same book, they should all have the same idea, or at least understanding of the topic... right?

I think this is a good question, NRE. Not an easy one to answer, though. On the one hand, I believe we are all responsible for how we feel. Because how we feel is a choice. Whether I'm happy or angry. I chose to feel that way.
On the other hand, feelings are contagious. We can be infected, and affected, by other peoples emotions and feelings. That said...

In my mind, the answer to your question is, yes and no.

Yes, because I, being an atheist, see the reaction from even those who aren't practicing religion, but believe in a deity. The reaction is one of horror usually. I might note, it is mostly the same reaction I had when I was a religious man. "How could anyone not believe in God? There must be something wrong with that person." My point being, I live in a country that is predominantly Christian. Therefore, I feel those who are not Christian, or Christian leaning, are looked down upon as lesser human beings by the majority, and there is something wrong with you if you are anything other than what the group believes you should be.

No, because at this time, I may have to tolerate Christians knocking on my door, or jeering from the self-righteous ones, or the look of horror when I am put in a position of having to say I'm an atheist, or walking away at family get togethers when they say grace, because I won't be a part of it. I still am responsible for how I feel. I do not have to hate. However the religious majority may view me, is their problem. Just as how I view them is my problem. Not theirs.

There is so much I could say to this question, but I'll leave it there for now.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I think you raise a very good question and it doesn't have any easy answer. In the most general terms, I'd say No. Non-Believers, to whatever Faith (or all Faith) dont' have any right to hold Believers responsible for their own personal feelings or issues, either for or against.

While that sounds like a nice and simple way to leave it, it sure doesn't cover it. Given that all Faiths have a self-enlightened interest in seeing their Word spread to others, it gets complex quickly.

So, I'd simply say this. Those Religious people who don't push or force it on others have nothing to be blamed for or for any animosity to be directed toward. Those who push their beliefs, especially after being made aware it isn't welcome or appreciated, DO deserve whatever hard feelings they get in return. Likewise, I'd say the Non-Believer has every right to express some pretty clear and firm feelings of rejection to the whole Faith being pushed, at the time.

......This can't really apply without the reverse also being true though. People of Faith have the same right to express their dislike and/or lack of respect for Non-Believers who seek out the opportunity to push that position on the Faithful.

Either side has the right to believe or not, any way they choose ..just not to insist others follow, IMO.

reply to post by Klassified


Thank you so much for understanding, that was a fantastic response, and I do it see it both ways as well, thats why I proposed the question in the first place, wow the agnostic and atheist seem to be the most polite, who would have thunk it???

Peace, NRE.

FlyersFan
Well ... lets take Westboro Baptist as an example ...

Blame the cult because it's preaching the hate.
Blame the people in the cult because they buy into it and push it.
(except the kids who were born into it and dont' know any better .. thats a different story)

I guess both are to blame.
Is that what you mean, OP ??

I think that raises an outstanding example to note how "religion" by name can by anything but in practice. In reality, the W.B.C. is as much a Church as a lemonade stand is a Market. They are an incestuous (literally by blood, in their case) cult, so far removed from their namesake of the Baptist Church, even the Baptists recoil when compared to them.

They force their beliefs down people's throats so directly and aggressively, entire towns are documented as working together to block and obstruct the WBC's ability to function in protests.

So, if an Ahtheist who may not have much familiarity with Christians or Baptists in particular were to encounter those people first? The result would be hard to blame the person for, in forming horrible opinions of everything the WBC claims to "represent". It really ilustrates how complex the whole question is, doesn't it?

BO XIAN


Christians have taken THE MOST RESPONSIBILITY

to

--raise up hospitals far and wide--particularly in the desperately needy third world.

The vast majority of hospitals built throughout the world are not 'Christian' but secular, thankfully. What use would a misogynistic, homophobic and ignorant hospital be to anyone anywhere?

--raise up schools and universities. IIRC ALL the Ivy league universities STARTED OUT essentially as Christian schools--many as Bible schools--including Harvard.

Yes they started out (love your use of the caps button btw, not at all obnoxious) teaching nothing but bible studies (referred to as 'the dark ages') but now they have thankfully shed that superstitious nonsense and teach students a wide range of subjects...

--meet countless disasters with the greatest per-capita aid efforts ever.

See this is what happens when a persons only source of information is conservapedia.....

--educate most vigorously and diligently about how to have better marriages, families; rear healthier, more overcoming children into productive adults.

Just as many Christians get divorced or arrested as any other group, including Atheists. Infact many studies have shown that Christians divorce and break up families more often...

--establish helpful organizations and means to help alleviate addictive traumas . . . from the Salvation Army to Teen Challenge.

There's nothing intrinsically Christian about the setup and running of Charitable organisations though is there.....

By comparison and contrast, the best the Atheist sorts of organizations can point to are horrific wars, tyrannical regimes and vigorous evangelization efforts attacking Christianity. What a record of RESPONSIBLE CONSTRUCTIVISM that history is! /sarc.

Of course you're pulling out the same old ignorant and desperate Christian line here, while conveniently forgetting about the native american holocaust, you know the one carried out by the largely Christian settlers?

I used to think that some such folks at least had SOME degree of cleverness between their ears. I'm having to adjust that idea markedly downwards.

Well you do seem to be a person of remarkable 'cleverness'....

What a sticky and unfair question.

You want to know if you should hold us responsible for your feelings because we are pushing our faith on you? So you go and ask a thread that invites us to comment. You realize that every single poster here who has faith and comments you could now hold responsible for entrenching the anti-faith feelings you and every other anti-faith poster on this thread has?

Not only that, but this hasn't really done much to advance our (the faith crowd's) feelings of peace and love toward you who are anti-faith.

This is sort of dishonest of you, IMO.

olaru12
reply to post by NoRegretsEver

 

As ATS slides more and more into the Conservative Right wing model, the evangelical Christians are sure to follow because They mostly share the same mind set, agenda, politics and cosmology.

Everyone, not just Christians or the religious in general need to take responsibility for their thoughts, actions and the consequences of their behavior.

However it is very convienient to have a ready made scapgoat built into your religion....."the devil made me do it"

edit on 8-11-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

The devil made me do it is a lazy response and one not acceptable of accountability or responsibility.

That's not built into Christianity, some Christians just evolved their worldview to include it. And certainly the Jews never say that.

The devil made me do it...blah.

If I type this gngihwhhog;se...the devil didn't make me do it, my own intellect did.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


When I first heard of Westboro Baptist, I thought it was a joke. Seriously, I thought it really was. When I learned they were apparently a real church, I still thought it was a joke. And I'm a Christian.....

Are they for real???? That's what I ask myself all the time. They must be real then and it's not a joke. And if it is a joke, it's a very bad one.

Are they for real???

OK give them the Jesus facepalm, this Christian would laugh at that.

WarminIndy
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

When I first heard of Westboro Baptist, I thought it was a joke. Seriously, I thought it really was. When I learned they were apparently a real church, I still thought it was a joke. And I'm a Christian.....

Are they for real???? That's what I ask myself all the time. They must be real then and it's not a joke. And if it is a joke, it's a very bad one.

Are they for real???

OK give them the Jesus facepalm, this Christian would laugh at that.

My understanding of Westboro as someone who grew up in Kansas is that the Phelps family is a pack of lawyers. They use the church sort of like a cult. They intentionally do the most offensive things they can think of in order to try to provoke incidents they can litigate over. It's like a big scam.

They are also so universally despised that it's considered bad taste to try to stick them to any group of people to tar their reputation.

No, Phelps and his crowd are one of the most unfortunate side effects of living in a free country.

ketsuko

WarminIndy
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

When I first heard of Westboro Baptist, I thought it was a joke. Seriously, I thought it really was. When I learned they were apparently a real church, I still thought it was a joke. And I'm a Christian.....

Are they for real???? That's what I ask myself all the time. They must be real then and it's not a joke. And if it is a joke, it's a very bad one.

Are they for real???

OK give them the Jesus facepalm, this Christian would laugh at that.

My understanding of Westboro as someone who grew up in Kansas is that the Phelps family is a pack of lawyers. They use the church sort of like a cult. They intentionally do the most offensive things they can think of in order to try to provoke incidents they can litigate over. It's like a big scam.

They are also so universally despised that it's considered bad taste to try to stick them to any group of people to tar their reputation.

No, Phelps and his crowd are one of the most unfortunate side effects of living in a free country.

I can see that, they are fringe religious cult. A lot of cults do that to every religion. It's in more than Christianity.

David Koresh was leader of a fringe cult from the Seventh Day Adventists, and I don't think Seventh Day Adventists are that nuts, sure they say some strange things at times, but overall they don't seem to be dangerous. Mormons have fringe cult offshoots as well.

So this is why Christians can say those cult leaders and followers are not Christians, because their leader has become Christ to them.