Did Exodus Really Happen? Most likely NOT

books.google.com... UVHQaD&sig=NQrHvfgBnrBtm68dDbl_OQUJNc8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bj19UsS8K_LYyQH9goHYBQ&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ancient%20branding%20iron%20for%20runaway%20sl aves%20the%20Schoyen%20collection&f=false

slavery and labor law in the ancient near east

Branding iron and Samaritan document for the sale of Hebrew slave

www.schoyencollection.com...

reply to post by randyvs


Nothing is preventing a book about fake events to impart good wisdom. I have gotten good advise or new ways to look at things while reading or watching many different fictional stories. For instance, it wasn't until I read the Area 51 series of books that I became aware of the Ancient Alien theory (well idea in those books, not so much a theory). The speech Al Pacino gives at the end of Any Given Sunday is probably my favorite motivational sports speech I've ever heard (and let me tell you if I was sitting in that lockerroom, after halftime I'd be ready to go rip some heads off). But in the end, these are all still works of fiction.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

after halftime I'd be ready to go rip some heads off)

You may no longer entertain any thought that I
don't respect your resolve. Seems odd that both sides
be waiting for confirming evidences to be pulled from
the Earth someday. Hard to say even, which is more the
likely, from a nuetral view. Of course I doubt the common
ancestor more when in gear.

Appendix 2. The Route of the Exodus.
by Dr. Ralph F. Wilson

www.jesuswalk.com...

FlyersFan

Agree2Disagree
Archaeology is the art of finding a needle in a hay stack...so just because you may not have the evidence yet...doesn't mean it isn't there....Add in thousands of years of elements and decay...and that needle gets awfully hard to find...

Evidence of two million people living in the desert for 40 years does't just decay and it's more than 'a needle in the haystack'. The desert preserves things. There were no bones of the dead ... no pottery ... no bones of animals that were kept or eaten .... nothing. And there was no evidence in Egypt. If two million people got up and left, it would have been recorded and there would have been a HUGE financial hit. But there is nothing. And if the Egyptian army was lost at sea, it would have been recorded. And Egypt would have suffered militarily but instead the exact opposite happened. All evidence suggests the story didn't happen.

Can you explain your interest in the Exodus please? Why would it bother you if it didn't happen? Why would it bother you if it did?

My interest is IRRELEVANT to the discussion. But I'll say it anyways .... TRUTH. TRUTH is my interest. Pure and simple truth .. no matter where it goes ...

Does it pose a threat to your beliefs?

WHY would it? That would be silly. My belief in God and Christ isn't based on folklore.

Unfortunately, as far as archaeology is concerned, rarely is anything well preserved or even found for that matter. Excavating the desert...Where do we begin? It's the desert for crying out loud...We have few mentions of places where they may have stayed...but no actual route...that's why they "wandered" the desert you know...

There is NO evidence to support the claim that it DID NOT happen. There is simply a lack of evidence that it did, but we all know that a lack of evidence does not disprove anything....As a crude example- We have never found a harp with the inscribed name of David upon it...but that does not PROVE that David did not play a harp....The bible says David was musically gifted...We don't have any archaeological evidence to support this claim that I'm aware of...nor do we have any evidence to suggest otherwise....

Either way, whether you believe in a legitimate exodus or a fictional one...there is as of now, nothing we can REALLY do to determine which side is correct other than to speculate...which is exactly what we're doing.

There has been ZERO evidence proposed for either side...evidence that would be accepted scientifically that is....

On another note...It has always fascinated me how a significant portion of the members here at ATS have no quarrels when it comes to claims of Bigfoot, ET, NWO...even a large percentage of Irish individuals actually believe in LEPRECHAUNS...but man...the Exodus..."THATS AN OUTLANDISH CLAIM..NO WAY IT HAPPENED HUH UH"...Really? Why is that?

A2D

Krazysh0t
That would be fine if you look at the evidence in a vacuum. Though there is more then just a lack of Egyptians documenting the plagues that raises the question if this happened. First the Jews were supposed to be slaves, where is the documentation of a large economic downturn after 600,000+ slaves up and disappeared (regardless if the Egyptians acknowledged the Hebrew God and the plagues, they'd definitely notice a population decrease of that magnitude even down to the peasant level).

What about the documentation to even corroborate that the Jews were slaves to begin with? Certainly the Egyptians would have documented their slave population even before all this went down. What about all the evidence to suggest that the pyramids weren't built by slaves but by freemen laboring during planting offseasons?

A few points.

1. There are times in the history of ancient Egypt that the nation was basically in shambles. I gave you an example in my earlier post with the pharaoh that followed Thutmose III. Furthermore, there are plenty of times throughout the history of Egypt where they were down on their luck for reasons people don't really know. Because of an Exodus? Because of a civil war? Because of an assassination? A lot of Egyptian archeology is theorized and not concrete. Some historians even reject the current chronology and suppose that dates of reigning Pharaohs needs to be adjusted by hundreds of years.

2. Again, Egyptian records are woefully incomplete. Just because a census hasn't been found that evidenced a lack of Hebrew slaves doesn't really mean anything at this point. There are certainly documentations of slaves, but in those numbers they're not so accurate that you can see "ok they had this many slaves in this year and we know exactly what happens to all of those slaves." The records just aren't there. And that's neverminding the fact that we don't even know what the Egyptians would have referred to the Hebrews as. We know they mention Israel as a tribe of people during a post Exodus period, but we have no way of knowing if they referred to their slaves as Israel or Hebrew or whatever much earlier.

3. No one is saying the Hebrews built the pyramids. In fact, historians of late seem to contend that the pyramids were built by actual workers and not slaves. Does that mean Egypt never had slaves? Of course not.

reply to post by AHerald


Dr. Huwass isn't telling everything in the "Official" story....

and

God may have built the Great Pyramid...or a Fallen...

It is older than time itself....

All other pyramids try to mirror or mimic it.

Shapeshifters....

The truth is truly out there!!

Genesis 2 KJV

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

LogarockIt is all supposed to be taken literally. Even the meanings of the allegorical and symbolic were to be applied literally.

That's your belief, and plenty of people, including devout Christians, disagree with you. How do you "know" you've got it right and they're all wrong?

LogarockWe all use allegory and symbolic speech everyday. One may say "wow that guy has his head up his azz". It will take a child a few times or longer to figure this out if they hear it on a regular basis.

Yes, allegory and symbolic speech are indeed very common, and, by nature, these devices are not meant to be taken literally. Taking your metaphor literally would imply that the man in question actually has his head inside his rectal orifice. Taking your metaphor as a metaphor would imply that the man is oblivious to the problems occurring around him. You said above that the "meanings" of the Bible's allegories and symbolism were supposed to be taken literally, but therein lies the rub - their meanings are not always clear, leaving room for interpretation. Differing and sometimes wildly contradictory interpretations abound, even amongst Bible scholars. No ultimate consensus exists. You believe your version of "the truth" is correct, but countless others disagree with you and are just as convinced that they're in the right.

@OP.....''did the exodus happen?'' step into a time machine if you want to confirm. Posting links to ''research'' inclined to show it didn't happen really doesn't mean anything when it is countered by research showing it DID happen. ........................................................................ If you insist on solid arcaelogical and historical evidence for everything, apply the same to the bits and pieces of the bible that you believe in. Example - besides mention in the bible, there is zero evidence for Jesus' virgin birth, his resurrection or his being part of a trinity. So why believe such ideas? .....................................................................You say the Exodus of Moses people didn't happen because of lack of evidence. Yet you wholeheartedly accept other biblical ideas out of sheer faith. Why apply ''faith'' to accept some parts of the bible.... and demand ''evidence'' and ''scholarly research for others?

sk0rpi0n
there is zero evidence for Jesus' virgin birth, his resurrection or his being part of a trinity. So why believe such ideas?

There is zero evidence for Muhammad actually being a prophet of God, in fact the evidence supports just the exact opposite. So why believe in such ideas?

MY RELIGIOUS/SPIRITUAL BELIEFS ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE TOPIC ... so stop deflecting.
Did Exodus happen? Easy question for those capable of discussing facts ...

reply to post by FlyersFan

There is zero evidence for Muhammad actually being a prophet of God, in

Here is where faith comes in. I believe WITH FAITH that

a) Mohammad was a prophet
b) Exodus happened.
c) Jesus was born of a virgin

You demand evidence for a) and b)... but believe c) out of sheer faith.
So how about you dismiss your belief in c) as well.

So,for the atheists reading your threads... try and provide evidence of Jesus' virgin birth.

reply to post by FlyersFan


There is supposedly some satellite footage of a trail, I am looking for a reliable source,if you recall there are such things now that can detect things hidden for thousands of years.

example
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Deflection failure. This thread is about EXODUS.
If YOU want to believe in something that can be proven false .... go right ahead.
Knock yourself out. Enjoy it. Wallow in it. I don't care.



ON TOPIC -
The question remains .... DID IT HAPPEN? Not 'does your faith say it did'. But ... DID IT ??
The question .. did it happen? We are exploring the evidence both pro and con for it.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


You've just tickled my memory.
I remember hearing about that a while back. Like on the History Channel or something.
I'll have to google around and see if I can find something on it.
A possible trail - thousands and thousands of years old - seen from space.

seems to me one would have a real task to link any satalite observation specifically to the exodus

hey look a timber half buried in the desert
its the ark!

One must consider the possibility of the Exodus occurring at an earlier date than the Traditional timeframe. One possible early date for the Exodus is at the end of Egypt's Old Kingdom period. The Book of Yasher details the Pharaoh of the Oppression having a Ninety-Four to Ninety-Six Year reign. He assumed the Throne at six years old. It tells of a Pygmy tribesman being presented in his court when he was eight years old. Egyptian records confirm happened to Pepi the second. Lightcatcher Productions 'The Riddle of the Exodus' video and Book by James Long.

reply to post by FlyersFan


God is able to provide, he provided food for them and manna,

I have no problem believing it, and no I do not see any of the Holy Scriptures as ridiculous folklore, mainly because I have witnessed the sheer POWER of God, as well as his Omnipresence, his Providence and his Sovereign Preeminence firsthand.

I grew up in a non-religious household and I held to staunch atheistic worldviews until the age of 19, from 19 to 21 I was serving in the United States Military and I started seeking God, I was tossed to and fro by various doctrines and beliefs, swinging between atheism, agnosticism and Protestant Christian thought/belief,

At the age of 22 I had an earth shattering, worldview changing mystical encounter with the Almighty, in the years since I have continually searched and dug deeper for Truth, spending 12 - 16 hours a day many days researching, reading books on comparitive theology, world religions, and various denominations of Christianity.

I am FAR from your "typical" Christian who was brought up in a specific church and believe in my religion and my specific denomination "just because that was how I was raised"....

God bless

FlyersFan
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

You've just tickled my memory.
I remember hearing about that a while back. Like on the History Channel or something.
I'll have to google around and see if I can find something on it.
A possible trail - thousands and thousands of years old - seen from space.

I found some sources, but they all say the images are gone.

Danbones
seems to me one would have a real task to link any satalite observation specifically to the exodus

hey look a timber half buried in the desert
its the ark!

That's true, and I agree, but they don't seem to have a problem with other assumption and linking it to ancient towns once considered fable.

We are not going to prove anything one way or the other unless some earth shattering evidence is found, but what we can do it piece together what we do know.

Even when evidence supporting biblical history is presented people don't want to believe it, and a lot of evidence from the holy land has been purposely destroyed, and still is being purposely destroyed.

Both the Indo-Aryans and the Iranians are rather conservative peoples, which means that a good number of their original common beliefs and customs lived on into historical times, perhaps more in Iran than in India, since the geographical and climatic conditions of the regions inhabited by the Iranians on the whole were more similar to those of the Proto-Aryan habitat. This homogeneity of the two Aryan peoples is seen most clearly in matters of religion, mythology, and cult, and is still reflected in their oldest and most archaic texts, though religious reforms, mainly that of Zarathushtra, have caused more or less important changes. This is the case of Indo-Ir. *daiva-, which has preserved its original meaning “god” in OInd. devá-, but has become “demon” in Iranian (Av. daēuua-, Old Pers. daiva-).

www.iranicaonline.org...

the root "dai" - diety

I'm going to guess the original story was aryan