Salvation for Dummies - The hypocrisy of the Self-Righteous Christian

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I have tried to answer this, but it requires a paradigm shift in understanding for you to get it. Baptism is the immersion of the soul into the material world. When Jesus told Nicodemus that a person must be born again, he was being literal. You are asking me if I have been born again. Yes. Anyone who is in the waters of baptism here in this world has been born again.

But your wrong again IMO, on what you’ve written above. Jesus wasn’t being literal with his “born again” statement, which is probably the reason why you’re having a hard time answering my question.

Jesus used the term “born again” as a comparison/parallel between a new born baby, and that of becoming a new creation, when a person becomes born from above/God, and made into a new creation. In other words, it’s not about literal new born baby, but about becoming a new spiritual creation, on the day one receives the Holy Spirit.

In fact, to make this simpler, have you received the “Holy Spirit” which Jesus promises believers in him, will receive?


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

If you never stated this, then who is the scapegoat, you were referring too, in your post below…


Here’s your original post again…

I will ask you what Moses witnessed in the middle of the thorn bush? Was a crown of thorns placed on the head of Christ? Christ was the fire in the middle of the thorns. Who was caught in the thicket? Not Christ. Those who placed the thorns on the King's head.

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[c] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Deuteronomy 4

15 You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

---Name the things made with technology from the list above. What images have we made with our fruit of knowledge? Why are we killing the earth with our technology that cannot be born again? We have become corrupt by the work of those who build the temple. V. 16-19. Remember, Carbon is the mark of mankind from Revelation 13. It has 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons. We use it for our fruit of knowledge. Our fruit is corrupt. It kills the breath. Nitrogen has 777 and Oxygen has 888. Both of these numbers fuel God's technology of biology. It is a perfected system. Carbon chokes the system. In the day we take from the fruit in the middle of the garden (Oil), we will die. Genesis 3 was clear, but hidden until our day and age. Now we know.

Water puts out the fires of the refinery. Who has refused the work of the Chief Cornerstone? Builders (Masons). Who does the topic in Matthew 3 concern? Experts in the Law, High Priests, Builders, Moneychangers. This is the short list. In Luke, the parallel passage covers members of the general public who refuse the work of baptism.

Baptism is the key. The first resurrection is now. 7 billion souls are here to see the culmination of the last 2000 years and the consummation of the fallen beings (Scapegoats). Remember one thing. Jesus escaped death. He spent the last 2000 years paying our price. He is Jonah praying to the Lord in chapter 2. See this thread on Jonah's Prayer...

Enoch One


’Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who
have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves 12 with them in all their
uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of
their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of
their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is
consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: (and) 14 to the torment and
the prison in which they shall be confined for ever.

Enoch was taken at 19 jubilees past Adam's birth. That's 950 years. A generation is the precession of the Earth divided by the degrees of the circle. 25920 / 360 = 72. 70 generations of this clock is 5040 years. Add this to Enoch's time of exit and you get the end of the Mayan Calender. The Watchers left this longcount calendar of 5125 years at the time they were informed of the events to come. Additionally, we have a third witness. Israel becomes a nation in 1948. In Matthew 24, Jesus states that these days would be shortened. Add 1948 and 72. What do you get? 2020. Shorten the days and you get 7 years beyond 2012.9, which is 33 degrees in nautical miles. 33 degrees of the Builders is 2012.9 miles. Measure from the pyramid at the Louver in Paris to the Great pyramids and you have 2012.9 miles. Why? The same reason Mt. Herman is 33.33 X 33.33 degrees using Paris Prime Meridian. Enoch stated that the Watchers fell at Mt. Herman.

How old was Christ when he was crucified? 33. How many vertebrate do you have? 33. What was the date of the crucifiction? March 3, 33AD. I could keep going, but the point is the target the numbers reveal.

We have many witnesses. Witnesses

Do you need evidence from our own day and age? Who has corrupted the Earth today? Private associations (Masonry / Builders). High Priests (Roman Catholic Church). Moneychangers (Central Bankers and Family Cartels). Lawyers / Politicians (Experts in the Law).

God places us where he intends us to be in life. I'm a teacher. I am also a sinner trying to repent of my own personal faults. Water puts out fire. 1000 years remain, free from the corruption of the goat.

Revelation 20

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

When does this happen? On the day of rest. NOW!

When you see Christians martyred for their witness, you will know I was right. Faith brings the flood of water. I choose the water. Before you think the Christian takes the easy way out, remember what happens to Christians above. We willingly bear the cup and share the body of Christ. That body will be crucified.

Now, let's answer your question: who is the scapegoat? When the crown of thorns is placed on the Christians' heads, who enters the fire? Who has enters the water? Who gets to keep the Son (Bet Nun / House of Seed)? Abraham kept his Son from faith. So will those who are crowned kings. Faith is the key.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


This is the result of not wanting to give an answer. Name the chapter or verse within Hebrews and I will gladly take a look. So far, it only looks like you have no answer to the contradiction.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You have gone DEEP into the rabbit hole, very deep. You should really think about getting out. All these things you mention are only distractions to keep you away from the really important questions.

Men are very crafty and smart, and it seems they have pulled you into their word game quite nicely. What you are trying to push here is extremely complicated and convoluted beyond reason. The truth is simple, what you are pushing is not. Think about the mind games they have played with you here, they have twisted your mind.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Good thread but you are misleading all who reads your thread about sin and how we cannot stop sinning. Not only do I disagree with this but so does the teachings of the bible.

Roman 16:17 - I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

We are all sinners, born into sin with a dead spirit and we are to stop sinning. Since the fall of mankind we all are born with a dead spirit. But once you accept Christ everything changes! The way I read your thread you make it sound like we are unable to stop sinning and this is a false teaching and you are wrong.

According to your teaching then the prostitute or the thief has no reason to stop sinning but to continue with their profession because according to you we cannot stop sinning. This is the message I got from your thread. So the drug addict or alcoholic searching for answers can accept their addiction and continue living with their sins.

Gal. 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

You claim to be a man of God and I believe you are; just confused about what sin is and how to stop sinning. My brother what you have done is a sin. So repent and ask God for forgiveness.

Luke 17:3-4 So watch yourselves! “If another believer sins, rebuke that person; then if there is repentance, forgive. Even if that person wrongs you seven times a day and each time turns again and asks forgiveness, you must forgive.”

1 John 1:7-9 But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

Colossians 3:5-6 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

HOW TO RECEIVE & KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

Admit – that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior (Rom 6:23)

Abandon – self-effort and realize that you can not be saved by your works or your own efforts (Acts 16:31)

Accept freely Christ’s payment for your sins, required of the Father (John 3:16)

Acknowledge Jesus Christ as your personal lord and Savior (Acts 4:12)

To those of you who seek freedom from sin and want to fight the battle of the flesh and learn how visit my thread concerning this issue. www.abovetopsecret.com...

You can download the pamphlet for free at: www.dropbox.com...

ENOCHWASRIGHT – In no way am I trying to embarrass you or upset you but I caution you about teachings of men and their traditions.

God bless you.

Joecroft
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
I have tried to answer this, but it requires a paradigm shift in understanding for you to get it. Baptism is the immersion of the soul into the material world. When Jesus told Nicodemus that a person must be born again, he was being literal. You are asking me if I have been born again. Yes. Anyone who is in the waters of baptism here in this world has been born again.

But your wrong again IMO, on what you’ve written above. Jesus wasn’t being literal with his “born again” statement, which is probably the reason why you’re having a hard time answering my question.

Jesus used the term “born again” as a comparison/parallel between a new born baby, and that of becoming a new creation, when a person becomes born from above/God, and made into a new creation. In other words, it’s not about literal new born baby, but about becoming a new spiritual creation, on the day one receives the Holy Spirit.

In fact, to make this simpler, have you received the “Holy Spirit” which Jesus promises believers in him, will receive?


- JC

What does this mean from Isaiah 26?

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Notice the reference to Dew and Rain in the morning. Compare this to 1 Kings 17:

17 Now Elijah the Tishbite, from Tishbe[a] in Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord, the God of Israel, lives, whom I serve, there will be neither dew nor rain in the next few years except at my word.”

Notice what Elijah does. He turns off the Dew and Rain. Dew is symbolism for drops of water representing our immersion into the waters of life. What happens next?

17 Some time later the son of the woman who owned the house became ill. He grew worse and worse, and finally stopped breathing. 18 She said to Elijah, “What do you have against me, man of God? Did you come to remind me of my sin and kill my son?”

19 “Give me your son,” Elijah replied. He took him from her arms, carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him on his bed. 20 Then he cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, have you brought tragedy even on this widow I am staying with, by causing her son to die?” 21 Then he stretched himself out on the boy three times and cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, let this boy’s life return to him!”

22 The Lord heard Elijah’s cry, and the boy’s life returned to him, and he lived. 23 Elijah picked up the child and carried him down from the room into the house. He gave him to his mother and said, “Look, your son is alive!”

24 Then the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the Lord from your mouth is the truth.”

---Elijah takes the boy up stairs, restores his soul, then brings him back down to the mother. What is this a picture of? Baptism. Later, the disciples ask John if he is Elijah. He says now, but then claims to be the one who prepares the way and cries in the wilderness. They then ask Jesus. Jesus says he is Elijah. What was John / Elijah doing? Baptizing. Why did Elijah need to be taken rather than die? Jesus needed to be the first born from the dead. Elijah never died.

I will not convince you, especially if you have not taken on the name of Christ yourself. You will be blinded to most of this. Scripture (1 Corinthians 1-3) makes it clear that the unsaved world will see the wisdom of God as foolishness. If you ever make the move to extend your mind to faith, taking on the name of Christ then opens your eyes.

There are many more scriptures I could show you. For instance, Job 2.

Job 2

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!”

Satan replied, "Skin for Skin." What does this mean? He was implying that the children would be back, which did happen at the end. A snake sheds his skin, but the snake is still the same inside. This was a reference from the lips of a serpent.

From Job 33

23 Yet if there is an angel at their side,
a messenger, one out of a thousand,
sent to tell them how to be upright,
24 and he is gracious to that person and says to God,
‘Spare them from going down to the pit;
I have found a ransom for them—
25 let their flesh be renewed like a child’s;
let them be restored as in the days of their youth’—
26 then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.
27 And they will go to others and say,
‘I have sinned, I have perverted what is right,
but I did not get what I deserved.
28 God has delivered me from going down to the pit,
and I shall live to enjoy the light of life.’

29 “God does all these things to a person—
twice, even three times—
30 to turn them back from the pit,
that the light of life may shine on them.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

This is the result of not wanting to give an answer. Name the chapter or verse within Hebrews and I will gladly take a look. So far, it only looks like you have no answer to the contradiction.

Not interested. I have participated in conversations with you enough to know that your loaded questions lead to twisting of what is said. I will decline.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You have gone DEEP into the rabbit hole, very deep. You should really think about getting out. All these things you mention are only distractions to keep you away from the really important questions.

Men are very crafty and smart, and it seems they have pulled you into their word game quite nicely. What you are trying to push here is extremely complicated and convoluted beyond reason. The truth is simple, what you are pushing is not. Think about the mind games they have played with you here, they have twisted your mind.

You will see what you are prepared to see.

reply to post by Fraudfinder


Paul agrees with me:

Romans 7

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

So does John:

1 John

8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Here is the point. If we could stop sinning, the the work of Christ is not necessary. Do you still sin? Of course you do, but you are not dead to sin. You are made alive by Christ. This does not keep you from sinning. If you say you are without sin, you deceive yourself.

Romans 3

9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Because you can't explain away the contradiction.

A moldy loaf of bread has no mold at all according to you. Why? Doesn't matter, it just doesn't, take it or leave it.

All you have to do is point out the chapter or verse in Hebrews, but apparently that is too big of a task. My question isn't loaded at all, you just choose to see it that way because you can't explain it. You call it loaded to justify your inability to answer it.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong and the answer is in Hebrews. Somehow I doubt it though.

EnochWasRight
When a Christian proclaims salvation in Christ, we are not demonstrating this salvation as freedom from sin. This is a mistaken view that the unbelieving world holds. We are not free from sin any more than an Atheist. Conversely, an Atheist has the capacity to live a wholesome life leading to a higher standard of righteous behavior. Claiming something does not relieve a person from the task of acting on that belief. Our own works are not the point of salvation, but they ARE a product of it. Believers are set free from sin and death at a later date. This is true. In the mean time, our lives must show evidence of this salvation. The only thing we have is a hope of this salvation in the future. Hope in salvation is what sets the believer apart from those who do not profess faith and belief in God. Sin will still be present.

edit on 25-10-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

I do beleive that Paul taught that the power of sin is broken in the beleivers life by the work of the cross.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The entire book of Hebrews concerns the High Priest and Jesus in that permanent role.

reply to post by guitarplayer


You are entirely correct in this. Sin is broken and faith bring justification. Salvation from the process comes at the end of the Day of the Lord, and lasts 1000 years. Sanctification for good works comes during the last 1000 years, when we receive the Holy Spirit. How can Satan tempt anyone if he is locked up? He can't. What happens at the end of the 1000 years? Satan is once again released to deceive the nations. This is because God follows His own laws. A jubilee releases the captives. When this happens, what is the result? The Saints have been given the truth by Christ. No deception is possible, but this final test needs to take place.

Revelation 20

20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit[a] and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

This is the sequence of events leading up to the 1000 years. Additionally, you can read more of this sequence here:

1 Corinthians 15

24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

In case you didn't catch this, authority is destroyed. Rule is taken away from authorities in power at present. Christ rules and not Satan. Today, we are ruled by sin and death.

Another thing. Don't miss the fact that God is excepted. This is an exclusion. God is not under subjection to Christ. Until this happens, we are under the guardianship of the law. Why? We still sin.

In Galatians 3, the Guardian word here is from Greek and represents the older servant who was in charge of a youth. In many families, the youth would be guided by a trusted servant. When the youth became of age, the bond servant was released and the young man or woman was free from the instruction and guidance of the guardian.

Are we children of God? YES!

1 Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Do you see dimly now? Then you and I are both under the guardian until sin has been removed and the authority of the deceiver is gone. Not one moment sooner. This is a process and we bear the cup with Christ until the transition comes. We partake of the bread, which makes us the body of Christ here on Earth. He is the head, with the Father. If we are here in a fallen place, then we have yet to rise to that Kingdom. Are you here now? They what I outlined in the OP is valid.

It is not false teaching. Anyone who tells you that you can be perfect while Satan is around is not being truthful. You cannot. When you read the sermon on the mount, simply try to follow it. Sell everything you own and take up your cross. Until you do, there is only one person who has lived that can achieve this work of faith according to what the Father demands. This is the point of there being a Christ. Only the Redeemer is worthy of the cup he bears.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Jesus being a high priest has nothing to do with how a loaf of bread can be moldy and un-moldy at the same time.

Though I do find it ironic that you believe Jesus eventually became something he despised. He called the Sudacees and Pharisees a brood of vipers, which are what high priests were.

Could you at least point to a specific verse or chapter that explains how and why two opposite things can both be true?

Usually you're very good at answering people's questions by citing verses and such, so you refusing to answer my question makes me think you do not have an answer for it.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Jesus being a high priest has nothing to do with how a loaf of bread can be moldy and un-moldy at the same time.

Though I do find it ironic that you believe Jesus eventually became something he despised. He called the Sudacees and Pharisees a brood of vipers, which are what high priests were.

Could you at least point to a specific verse or chapter that explains how and why two opposite things can both be true?

Usually you're very good at answering people's questions by citing verses and such, so you refusing to answer my question makes me think you do not have an answer for it.

edit on 28-10-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Again, moldy bread is your premise and not mine.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by Enochwasright
Now, let's answer your question: who is the scapegoat? When the crown of thorns is placed on the Christians' heads, who enters the fire? Who has enters the water? Who gets to keep the Son (Bet Nun / House of Seed)? Abraham kept his Son from faith. So will those who are crowned kings. Faith is the key.

But you haven’t answered my question, you’re instead speaking with a forked tongue, and firing back more questions, in my direction.

As a believer in Jesus, who doesn’t classify himself as a Christian, but who has received the Holy Spirit! and become Born Again!… I feel it is my duty to try, to help you out.

Firstly, our minds are very good and finding patterns and connecting word interplay together; but when you go with your spirit and quiet your mind, you will draw much closer to Gods truth. “Be still, and know that I AM God”

Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding are the real keys, faith is only meant to be starting point, to searching for the truth IMO.

Jesus states that one must seek the truth, and that the Holy Spirit will reveal all truth. Seeking is about asking oneself the right questions. For how can anyone expect to find the right answers, if they don’t first ask themselves, all the right questions?…Seek ye first, the right questions…

My advice to you would be to quiet your mind, and practice some form of meditation or, some deep level of prayer to God. Also, you should forget what you think you know, which in essence, means to come to God like a child. And first thing you should pray for, is for God to show the first most important piece of truth, that you need to come to know, today!!!

Selah…


- JC

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Okay then, I'll use your premise. How can a loaf of bread be full of leaven but free from leaven at the same time? If all the individual slices of the loaf are full of leaven, it goes to reason that so is the loaf itself. Leaven represents sin.

You, however, maintain that Jesus' loaf is sin free, even though every individual slice within his loaf is full of sin.

How does Hebrews explain this obvious contradiction? What chapter or verse explains it?

reply to post by Joecroft

My advice to you would be to quiet your mind, and practice some form of meditation or, some deep level of prayer to God. Also, you should forget what you think you know, which in essence, means to come to God like a child. And first thing you should pray for, is for God to show the first most important piece of truth, that you need to come to know, today!!!

Selah…

- JC

Do you sin? If the answer is a truthful yes, then you have a fallen spirit. Until God imparts a Holy Spirit within you, then you do not yet have the new robe (Body) or crown (Mind) mentioned in Revelation. That crown must be cast on the sea of glass. Do you have the influence of the Holy Spirit in the form of teaching today? Yes. As for being born again, you are resurrected from the dead. This is true. Christ was the firstfruits of those who were asleep in the grave. Living beyond the first century requires this. What did Paul say about it?

Acts 24

15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

Keep in mind what was happening here. Paul was a Pharisee. He believed in the resurrection. The Sadducees did not. Paul was on trial before Felix, as a Roman citizen, for this point of contention. He states something here that is telling concerning resurrection. He says that BOTH the righteous and wicked would be raised. BOTH! What does it mean to be born again?

Enoch One covers the same topic in his opening statement:

1 I The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be 2
living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed.

"...WHO WILL BE LIVING in the day of tribulation." Who will be living? Both the wicked and righteous.

I am glad you believe the words of Christ, but my point about the timeline of salvation, justification and the consummation of the Holy Spirit with man has been thoroughly studied. To be a part of the family of God, you MUST take on the name of Christ. The name is not Christian. The name is the character. To move toward that Holy Spirit you speak of, a person MUST be born again. 1000 years remain. The wicked must be consummated, but in a different way.

ENOCH

’Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who
have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves 12 with them in all their
uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of
their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of
their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is
consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: (and) 14 to the torment and
the prison in which they shall be confined for ever.

JUDE 1

6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Again, who must be present to see this judgment? BOTH the righteous and wicked. The text is clear if you take it again like a child. Theology is a box we put God in. God is trying to take us out of that box. I left that box long ago.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Okay then, I'll use your premise. How can a loaf of bread be full of leaven but free from leaven at the same time? If all the individual slices of the loaf are full of leaven, it goes to reason that so is the loaf itself. Leaven represents sin.

You, however, maintain that Jesus' loaf is sin free, even though every individual slice within his loaf is full of sin.

How does Hebrews explain this obvious contradiction? What chapter or verse explains it?

Now that you are thinking correctly, I will explain it. Go to Genesis 40. There is a story of the cup bearer and the baker. Where is bread baked? In the oven. Where is that aspect of creation? Deuteronomy 4:19 tells you. It is the refinery of Earth / Egypt. Egypt is a copy of Heaven. Where did Jesus come (Sinless) as King? Earth. What did he come to REMOVE? Sin / Leaven. Where does this take place?

Hebrews 11

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The copy was necessary. Below, we are full of sin because of the law, which is a guardian. Above, we are clean and healthy, with no sin.

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Above, you are an Angel. Below, you are a copy in an image. This is the place of refinement for the crown and robe you inherit in heaven.

Deuteronomy 4

19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

How can both be true? You tell me.

Joecroft

But you haven’t answered my question, you’re instead speaking with a forked tongue, and firing back more questions, in my direction.

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Firstly, our minds are very good and finding patterns and connecting word interplay together; but when you go with your spirit and quiet your mind, you will draw much closer to Gods truth. “Be still, and know that I AM God”

Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding are the real keys, faith is only meant to be starting point, to searching for the truth IMO.
....................

Jesus states that one must seek the truth, and that the Holy Spirit will reveal all truth.

Those are astute observations the 2nd being something only God could reveal.The religious carnal mind is at enmity to God.It makes and believes the doctrine of men.Faith is only the primer to knowing by it's nature faith cannot know, it can only believe what it doesn't know.You are correct we must seek the Truth ..however...there is only one way that happens ...when God draws us.Mans attempts to seek God are futile because they can only seek religion.That religion is the believers "My God"...a god made in their image.

When we seek God it is because God is drawing (in Greek the NT word is drags).
Yahoshua clearly stated that to be a disciple they would continue in his word [the living word...which is Gods salvation the meaning of Yahoshua...) and then they would KNOW the Truth and THEN the Truth would make them free.

Salvation is the deliverance from the valley of the shadow of death(the physical realm age of man).Yahoshua is the savior of ALL mankind .Man has zero part in their salvation except receiving.God is 100% in control of everything regardless of what the carnal religious mind of man believes.

Man is at the stage (in the age of man ....the physical realm ) of a embryo.God is forming mankind in the womb of the earth(Adam) to be birthed into the Kingdom of God age.The only seeking and finding that is going on is what God is doing.Everything else is the religion of man ..vanity of vanities.