When did Pope Francis negotiate indulgences and God’s bribe price?

When did Pope Francis negotiate indulgences and God’s bribe price?

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For Pope Francis to know that God would adjust our time in purgatory, --- a place that the last two Popes said was in our own heads and did not really exist, --- he would have had to get permission from God and get God to accept bribes for compromising his justice.

Yet this fantastic negotiation and conversation was never announced.

One must conclude that Pope Francis is either miss-leading Catholics or is an outright liar.

These indulgences are targeting our young gullible children and Catholics are not complaining at all. One wonders where their parents and their morals are. But this aside.

Have humans always been able to bribe our heavenly judge and God or is this just a Pope checking to see just how gullible his sheep are?

Would a God penalize humans who do not have computer access just as he would have penalised people of Martin Luther’s day who had no money to buy indulgences?

This is a question of fundamental justice and the Pope shows that Catholicism is an unjust and immoral religion with an ultimate God/Judge who will accept bribes and thus shows that he has no morals at all.

If on earth, God would be jailed for accepting bribes and would definitely lose his right to judge.

Thank God Catholicism and it’s God are immoral. We sinners can get a break with a simple bribe.

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Regards
DL

Perhaps he's working for the Devil, or is the Devil.

I mean, the last Pope left without a good reason, to me, anyway.

Maybe Satan threatened him, so he left.

Unrealised
Perhaps he's working for the Devil, or is the Devil.

I mean, the last Pope left without a good reason, to me, anyway.

Maybe Satan threatened him, so he left.

Pope Bentdick did have a reason to leave. He did not want to be questioned on his pedophile protecting efforts.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
For Pope Francis to know that God would adjust our time in purgatory, --- a place that the last two Popes said was in our own heads and did not really exist, --- he would have had to get permission from God and get God to accept bribes for compromising his justice.

I suspect that you're confusing Limbo for Purgatory, as regards the last two Popes -- Limbo has never been an official church teaching, and they recently (last ten years?) said that it doesn't exist. The Catechism says this about Purgatory:

Purgatory is the state of those who die in God’s friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness of heaven. (Catechism 210)

So, it's a "state", not a "place", per that.

As for your gripes about indulgences, the church believes that it has the authority to grant them, because they were charged by Christ to do so:

An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity. (Catechism 1478)

Indulgences are granted (by God, there's no scorecard in your local parish,) for acts of piety, like praying the Liturgy of the Hours, attending Stations of the Cross, helping the homeless, etc. And, apparently, for following the Pope on Twitter. The financial abuses associated with indulgences in the 1500s have long been curtailed.

Whether they really have anything to do with God or not, if they encourage people to do good, then what's the harm?

God can not be bribed nor can He lie. His laws are absolute and Pope Francis thinking that someone could pay money to lessen their punishment is a blatant lie. The only god here that accepts bribes is Satan but then again he is the father of lies so don't expect him to hold to the bribe either.

It sound like they need more money so it's time for the indulgence scam which is down right fraud but of course who's going to call the Pope out on it? They believe he is infallible! What a load of mammoth poo.

reply to post by pstrron

Pope Francis thinking that someone could pay money to lessen their punishment is a blatant lie.

Kindly point out any direct quote of Pope Francis saying that "someone could pay money to lessen their punishment".

pstrron
The only god here that accepts bribes is Satan

Don't call him a God, he's less than human.

adjensen

Greatest I am
For Pope Francis to know that God would adjust our time in purgatory, --- a place that the last two Popes said was in our own heads and did not really exist, --- he would have had to get permission from God and get God to accept bribes for compromising his justice.

I suspect that you're confusing Limbo for Purgatory, as regards the last two Popes -- Limbo has never been an official church teaching, and they recently (last ten years?) said that it doesn't exist. The Catechism says this about Purgatory:

Purgatory is the state of those who die in God’s friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness of heaven. (Catechism 210)

So, it's a "state", not a "place", per that.

As for your gripes about indulgences, the church believes that it has the authority to grant them, because they were charged by Christ to do so:

An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity. (Catechism 1478)

Indulgences are granted (by God, there's no scorecard in your local parish,) for acts of piety, like praying the Liturgy of the Hours, attending Stations of the Cross, helping the homeless, etc. And, apparently, for following the Pope on Twitter. The financial abuses associated with indulgences in the 1500s have long been curtailed.

Whether they really have anything to do with God or not, if they encourage people to do good, then what's the harm?

Give your head a shake as I confuse nothing.

www.ewtn.com...

Regards
DL

pstrron
God can not be bribed nor can He lie. His laws are absolute and Pope Francis thinking that someone could pay money to lessen their punishment is a blatant lie. The only god here that accepts bribes is Satan but then again he is the father of lies so don't expect him to hold to the bribe either.

It sound like they need more money so it's time for the indulgence scam which is down right fraud but of course who's going to call the Pope out on it? They believe he is infallible! What a load of mammoth poo.

No arguing against you on this my friend.

All religions are built on lies and believers just enjoy paying to be lied to. And just think, you and I have to pay more tax to pay for the subsidies, tax exemptions and breaks they get.

Religions are an insult to any thinking person.

Regards
DL

ScottProphhit

pstrron
The only god here that accepts bribes is Satan

Don't call him a God, he's less than human.

Yes and it is an insult to Satan to compare him to a God whose morals are so far below his own.

Count the bodies and see who has killed and tortured the most people.

Satan is a saint compared to the genocidal son murdering God of scriptures.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
Give your head a shake as I confuse nothing.

www.ewtn.com...

Um, that says exactly what I cited from the Catechism, so what's your point?

Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. (From your link)

adjensen

Greatest I am
Give your head a shake as I confuse nothing.

www.ewtn.com...

Um, that says exactly what I cited from the Catechism, so what's your point?

Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. (From your link)

The point is that the Pope would have to negotiate with every mind as God is within us all.

That means that he lied unless he can telepathically negotiate with all of us Gods and Jesus'.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Lies are not a good way to begin a papacy.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
The point is that the Pope would have to negotiate with every mind as God is within us all.

God is within us. We are not all God. Those are two different things.

Greatest I am
When did Pope Francis negotiate indulgences and God’s bribe price?

Making restitution to God for sins isn't 'bribing God'. It's showing God that you are sincerely sorry and willing to make sacrifices in order to make things right with him. Humans can only do so much to pay for their own sins (or bad karmic debt, whatever you want to call it). Making sacrifices to God to pay for sins has been the practice for a LONG TIME among humans .... it's not something newly invented by Pope Francis.

Zoroastrians and Hebrews and ancient Hindus did it for thousands of years before Christianity.

Indulgence is the same thing ... a little more modernized ... but the same thing.

Instead of sacrificing a goat to God, a person can pray and volunteer at a homeless shelter
to try to make up for the bad they have done.

To quote Raj from Big Bang Theory .. it makes sense and is practically Newtonian physics.
www.youtube.com...

FlyersFan

Greatest I am
The point is that the Pope would have to negotiate with every mind as God is within us all.

God is within us. We are not all God. Those are two different things.

Who but you can make you voluntarily do anything?

Have yee forgotten that yee are Gods?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

FlyersFan

Greatest I am
When did Pope Francis negotiate indulgences and God’s bribe price?

Making restitution to God for sins isn't 'bribing God'. It's showing God that you are sincerely sorry and willing to make sacrifices in order to make things right with him. Humans can only do so much to pay for their own sins (or bad karmic debt, whatever you want to call it). Making sacrifices to God to pay for sins has been the practice for a LONG TIME among humans .... it's not something newly invented by Pope Francis.

Zoroastrians and Hebrews and ancient Hindus did it for thousands of years before Christianity.

Indulgence is the same thing ... a little more modernized ... but the same thing.

Instead of sacrificing a goat to God, a person can pray and volunteer at a homeless shelter
to try to make up for the bad they have done.

To quote Raj from Big Bang Theory .. it makes sense and is practically Newtonian physics.
www.youtube.com...

edit on 10/25/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

I have no problem with restitution. I do when someone speaks for God and tells us what God will do when they have not spoken with God. The Pope is a liar and cannot speak for God.

There are many quotes that say God does not want sacrifices. He wants obedience like all good tyrants.
Obey or burn. God has no need of sacrifices is his mind set according to scriptures.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Make Our abode with him. That's not 'change him into a God'.
The two are still separate entities.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Kingdom of God is within ... again, that's not 'you are God incarnate'.
That's keeping God in your heart. That's the Holy Spirit being with you to help you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I have no idea how you get that we are God by that. You'll have to explain.

BTW ... Greatest I am ... I enjoy your threads. Always provoking thoughtful dialog.
I don't always agree with your opinions .. but I enjoy discussions in the threads.

Greatest I am
I do when someone speaks for God and tells us what God will do when they have not spoken with God.

- According to his religion, yes he can speak for what God will do. Matthew 16:18 & 19 gives the pope that authority. Along with the Acts of the Apostles showing apostolic succession.

- You are free to believe or disbelieve that the pope has the authority given to him by Jesus Himself. If you don't believe it, then just ignore the indulgences that the pope has measured out for the Catholics.

- You don't know if the pope has 'spoken with God'. You aren't with him in his prayer life and I don't think you can point to anything really evil that this man has done in which to doubt him. (although you may have a different view on 'evil' than others) But if you chose to believe the pope hasn't spoken with God ... go ahead. Disregard what he says.

- The pope doesn't actually have to speak with God for every pronouncement he makes. The authority given to him with Matthew 16:18-19 says that Heaven will hold bound whatever the Pope decides for the Church. (that's the belief of the Catholic faith). Jesus put the pope in charge and gave him full authority ... and Heaven honors that authority. (again, according to the popes faith).

FlyersFan

Greatest I am
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Make Our abode with him. That's not 'change him into a God'.
The two are still separate entities.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Kingdom of God is within ... again, that's not 'you are God incarnate'.
That's keeping God in your heart. That's the Holy Spirit being with you to help you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I have no idea how you get that we are God by that. You'll have to explain.

BTW ... Greatest I am ... I enjoy your threads. Always provoking thoughtful dialog.
I don't always agree with your opinions .. but I enjoy discussions in the threads.

Is Jesus God?
Trinitarians say yes.
If he is not God and just a man then there was no sacrifice or resurrection and Christianity falls apart.

If Jesus is God and we are destined to be his brethren then we are destined to be Gods.
We are all thus God WIPs. Works in progress. We are all on Jacob's ladder, so to speak and on our climb to becoming Gods.

If God is our heavenly father, then consider what fathers want for their children and what God should want for us.

As a father myself, I want my children to meet and exceed whatever I am.

To think that God would want less for his children would put him morally below man.

Can't have that now can we?

Do you see the logic of God being called, I am.

Regards
DL

FlyersFan

Greatest I am
I do when someone speaks for God and tells us what God will do when they have not spoken with God.

- According to his religion, yes he can speak for what God will do. Matthew 16:18 & 19 gives the pope that authority. Along with the Acts of the Apostles showing apostolic succession.

- You are free to believe or disbelieve that the pope has the authority given to him by Jesus Himself. If you don't believe it, then just ignore the indulgences that the pope has measured out for the Catholics.

- You don't know if the pope has 'spoken with God'. You aren't with him in his prayer life and I don't think you can point to anything really evil that this man has done in which to doubt him. (although you may have a different view on 'evil' than others) But if you chose to believe the pope hasn't spoken with God ... go ahead. Disregard what he says.

- The pope doesn't actually have to speak with God for every pronouncement he makes. The authority given to him with Matthew 16:18-19 says that Heaven will hold bound whatever the Pope decides for the Church. (that's the belief of the Catholic faith). Jesus put the pope in charge and gave him full authority ... and Heaven honors that authority. (again, according to the popes faith).

If infallible, remember that slavery is still a part of church doctrine.

Even if I were to believe that the Pope is infallible on church doctrine, I recognize this issue not as a church doctrine or policy but as something of God's policies. The Pope is not talking about the church reducing the penalty for sin but they are putting that policy into God's modus operandi and they do not have the authority to do so. The Pope speaks for the church on earth. Not for God.

What do you think of Alan Watts?

Regards
DL