What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

I've been thinking about this for some several days now, after inquiring to members of what it is that frightens them about the "conspiracy theories" around Religion.

In every other forum, there are skeptics and believers; fanatics and naysayers; pooh-poohers and adamant champions. People don't generally come to "conclusions" on these forums (collectively, we mainly just discuss - although there is, naturally, lots of insulting, condescension, eye-rolling, indignant huffing and puffing - behaviors which I freely admit I have engaged in when I get frustrated and bewildered by the thought processes of others).

The Religion Forums (this one, the Conspiracies in Religion forum, and the Creationism v Evolution forum) have a peculiar flavor all their own, however. This, I attribute to the "unknowability" of the REALITY that we all seek to know.

We CAN know if Republicans will turn out to do such and such, or Democrats this and that, because we see the results as things unfold. But with Religion, there is SIMPLY NO REAL EVIDENCE to go on.

Some believe in modern-day miracles, some in modern-day seers and prophets and channelers, some in ancient, mistranslated collections of texts, some in none of the above. Many of us have pretty well-developed ideas; there are very few who are completely UNAWARE of ANY religion - in fact, I'd venture to say it's impossible to be alive and over the age of 12 without SOME knowledge of Religious tension and actions in the world.

That given, it brings up a couple of questions that so far, barely anyone has answered when I've asked them.

1) TO THOSE UNWILLING TO READ OR LISTEN TO ANYONE WHO DISPUTES YOUR BELIEFS.....to read (or listen to or watch) material that disputes your beliefs, challenges your religion, might shake your faith, and suggest that those you 'follow' are "wrong", or worse - are LYING - I ask you "WHY?"

Have you thought about your reason(s) for refusing to entertain gainsayers or oppositional material?

God knows there is EVERY degree along the continuum readily available to those of us on the internet (at least in free countries) to explore "religiosity/spirituality"...from the most extreme atheist nihilist to the most pious, devout zealot, and everything in between. So, it can't be due to lack of exposure or access to information.

Are you AFRAID of something?

Or do you just not care to spend your time and attention exploring further than your current comfort zone?


I don't mean to put anyone on the defensive. I'm simply wondering if any of you who haunt these forums have thought about your motives and your choices. I know I have. It's been challenging for me to dig into faiths that in my gut make me uncomfortable, but I've done it anyway.

Have you done so, with as open a mind as you can muster? How was the experience for you? If you have NOT done so, but yet you come to these forums, what is your purpose here? To learn, to evangelize, to condemn, to judge, to convince?


2) TO THOSE WHO ARE WILLING: WHAT IF YOU FOUND OUT, ABSOLUTELY, THAT YOUR 'FAITH' is UNFOUNDED?

What would that "mean" to you?

What would it "do" to you?
Emotionally, physically, logistically, practically, socially - in your sense of self and your life. Would it "change" you?

Would it be an upheaval? A loss? A release from bondage?

I suppose you all get the idea.

I'm hoping to hear some honest, soul-searching answers from you all. Asking you to stretch your minds enough to consider the questions, at least. And explain to me, as best you can, your thoughts about it.

Thanks!
~wild

reply to post by wildtimes

I think the ideal disposition of the mythical objective commentator would be to never start with a position and never arrive at a conclusion. Not only is that impossible, it isn't natural and doesn't represent any advancement in understanding.

reply to post by greencmp


Why do you think it's impossible?

So, it can't be due to lack of exposure or access to information.

It is precisely that that has led to my thinking--the exposure and access to information that is. Not the lack of it.

Thankfully I am agnostic, so such quandaries don't bother in the least. Eliminates a lot of "drama" for lack of a better word.

reply to post by Chamberf=6

Thankfully I am agnostic, so such quandaries don't bother in the least. Eliminates a lot of "drama" for lack of a better word.

As am I. And yes, it makes it easier to navigate. Nevertheless, I feel empathy and real concern for those who have attached to a specific set of beliefs. It bothers me in terms of what it means for society, so I can't say that I'm indifferent.

wildtimes
reply to post by greencmp

 

Why do you think it's impossible?

I was just noting that we all have preconceptions, to expect complete objectivity isn't realistic.

People do change their mind but, it usually is a process that takes some time. Indeed, I would have it no other way since rejecting a position you currently have confidence in ought to require substantial evidence and careful reflection.

reply to post by wildtimes


I see fear in religion. Fear of not meaning anything, fear of an unfulfilling death, and fear of being lost.

reply to post by greencmp

People do change their mind but, it usually is a process that takes some time. Indeed, I would have it no other way since rejecting a position you currently have confidence in ought to require substantial evidence and careful reflection.

I agree with you there.

I'm wondering how much "careful reflection" and open inquiry people have allowed (or indulged in) for themselves, and whether they've considered the question of 'why' it makes them feel uncomfortable, or more comfortable, to do so.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Me, too, for the most part. That's the part of it that bothers me.

I'm not bothered by people who find ONLY strength and courage and hope and peace in their faith; but those who also believe in eternal hellfire and pain, and teach their loved ones to do the same, instilling a sense of shame and fear are of concern to me. It seems counterproductive.

reply to post by wildtimes


first of all this is an excellent topic i think everyone at some point must have thought this. I myself came to this conclusion a few years back stories that we are told as kids of Jesus and growing up in a catholic setting i firstly realized that religion is man made and none of us will ever know the true religion or meaning of life until we die i think its our true selves we need to find. But when i first realized this i was deeply saddened at the thought everything i thought was real was possibly a lie i can understand how devastating it would be for some who are more set in there religion than i was

reply to post by wildtimes

Fear of not meaning anything, fear of an unfulfilling death, and fear of being lost.

Invent your own meaning. Just because it wasn't handed to you on a silver platter doesn't make it any less worthwhile.

Live life to the fullest. When you are done living, you will welcome death regardless of what it brings.

Explore. Even if you can't find your way back to where you started from, you can still find a new home.

There ya go. No religion necessary.

wildtimes
reply to post by greencmp

 

People do change their mind but, it usually is a process that takes some time. Indeed, I would have it no other way since rejecting a position you currently have confidence in ought to require substantial evidence and careful reflection.

I agree with you there.

I'm wondering how much "careful reflection" and open inquiry people have allowed (or indulged in) for themselves, and whether they've considered the question of 'why' it makes them feel uncomfortable, or more comfortable, to do so.

That is a good question, I think there must be some sort of moment of doubt or epiphany that triggers or inspires an introspective reanalysis of existing venerated ideas.

reply to post by wildtimes


Of course 'why' is an uncomfortable question to ask. It requires you to be honest with yourself. And when people realize they are employing philosophies which run on the exact same qualities they are attempting to avoid, they discover how small a circle they've been running in.

reply to post by zedy63

But when i first realized this i was deeply saddened at the thought everything i thought was real was possibly a lie i can understand how devastating it would be for some who are more set in there religion than i was

Yes, this is one of the responses that are possible.
It makes them sad, leaves them feeling "lost" without an anchor, sort of adrift...

but for others, it can be quite liberating. It can be a relief to finally understand that they WERE lies, or that they ARE man-made...for me it gives an element of surprise to life as it unfolds. I'm interested in finally knowing the truth.

But, not in any rush. Just in case those answers are actually not forthcoming, and after I die it's the same as before I was born - no 'awareness' of it. (That doesn't mean our souls don't have 'forgetfulness' while we are here - but I have to admit it's possible that we just, well, end).

I understand where you are coming from. I find myself sometimes frustrated with others when they do not want to come outside of their comfort zone while remaining stuck in the idea that there is only one philosophy of life (or religion) and there's is the ONE.

Maybe there is a fear of being wrong?

Maybe there is a fear and they are scared of damnation/Hell.

I like to think I am open and have been open to other possibilities.

My current belief may change, and that is ok with me. I actually expect it to change as I get older and become wiser, if I actually do become wiser. lol

Good thread Wildtimes... always have valued your ideas.

I don't really know if I'm agnostic or atheistic at this point in my life. I was raised Pentecostal, Assembly of God to be specific, and I just grew tired of the fakery that I was observing more and more as I grew older and was able to understand what was going on.

One thing that I believe would bother a lot of the people would be the realization that their belief of eternal life is based on a lie and everything that they had done to achieve that eternal salvation was for nothing.

A lot of people fear death because they have been "educated" to believe that death is a bad thing and in order for good to come from death they must follow certain steps in order to bypass death and step into eternal life.

Death is just the continuation of life. As one dies, from his rotting corpse, new life is born.

If one has children then that person has not died as they live on in their children and in their children's children.

wildtimes
Are you AFRAID of something?

EXCELLENT QUESTION.

I see a lot of fear of truth amongst the hard core indoctrinated. If someone dares to bring FACTS into a conversation ... facts that run counter to their debunked beliefs ... they start spewing with the name calling and insults. Rather than take a cold hard look at their belief system, they just get nasty like a wild unthinking animal.

Bottom line -
If a religious belief can't hold up under the light of truth ... then it is unworthy of belief.

It is better to know the truth even if it runs counter to your current belief system.
The truth will set you free ...


(Excellent thread again, wildtimes)

reply to post by wildtimes

1) TO THOSE UNWILLING TO READ OR LISTEN TO ANYONE WHO DISPUTES YOUR BELIEFS.....to read (or listen to or watch) material that disputes your beliefs, challenges your religion, might shake your faith, and suggest that those you 'follow' are "wrong", or worse - are LYING - I ask you "WHY?"

If you would allow me Wildtimes, I would like to answer this from a Christian fundamentalist perspective...

ANYTHING that is in opposition to the bible, and/or accepted Christian doctrine, is lies. Worse than that, they are lies spawned by the Christian adversary, known as Satan. Satan is the god of this world, and the father of lies. All "proof", from anywhere on the planet, that is contradictory to Christianity is a deception of the Devil himself. Remember too, that Satan has been here since the beginning. He has had ample time to falsify evidence supporting his version of the "truth", and making God, and his word out to be a liar. To listen to anything the secular world has to say, alternatively, in the way of explanation as to our origins, our history, or God himself is blasphemy, and let it be anathema.

2) TO THOSE WHO ARE WILLING: WHAT IF YOU FOUND OUT, ABSOLUTELY, THAT YOUR 'FAITH' is UNFOUNDED?

This will never be the case. Period. To entertain such an idea weakens ones resolve and faith. The truth is known. The truth has been revealed to all humans. Accept it, or reject it. It's up to you.

I think you get the idea.

reply to post by wildtimes


Also the majority of people in the world are trapped in there religious fear and untill they can come to terms with just being themselves they will never be free. Its sad...

It wouldn't grate on me nearly so much if all the conversations weren't either a) sycophantic, b) argument out of ignorance, or c) just plain irrational.

If an intelligent statement could be made that aligned with the philosophies and doctrine of Christianity, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But do you know how rare those kinds of statements are? It's either Christian or it's intelligent. Almost never both.

I'm not talking about the philosophies that Christianity stole from Toaism and Buddhism and whatnot. I'm talking pure Christian doctrine.