What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

I was thinking about the circumstances that a group of people with no stake in a subject might endeavor to 'hammer it out'. It is by definition academic and, while I do it all the time, I am at my most objective when doing so. However, these are also the subjects that I am least familiar with. The more expertise I have in a subject, the less likely I will be to reconsider already treaded terrain.

reply to post by wildtimes

So, yes, I get your drift. But obviously - there is SOME WAY that staunch Satan-minded folks let go of their preciously held beliefs, or there wouldn't be so many "former Evangelicals"...
what did it take for them?

Disillusionment is not a fun thing. Being disabused of prior misconceptions makes some folks VERY nervous.

Mostly I'm seeing "fear" as the motive. Am I mistaken?

Yes. Fear, and the infamous...

Double Bind, which is not an easy concept to grasp. At least it wasn't, and still isn't always for me.

Some of us come to a moment in our lives, when we realize, deep within, something isn't right. Those who follow that intuitive nag, come out the other end a changed person.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Yes, I remember exactly what it took.

reply to post by Klassified

Double Bind, which is not an easy concept to grasp. At least it wasn't, and still isn't always for me.

Some of us come to a moment in our lives, when we realize, deep within, something isn't right. Those who follow that intuitive nag, come out the other end a changed person.

I must fear those whom I love. I am only safe when I am in chains. The less I know, the more I can trust. Is that the kind of stuff you mean?

reply to post by DISRAELI

and the fact that I wanted people to like me.

We are social creatures. We NEED to be able to live among others (excepting, of course, hermits and their ilk)...

How does "faith" in whatever religiosity you now embrace change the fact that you wanted people to like you?

We all behave in socially acceptable (or unacceptable) ways out of our own 'neediness.'

Did you not care about whether people liked you 'after' you became an ex-atheist? Did it make you feel better toward others? Or just better about yourself? Or just 'safe' from the threat of damnation?

MamaJ
For the die hard Christian or any faith for that matter I wonder... HOW MANY of them have actually traced their religion back to the beginning and understand from where it came?

I was a very conservative Roman Catholic. Then I decided to do just what you said ... go back and back and see where everything came from. It's amazing how much that is 'Jewish' or 'Muslim' or 'Christian' is actually Summerian and Egyptian and even ancient Hindu.

And once you start looking at the hard core facts ... layers and layers of built up folklore and lies peel away.

For instance, the FACT that Exodus never happened .... the Jews were never slaves in Egypt and they didn't escape and live in the desert for 40 years ... that puts a knife right into the heart of Judaism and Islam. It gives Christianity a serious black eye (and maybe even a broken nose).

Another, the FACT that the folklore surrounding Abraham is totally unreliable. He lived (if he lived at all) 2000 AD and the folklore surrounding him wasn't written down until 500AD. Thats 1500 years of the story being changed and embellished and whitewashed and messed with. This chops off the head of Judaism and Islam, and it gives Christianity a serious headache.

Christianity is able to stand on it's own, apart from Judaism and Islam, with the New Testament. If the body of Jesus is ever found and the DNA testing shows that he didn't rise from the dead and he had a human father instead of God as a father, then I'd have to admit the truth of it, and change and grow. I'd have to adopt Jesus as a 'master' like Buddha instead of Him being God Incarnate. I'd have to face it.

I'd rather know the truth then continue to be wrong.
I just don't understand the people who refuse to admit facts when presented to them.
They could GROW from learning the truth, but instead they chain themselves to the
ground and they just fester in their own decay. I really don't get their aversion to truth.
It's an opportunity for growth ... not an evil attack. It's really odd.

wildtimes
It seems to me, however, that 'committed unbelievers' would only be 'scared' if they have not lived a life of morals.

I think the pychological fear is about being "changed" against one's (current) will into something one doesn't (currently) want to be.
The kind of fear aroused by the Stepford Wives film, before it copped out by revealing that the "new" women were only robots.

Nothing, Paul said that if Christ were not true then believing in Christ is vain and there is no point, so Paul urged skepticism and challenging the miraculous claims, because he was sure it would only strengthen your belief.

wildtimes
Did you not care about whether people liked you 'after' you became an ex-atheist?

My point was that "wanting people to like me" was, according to the analysis i made at the time, one of the factors preventing me from doing unsociable things.

reply to post by wildtimes


Great thread. Great thinking. Great writing. Keep up the good work.

In my more religious times, it took many years to become comfortable in not knowing, almost slipping into states of nihilism and depression. It wasn't until I discovered a less absolute alternative, that of philosophy, that I found I was in the company of Plato, Bertrand Russell, Kant, Hume, Nietzsche, Locke, Chomsky, who all agreed there is little intelligibility and absolutes in the world.

But the fear for me was losing the chance to acquire the gifts we are promised by religion, that of immortality, and seats in the house of God, and so forth, to finally find myself standing face-to-face with the brute facts of the earth for the first-time. Of course, over time, the brute facts became the things I love; and not knowing, the soil from where my own creativity would arise.

DISRAELI
In my atheist days, I reached the conclusion that I could not see any rational reason for a person to motivate his behaviour on anything but self-interest.

That's actually basic psychology. (yes, my degree is psychology). It is thought that EVERYTHING people do is out of self interest, even the philanthropic and charitable activities. This subject came up in class ... like the question did Mother Teresa help others out of selfishness? And the answer given was that yes, ultimately, she helped people because she knew she'd be rewarded in the next life for doing so and because it made HER feel good to help.

The people running around trying to convert others to be of their same religion ... be it fundamentalist Christian or extremist Muslim or whatever ... they look like they are doing it for their god but they are in fact doing it for themselves ... for the satisfaction of making people think like them, and for the satisfaction of making people change by their power, and for the 'reward' they think they'll get from their god.

reply to post by FreeMason

Nothing, Paul said that if Christ were not true then believing in Christ is vain and there is no point, so Paul urged skepticism and challenging the miraculous claims, because he was sure it would only strengthen your belief.

Okay...
but, your answer is a bit nebulous. Could you please clarify what "Nothing" answers in terms of a response to the OP?

The "fear" thing? I'm still 'learning' you, FreeMason, although I have the distinct impression that you were here before and are back in a new incarnation....

reply to post by FlyersFan

The people running around trying to convert others to be of their same religion ... be it fundamentalist Christian or extremist Muslim or whatever ... they look like they are doing it for their god but they are in fact doing it for themselves ... for the satisfaction of making people think like them, and for the satisfaction of making people change by their power, and for the 'reward' they think they'll get from their god.

Yes. That. But some of them claim to be 'trying to save others from themselves'. Which I find to be quite...well....unbelievable. It always seems more like desperation to have confirmation of their own beliefs...

misery loves company.

reply to post by Aphorism


It sounds as though I've been following in somewhat the same footsteps as yourself, with much the same results and satisfaction. I've never wanted immortality, I'm not ashamed of being flawed and imperfect, and I certainly don't require a divine hand in my life. There's nothing religion can use to drag me in. I much prefer philosophy, which acts as an equation rather than a mandate.

reply to post by wildtimes

Oh please, what makes you think Christians are scared of anything? The underlying foundation of faith is in knowing your almighty science will eventually reach the same conclusion Christians have embraced for centuries. If anything, atheists have more to fear than anyone else.

reply to post by Aphorism

Of course, over time, the brute facts became the things I love; and not knowing, the soil from where my own creativity would arise.

Yeah!!! I know! RIGHT????

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, the 'uncertainty' leads to a release of creativity that is quite profound. Thanks for the encouragement.

wildtimes
reply to post by FreeMason

 

Nothing, Paul said that if Christ were not true then believing in Christ is vain and there is no point, so Paul urged skepticism and challenging the miraculous claims, because he was sure it would only strengthen your belief.

Okay...
but, your answer is a bit nebulous. Could you please clarify what "Nothing" answers in terms of a response to the OP?

The "fear" thing? I'm still 'learning' you, FreeMason, although I have the distinct impression that you were here before and are back in a new incarnation....

It means if Christianity is false so what? It's not the end of the world. What's worrisome to a Christian is that Christ is true, which means a lot of things good and bad. Like the destruction of this world, and everlasting life or the second death.

reply to post by Bone75

Oh please, what makes you think Christians are scared of anything? The underlying foundation of faith is in knowing your almighty science will eventually reach the same conclusion Christians have embraced for centuries. If anything, atheists have more to fear than anyone else.

Okay, cool! A believer to answer...or not...the questions.

Christians are as able as anyone else to look into other religions or beliefs (or lack thereof). Are you a person who DOES look at other faiths and ideas and philosophies with an open mind, and awareness that YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING?

Whose "almighty science" are you condemning here?

I'm not an atheist, but what have they to fear?

HELL??

reply to post by FreeMason


Okay, but now that's two of you who assumed I was talking ONLY to Christians. I am addressing ANYONE of ANY FAITH who happens to read these forums. It is NOT exclusively addressing Christians.