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Therein lies the variation of 'Enlightenment'. Nobody can experience the same as experience as another, they may share very mirrored experiences and witnesses may vary the account but the subjectivity lies within the one experiencing 'it' and the aftermath of the experience.
Did one seeker of enlightenment discover a new way of thinking VS did another gain or develop already awakened psychic prowess further along the path VS a being who is the embodiment of enlightenment and chooses to reincarnate and claim spiritual knowledge through living their prodigal life?
Then there are tribal civilizations that gained 'Enlightenment' by ingesting spiritual plants to commune with other dimensions.
Then there are the advanced otherworldly beings that gained enlightenment after finding out that they could dream consciously after giving up physical form and live as orbs of light in the cosmos called stars that we organisms on this planet revolve around. I'll stay with subjective.
All the people I knew, and it was many, who went down "plant" pants, most of them did not retain permanent state of realizations.
...regeneration is only possible in the present, not in the future, not tomorrow. A man who relies on time as a means through which he can gain happiness or realize truth or God is merely deceiving himself; he is living in ignorance and therefore in conflict. A man who sees that time is not the way out of our difficulty and who is therefore free from the false, such a man naturally has the intention to understand; therefore his mind is quiet spontaneously, without compulsion, without practice. When the mind is still, tranquil, not seeking any answer or any solution, neither resisting nor avoiding - it is only then that there can be a regeneration, because then the mind is capable of perceiving what is true; and it is truth that liberates, not your effort to be free.
reply to post by ChuckNasty
Still reading through the linked info - I've never felt the heat or discomfort like it mentioned. Always felt a cooling effect from my feet that flowed towards my head. Once the coolness reached my head, I felt contentment.
What about he people you didn't meet? The South Americans, Ecuador or Peruvians? What makes them unable to attain enlightenment? Plants? Intoxicants? Enlightenment is a transmutation of brain chemistry, and if plant chemistry and herb lore was implemented as a catalyst, then they may have well surpassed our perceived experience of the subject; beyond enlightenment & higher tiers of being.
But my question still remains; What, to you, is the goal towards, becoming and attaining 'enlightenment'?
J. Krishnamurti The First and Last Freedom Chapter 20 'TIME AND TRANSFORMATION' I would say that the mind is a time mechanism and so approaching the mind through the context of time is playing right into its hands whether 15-30 days or 15 to 20 years.
The argument they present for consideration is that because the non-dual condition is already the case, nothing needs to be done, or even could be done, to allow for its manifestation in the student’s life since no movement is possible towards that which you already are. This perfectly logical statement usually leaves the student in a very vulnerable position, because it is felt that although the truth of the non-dual vision makes perfect sense, nothing could be done to bring this truth down into the living reality of his/her actual experience. In other words, the truth of the non-dual is presented in such a way that it stands in opposition to the truth and living reality of the student's experience of themselves, which clearly tells them that despite their clear intellectual grasp of the argument for non-dual reality, this is not the truth of their present experience of themselves.
Here we notice how the presumed argument for non-duality serves to fragment, condition and limit the potential for the experience of the truth of non-duality. It disempowers the student to discover for themselves what it could be which gives them the very strong impression of their separate existence or dualistic vision. Rather than serving the natural process of self-observation, self-enquiry and self-transcendence, through which the false assumption of separation could be explored and transcended, it stunts any further enquiry and therefore the possibility of awakening to the non-dual. Briefly stated, this Neo-Advaitist advice could be seen as integrally part of the process by which non-duality gets obscured and duality perpetuated.
Link for more on this
I do not doubt his awakening/realization, but do doubt his style of teaching and level of realization
There are quite a few modern day Enlightened teachers who criticize Krishnamurti for several reasons. Mostly that his awakening/realization happened spontaneously, too quick for his own intellect to catch how it happened...
But it may be possible that the idea of progressive steps towards an arrival point is somehow still a kind of dreamwork, perhaps a more sophisticated path of dreaming which shouldn't be dismissed as delusion because it serves as a catalyst to a sudden leap of realization. In this respect 'time and transformation' is a subject of relevance in the understanding of reality.
You know, as much as I've enjoyed your posts (and you're on my friends list too), I'm still pretty skeptical about anybody who claims to be enlightened. I'm still thinking that it's a process, no final "enlightenment" can be achieved during this lifetime.. so there's certainly something about "become enlightened in 15 days" that ticks me off.
Some people spend a LIFETIME learning Yoga from the masters, and still don't claim to be enlightened. It's a highly subjective.
I have studied (and practiced) Kriya Yoga, meditation, Taoism, theosophy, christian mysticism, rosicrucianism, tantra, shamanism.. and I think that there's a golden path in all these traditions which leads to the same place, an experience that NO written teaching can explain. In that place, EVERYTHING you think you know about the mind & soul just goes flying out of the window.
Certain states and goals can be reached, yes, but I don't simply believe in "enlightenment" as some sort of achievable state. Not in this lifetime. We can gravitate towards it, but never achieve it. Zero point.