“You are not your body”—and other contradictions.

reply to post by Visitor2012

If you believe it was a hallucination or something you imagined, then you've most definitely NOT had an OBE.

And you have?

Since you seem quite sure that I haven't had an OBE, I'd like to hear how your experience was different than mine, and how you are more of an authority than I am.

Secondly, perhaps you can explain some difficulties I find regarding your conclusion.

- How could you remember your experience if you had nowhere to store those memories? Are memories stored somewhere other than the body?

- Being that the senses are of the body, how were you able to sense that you had left the body?

- If you were able to see your body from above, how did you see without the eyes?

- How did you experience anything without the instrument through which we experience life?

- And lastly, how is your experience different than a dream or hallucination?

Thank you. I hope you find time to help me with these problems.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


Personal Identity

- Being that the senses are of the body, how were you able to sense that you had left the body?
- If you were able to see your body from above, how did you see without the eyes?
- How did you experience anything without the instrument through which we experience life?

People Born Blind Can See During a Near-Death Experience

The way I interpreted that is if it were computers, it would be like an application which would be a personality with sentience. The application may reside on the physical harddrive, but otherwise it isn't there on the harddrive which are just zeroes and ones, off or on. Just before the computer shuts down, the application may or may not have created an application which alters space and time through which it will exit when the computer is no more.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


That is interesting, because they can also see when they hallucinate. There must be some comparison between the two.

www.lycaeum.org...

In this paper, blind research patients take certain hallucinogens.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


Google: Depersonalization/Disorder or Derealization.

10% of sufferers exeperience full recovery.
The phenomena is very real. No cure, barely any treatment.

reply to post by NightTImeLord


That is a strange set of symptoms.

Of course, if the outside world wasn't real, then everything inside it wouldn't be real either, including their inner world.

I guess associating with the body brings comfort to some. It would be mind boggling for them to realize that there is no time. Its a program in the brain, ie compared to a computer program in wordpad, that makes the program operate the way it does and helps define the realm its in in an ocean of channels, that are all at once. And all the timelines are more like snapshots laid out in the Now. so all the lifetimes you've ever lived, and will ever live all exist around you in the Now. Past/Present/Future, all at once. You are in many diverse bodies, all of which are not you. you are the driver of the car.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


I agree.

People who suffer from this have my sympathy.Although reality testing is often still present.
This creates a feeling of intense powerlessness for the sufferer.
As well as causing other feelings of depression, anxiety and even panic disorder.

www.webmd.com...

Yeah, yeah. I know.

reply to post by Unity_99


Time exists for me because change exists for me. Without time, there would be no change. Time is a means of expressing and measuring that process, just like space is a means of expressing and measuring the first three dimensions. There is no denying the dimension of time, because we see its effects everywhere. Why deny time? Why degrade it, devalue it, by calling it a construct? Of course it's a construct, in the same manner that love and beauty and faith are constructs. They are romanticisms of fundamental aspects that we have recognized as being pertinent to our understanding of the universe and how we react with it. Just because it's a construct doesn't mean it's not practical.

And acknowledging the process of change is very practical indeed.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Change always exists, but it exists all at once. Time is a very useful program here and I imagine is used in many places, but past/present/future is a perception to make order out of infinity.

The point I'm making is we're not our bodies and really we're in many at the same time. I have a past life memory, and keep reminding myself its concurrent. Would like to explore what that means more in meditation, but have fallen asleep during meditation for the last while.

reply to post by Unity_99


Hi mate.

Not much for this but ive been a long time lurker, I very much enjoy your contributions.
In fact youre one of the reasons i finally got around to joining.

Honestly, it does not come down to associated comfort, but a feeling of entrapment in the disembodiment.
To be chained yet cut loose from bodily experience. To be neither here nor there and always struggling with silence, how can somebody be expected to function normally like that.

Much like cancer or baldness, some things can effect ALL of us, even this. For the spiritual it can be downright devestating, i know of somebody who cannot meditate due to the degree his depersonalization intensifies.

Imagine being stuck in the EverNow.

reply to post by Unity_99

The point I'm making is we're not our bodies and really we're in many at the same time.

Imagine picking up a book and reading it. Now imagine someone else picking up that book and reading it aloud to you. ow imagine that book written into a play. Now imagine that book being adapted into a cartoon. Now imagine a live action movie based on that cartoon. During all of those different scenarios, did the story in the book change at all? Did the characters change? Did the places change? Did the narrative change? Would you say most of those scenarios would present the same story? Would you say the story would be altered significantly across the board?

Our bodies are a physical manifestation of who we are in our heads. If you are good at reading people, you'll be able to figure them out to a T just by looking at them. The way we fix our hair, the way we dress, the way we walk and talk, the way our body reacts in subtle ways we're not even aware of...our body knows things about us that we don't even know. Like that book, going from a play to a cartoon to a movie, our bodies project the story in our heads all over our bodies. Little twitches reveal thoughts, carefully arranged hair reveals the personality, shoes reveal hobbies, pants reveal emotional states. Tattoos reveal passions, designer tees reveal hatreds or phobias, jewelry reflects our societal standing and self-regard. Yes, Unity, we are our bodies. The moment our body strays from who we are, we notice it and fix it. We don't like our hair, our clothes, our skin color, our freckles or acne or any kind of blemish...our body is a canvas upon which we paint ourselves. If our body doesn't match us, we change that. There is nothing in this world that is more us than our bodies.

reply to post by NightTImeLord


Well I feel particularly trapped in this body. Its akin to walking around in lead boots, in quicksand, when I'm not used to that feeling, behind a veil, though it lifts at times, disconnected from everyone. Not a nice feeling here.

One thing I noticed in my past life memory, was I was similar looking as a child then to what I looked like in this life as a child. There was a strong resemblance, so our bodies may have upgrades or downgrades in abilities, tests may be fine tuned that way, or circumstances even, but they still seem to be a reflection of our individual spirits somewhat.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


www.abovetopsecret.com...

From ET_MAN's post, one of his good posts, loaded with out of the box answers that not only resonated with my Soul, but his questions brought me in direct contact within to my Higher Self, and then over a month of downloads and experiences with HS.

Now, this post gets really interesting about 1/2 way through. I've got a few links linked under my profile for fast reference of his.

For some reason I can't seem to upload the 2 pictures on that post, but there is one with "your life as a movie that they can watch" and "greys watching you on tv". LOL.

its because of the time, how the program for everyone in a different timeframe. And infinity each change is like a new snapshot, but each photo hangs forever in space.

we're in the movie of our lives so to speak, meant to be hero's in it.

For some inexplicable reason the OP has truncated the phrase. "You are not your body, you have body, but your body is not the entirety of you," is more the point. Or CS Lewis' "you do not have a soul, you are a soul, you have a body." The "you are not your body" is a straw man argument, as this really is nothing more then an incomplete thought.

The idea here is the body is used as an expression for you, an Avatar in a video game, which gives you a temporary experience. In case some folks are confused, the only way into Earth is to get a body, and the only way off Earth is to DIE. So, the body is temporary by any definition.

The next level of discussion is what animates that vehicle? The OP wants to believe it is them that animates - the OP is right. There is no conflict there, what the OP seems to be expressing in a fearful manner is the idea that once without a body, there is no more OP, but a blob. This is incorrect, once out of the body you will still be you, just without the body.

reply to post by NightTImeLord


Welcome aboard. But I'm just shining out all I can because consciousness is shackled here. Many say, well you're wasting time online. Well to me that is coming straight from TPTWB (insering wanna), because they don't like online and awareness. But its like a mirror and unless people have more questions, more options, more choices than the limited ideas they're spoon fed, they can't change the outer. Also due to experiences, found I had monitoring and even adopted online friends who had military backgrounds, so in the end my philosophy was, just be love, wish well for everyone, try to rescue who I could, and if there is surveillance going on, then my posts are getting through to the mismanagers and they need to start making some drastic U-Turns really fast. But there is nothing special about me, am always motivated and inspired by the posts of others all around me. Think highly everyone else!

reply to post by Rapha


Steve jobs was a Buddhist, practicing Zen, I think.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


I find your post amusing. Those of us that have the certainty that we are not our bodies, or most anyways, don't have a need to proclaim it, any doubt, any need for re-enforcement.

Yet you seem to have that need.

You answer your own question, your beliefs have been a lie. A fearful thing to have to even consider, without epiphany.

It's either a sublime desire on your part for help reaching that epiphany or a demand for validation/re-enforcement in your uncertain beliefs.

Look inward, not on these boards. That''s about the best I can do to assist you in your self-made adventure.

Here's one more...try forgiving yourself. Your self imposed "incarceration" holds you back.....

reply to post by crankyoldman

"You are not your body, you have body, but your body is not the entirety of you,"

You say that as though it makes any difference. Does your body become less important in believing that it is only a fraction of who you are? It is the only fraction standing between you and other realms which may or may not exist. In short, that fraction is the only fraction by which you actually exist. Respect that.

I guess it depends upon perspective. One could argue the body is just a bunch of atoms vibrating at a certain rate to give the image of form. If you magnified your had to such a degree that you could only see the atoms in your hand, you wouldn't see them as being all connected, the closer you looked, you would see huge casts of space between each atom, magnify further and you would see the bits that make up the individual atoms in your hand. There would be a lot of empty space inbetween. A whole lot of nothingness.