Climate Change Deniers: step forward and be counted.

I can't believe I'm still finding threads on ATS (particularly), like this one (posted just last week), where people claim...

1) there is no problem, or simply that it is overblown, OR
2) there (still) is no evidence to support such claims, OR
3) that it's a complete 'scam'... (or, means to control folks and impose carbon taxes, etc)

While I certainly agree that #3 is legit, in that people will always find opportunities to scam people, that doesn't mean the 'problem' was invented simply as a means to DO so!

Let's take a look at just FACTS:

1) The UN just released their report, yesterday, that beyond a reasonable doubt, it IS happening, and CAN mostly be attributed to human activity:

Human activity has caused at least half of climate change in the last half-century, hundreds of scientists say. They are 95% certain of this, the surest they've ever been, says a United Nations report published Friday.

That activity? Driving cars, running power plants on coal and oil, torching swathes of forestland and debris; anything involving burning carbon-based fuels and emitting greenhouse gases.

We are seeing the consequences already in extreme weather patterns, particularly drought and flood, and they will probably get worse this century, the report said.

"It should serve as yet another wake-up call our activities today have a profound impact on society, not only for us, but for many generations to come," Michel Jarraud, head of the World Meteorological Organization, said at a news conference in Stockholm, Sweden

2) Assuming most folks have seen these charts, before:







3) The evidence is right in front of Americans:

- Miami's rising water problem
- Alaskan village set to disappear under water within a decade


4) Why do Americans - and, almost exclusively Americans - continue to deny climate change?

I can think of the two most obvious reasons:

a) We are not smart! We've all seen the stats - of the industrialized world, we rank in the bottom half in math and science. [-Source ]

b) We [*ahem*, our Oil Companies, etc] stand the most to LOSE by this being true!


This gentleman, elaborates, further...

Journalist Mark Hertsgaard argues the United States is the only advanced industrial nation that continues to debate the existence of climate change. Though climate change skeptics only represent a minority of the country, Hertsgaard says their megaphone is large. He compares them to tobacco industry lobbyists who once rejected evidence that smoking causes cancer.

- Source

5) CHASING ICE - the most elaborate, comprehensive, expensive, time-consuming, and damning experiment / documentary ever completed on the subject (by acclaimed environmental photographer James Balog)

Here is his TED Talks summation of his examination.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


Sign me up!

I am sure I am already on the terrorist watch list.

After all,

I am a veteran.
I speak out against my government.
I believe in the Constitution.
I am aware of the collusion between the so called Democratic party and Republican Party to take away the sovereignty of the United States in order to create a New World Order.
I want to end the Federal Reserve Bank.....................

Drum Roll please...........................

And now because I don't believe in the Climate Change Scam????

Bash away! I really don't care anymore what you folks that want to willingly become slaves care.......sigh

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

There is simply not enough data to support claims on either side.

The earth is estimated to be over 4.5 billion years old. We have *accurate* climate data for perhaps a few hundred years, probably less. In fact, the data gets far too vague the further back you go.

This means that "scientists" are drawing a conclusion based on having less than 0.000006 percent of the data set. They have absolutely no idea about the natural cycles of climate over the course of millions and millions of years.

This is the scientific equivalent of saying "It rained today, therefore every day is rainy". It is scientifically ridiculous, which helps clue us in that there is clearly another agenda.

It's just my two cents...but perhaps I can offer an answer on the American part. Keep in mind, I do think the climate is changing, but at best, man is a contributory factor to something else entirely.

Americans though, may be more skeptical because quite frankly, we are very very good at something. It's not bragging...because I'd give anything NOT to be good at it. We're outstanding in developing really powerful technology ...then misusing it to disastrous results. It's become a repeating pattern.

Is climate change happening? Yup.... Is it cooling OR warming? Well, now there are people with letters after their names on both sides of that one at this stage. If technology is applied to attempt artificial control of the climate to "correct" something and we get it wrong? Well, we'll have killed ourselves. The whole planet, perhaps, by making a natural cycle enhanced through ignorant misdirection of efforts.

...or we'll tax and spend our way into the next dark age period and accomplish nothing while learning the Earth is a whole lot more complex than they figured it was.

reply to post by InTheFlesh1980

There is simply not enough data to support claims on either side.

The earth is estimated to be over 4.5 billion years old. We have *accurate* climate data for perhaps a few hundred years, probably less. In fact, the data gets far too vague the further back you go.

Are you for real? "a few hundred years"?!

Here's that science gap, rearing it's ulgy head.

The reality is just the opposite. We can actually look back, quite accurately, as far back as 800,000 (eight hundred thousand) Years!. [Ice Cores ]

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


The ignorant speaks the loudest OP, even if they like the 5%.

Meanwhile let me go burn bunch of tires and chop trees, cause it doesn't do anything bad, cause you know earth will repair itself etc logic of the anti's.

Oh hello Beijing, how is the smog holding up?

I'm sit on a strange angle to this debate in that I don't deny climate change and I don't deny that it appears to be happening at a less than comfortable rate. I have read charts, articles, opinions, seen graphs and watched videos regarding both sides of the debate in where multiple causes for climate change can be attributed, not just humans. I am not a scientist, climatologist or what-have-you-ist, so my views are not deeply entrenched in any one side of the issue.

I have no problem with taking action to preserve our resources and our planet. You'd have to be stupid to not want to do that. I believe the climate changes all the time, just not on time scales that we can experience or comprehend.

I do have a problem with the "solutions" that are being given to us, by force like "carbon tax," "green" living. Do you know how much "green living" costs? Someone is making money off of that and anyone who denies that fact is just as naive as someone who denies the climate is changing.

What I have a HUGE problem with is that the U.N. has an agenda and it's SOLE reason for the screaming urgency to push such agenda is that human beings are the sole cause for the warming we're seeing today. So of course they're going to have a study that says they're 95% positive that all greenhouse gas emissions and global warming comes from humans. Human settlement as it exists today is not "sustainable," according to the United Nations.

Yesteryears scientist were saying we were headed into a mini ice age back in the 70's ...Today's scientists are saying the planet is going to boil . Humans have always migrated to new areas that were conducive to how they wanted to live and have lived in pretty differing extremes . Weather way up north to the ones living on the equator .Weather next to the ocean that keeps rising to the great deserts of our earth . ..Now a bunch of people who have not been elected have formed a group of yes men to make data say what they want it to say ...figures don't lie but liars figure ...go figure ...peace

The question is not whether or not climate change is happening. It is quite clear through any observation and data that it is. This is indisputable and undeniable.

Now, prove to me again how we know that it is humans that are causing this and NOT a naturally reoccurring cycle of our planet. I don't think anyone can.

There are periods known to science of extreme heat and extreme cold on our planet. These are recorded to be well before man entered the carbon emissions age. The planet is going to change the climate on its own whether we do anything or not. We might be adding to the problem, but it is the arrogance and ignorance of humanity that actually believes that we have some inkling of control over any cosmic body, let alone our entire planet... when we can't even understand and comprehend the meager workings of our own bodies.

No. Climate change is real and I won't deny it. But to take the arrogant and ridiculous stance that humans caused it, thereby giving us so much more credit then we actually deserve... that is a lie. Humans have as much threat to this planet as fleas to a dog.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

The reality is just the opposite. We can actually look back, quite accurately, as far back as 800,000 (eight hundred thousand) Years!. [Ice Cores ]

Yes, science will tend to rear its ugly head. Ice cores have a multitude of limitations in climatology research resulting in a wide variation of interpretation. The limitations are known and well documented, resulting in a margin of error that vastly undermines the modern "climate change" agenda.

Climate Data Info - Ice Cores

In the case of temperature no direct measurement is possible. The temperature values are estimated from different isotopes of oxygen and hydrogen. The methodology is based on the assumption that different isotopes evaporate at different rates depending on the temperature. It is generally considered that the best estimate of temperature from ice cores is based on the use of both Oxygen-18 and Deuterium. Another complication is that ice is not stationary, which means that the ice collected at lower layers may not be the ice that was originally underneath the upper layers. Despite all of these limitations, it is generally accepted that ice cores give a good representation of temperature over very long periods. They are able to answer such questions as what drives the cycle of ice ages and warm periods and what is the role of CO2 in long-term climate change.

There are direct admissions that ice cores result in no direct measurement of temperature, but yet the method is "widely accepted" for determining temperature? Amongst which scientists?

seeker1963
reply to post by SquirrelNutz

 

Sign me up!

I am sure I am already on the terrorist watch list.

After all,

I am a veteran.
I speak out against my government.
I believe in the Constitution.
I am aware of the collusion between the so called Democratic party and Republican Party to take away the sovereignty of the United States in order to create a New World Order.
I want to end the Federal Reserve Bank.....................

Drum Roll please...........................

And now because I don't believe in the Climate Change Scam????

Bash away! I really don't care anymore what you folks that want to willingly become slaves care.......sigh

Explain this to me. I'm with you on EVERY bullet point above.

Except, the subject of this thread. Where are you people getting your info, anyway?!

strange how 'that report' does not make much mention of the global temperature standstill for the last 15 years, or that Antarctic ice is at the most its ever been? And Arctic ice is not far behind? three 'cold' summers in a row in Europe? There are plenty of reports from across america on ATS about the cold, as well as the warmth, or lack of it.
I think I'll stick with the daily updates from Climate depot rather than the UN spokesman, I wonder what his job is worth?

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

I do have a problem with the "solutions" that are being given to us, by force like "carbon tax," "green" living. Do you know how much "green living" costs? Someone is making money off of that and anyone who denies that fact is just as naive as someone who denies the climate is changing.

What I have a HUGE problem with is that the U.N. has an agenda and it's SOLE reason for the screaming urgency to push such agenda is that human beings are the sole cause for the warming we're seeing today. So of course they're going to have a study that says they're 95% positive that all greenhouse gas emissions and global warming comes from humans. Human settlement as it exists today is not "sustainable," according to the United Nations.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

Exactly! How many people that believe this have any knowledge whatsoever about the United Nations backed "AGENDA 21"????

It is mapped out fairly well as to what their intentions are for those whom would just read this monstrosity of insanity!

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


Plastic just staying the soil for 100s of years is enough for me to say humans are alrdy messing up the planets natural order, we alrdy caused the damaged, we have to fix it.

If we were living like caveman, then yeah sure, i would agree, but we have technology to harness radioactive energy(and the negative aspect of it), mine minerals and modify them..

yeah humans are not causing anything.. sure.


You damaged a growing tree, now its mutated, trying to fix itself. The mutation is going to make all living things living on the tree suffer.

reply to post by InTheFlesh1980


Can you please refute, to the best of your abilities, pts 4 & 5 of the OP.

Or, point me in the direction of other works where it has already been done to your satisfaction?!


Seriously, this might be the most baffling topic for me on all of ATS.

I don't understand the denial. AT. ALL.

Convince me. Teach me. I've been known to change my mind before, but please - SOMEBODY - present an intelligent argument. Not just baseless rhetoric.

Thanks in advance.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


He is tapping into the anti-science republicans of ATS with those bullets points. By the looks of stars, it is working.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

Explain this to me. I'm with you on EVERY bullet point above.

Except, the subject of this thread. Where are you people getting your info, anyway?!

Your thread title asked for those whom don't believe as you do to let themselves be known, correct?

I did just that!

Have you not heard of Agenda 21? I suggest you check into it. Climate Change is a big part of the propaganda to make Agenda 21 happen!

Also have you not seen the Climate Change deniers called "terrorists" by those whom are pushing it? I have!

So I hope hope that explains why I replied the way I did! Quite frankly, I am being tired of being called out as a terrorist for not believing what I am being told! Not that you said, or referred to me as being a terrorist in any way, that was just my take and attitude for being a "Climate Denier"!

I am not saying in any way that we can't do things differently. But when it is the governments whom are saying that by taxing us little people while allowing the big corporations to continue poisoning our planet, it is hard for me to buy into it!

Oh wait they must be ready to roll out some new tax grab, carbon tax isn't enough. Really, what are we supposed to do? Can't even believe one thing any of them say, one minute it is warming the next it is cooling. We as slaves to the economy have to work, and how do we do that without a way to get there.

If these people really cared and weren't looking for a way to justify their carbon tax that we have no way of getting around using, wouldn't they bring in a way to get rid of the pollution by going after the corporations that create the most CO2's. I see nothing of the sort happening. Maybe the reason Florida is sinking is because the aquifiers are being depleted and the land is sinking, look at the sink holes.

Come on this is all getting ridiculous, get ready to empty your wallet from the little bit you have left after spending your week driving back and forth to work. Start with the top down, I think most of us are doing our part. Sorry I live in the north, waiting to see what this winter brings, I would love and welcome some warmth, but will have to run my furnace and plug the atmosphere with my emissions. sorry, bring on the warming...

reply to post by luciddream


No #.

To be fair. It might be my own fault. I cross-referenced my thread with a denial one, and apparently, these folks found their way to the thread first.

I am blown away by this one. Completely.

I guess now that it's mainstream science (EVERYwhere, but America) in order to be on the conspiratorial side of things, you have to be in the extreme minority.

Okay, it's starting to make sense, now.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

Can you please refute, to the best of your abilities, pts 4 & 5 of the OP.

Or, point me in the direction of other works where it has already been done to your satisfaction?!

Sure. Here is item 4 from the OP:

4) Why do Americans - and, almost exclusively Americans - continue to deny climate change?

Public opinion on climate change

A September 2011 Angus Reid Public Opinion poll found that Britons (43%) are less likely than Americans (49%) or Canadians (52%) to say that "global warming is a fact and is mostly caused by emissions from vehicles and industrial facilities." The same poll found that 20% of Americans, 20% of Britons and 14% of Canadians think "global warming is a theory that has not yet been proven."

Exclusively Americans? It took me 3 minutes to find data to refute you. I guess you can scratch item 4 off your OP.