Garden City Mall On Lockdown After Reports Of Nearby Shooting

TKDRL
reply to post by mistersmith

 

So what do you base your theory on? Do you know a lot of gun owners personally? Have you discussed it with them? Are you from an urban area? A good portion of people that spout off nonsense like that are from urban areas, and act as if urban is all that counts, or all that exists.

For many of us out there, having a gun is the difference of whether there is meat on the family table or not. Being able to defend against a misguided human is a plus, I am personally more worried about things like wolf/coyote hybrid packs, lynx, bobcat, and lots of other things that would like to come eat my chickens, or the neighbor's kids. More guns than people in areas that I live in, yet we don't have the violence problems that urban areas seem to be plagued with. Fist fights every now and then happen, that's about the extent of it.

All that you have said is true for me and my neighbors PLUS it is at best 45 minutes under lights and siren for police to get to my spread and that is if we haven't had snow or a lot of rain recently. I would guess it is much the same for many folks. Had a couple of guys last month slow-driving the driveway into my place while I was in town. Turned out when they knocked on the door that they were lost but my wife greeted them with an AR 15 in one hand. They understood the message and were respectful.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I don't think it is a stupid comment at all. You don't see people in European countries carry guns except for the Police and so forth. Quite simply the so called right of the American people is a relic of when America became independent and of a bye gone era. I don't support Obama on a lot of his policies but I do think he is right in calling for a cracking down on gun ownership. Quite simply there is NO justification for owning a gun except in wartime when your own country is being invaded.

The logic speaks for itself. The more guns that are in the general population then unfortunately it is more and more likely that more shootings en masse of children in schools, etc will take place. Yes here in the UK we have the occasional tradedy like the Hungerford shootings in the 1980s and more recently in Whitehaven, Cumbria but such incidents are rare. By contrast there seems to be mass shootings every other month these days. America is not a safe happy place to visit.

reply to post by FlyersFan


But that is in the remit of the Police department to sort out. It is not for civilians to carry out vigilante justice! If we can do it here in Europe then surely America can do too.

nancyliedersdeaddog

Wirral Bagpuss
What AGAIN? As an outsider looking in I can see that there are far too many shootings in America these days. I'm sorry but the time has come to introduce a complete ban on guns. If people cant handle guns responsibly then there can be no justification for them being in mainstream circulation. Here in the UK the only people with access to guns are the armed forces, Police, security services. Oh and special licenses given to farmers. Other than that we don't have guns. Sure there are shootings but that is gangland shootings that sort of thing. And guns are obtained illegally from Eastern Europe. We need tighter boarder controls but that is another topic in itself. The point is most of us have never used a gun or can get one that easily. So we have far fewer acts of violence than seems to be the case in America. Seriously folks, is the loss of life and especially that of children really acceptable? No of course not. If action is not taken soon then you will find more and more shootings coming your way and more blood spilt. Next time it could be your child, your nearest and dearest. And I would bet then you would wish guns have been heavily restricted.

In times of war, then that is different. But in peace time no.

Do you believe 9/11 was an inside job and do you believe that America has done and will do some horrible things to it's people? I would love for you to know if you would also want to ban alcohol also since a large number of people die just from drunk driving accidents without even including other alcohol related deaths? I can't wait to hear your opinion.



Alcohol Deaths

Drunk Driving

edit on 25-9-2013 by nancyliedersdeaddog because: (no reason given)

Yes I do believe that 9/11 still has a lot of questions remaining and as to America turning against its people, well any country can go bad at anytime. America is not the centre of the universe. Regarding the banning of alcohol and drink driving, that is distracting from this debate. It is a topic for another debate and has no relevance to this one.

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss

If you want to wait around for the authorities to save your ass, that is your choice. Well, no not really, you don't get to make that choice for yourself.

Wirral Bagpuss
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

But that is in the remit of the Police department to sort out. It is not for civilians to carry out vigilante justice! If we can do it here in Europe then surely America can do too.

You either didn't read prior posts or you don't believe them. If you want to make informed posts try reading the thread first if you don't believe the opposing posts challenge them to educate yourself.

And by the way, I don't particularly consider following Europe's lead an important consideration.

TKDRL
reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss

 

If you want to wait around for the authorities to save your ass, that is your choice. Well, no not really, you don't get to make that choice for yourself.

Lets see, bad guys show up threatening my family and I say "how about you nice folks put down your weapons and wait 45 minutes for the police to get here". Hey wait a minute that is what I WOULD do the only difference is I would be well armed and capable of protecting my family if the bad guys decided that waiting for the police to arrive would be inconvenient.

reply to post by whywhynot


We have lived without guns in Europe for decades without any major problems. If someone intruded into my house I would use the pervibal fire poker as a means of self defence. No need for guns at all. If us Europeans can cope without guns then I am sure Americans can too.

Wirral Bagpuss
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I don't think it is a stupid comment at all. You don't see people in European countries carry guns except for the Police and so forth. Quite simply the so called right of the American people is a relic of when America became independent and of a bye gone era. I don't support Obama on a lot of his policies but I do think he is right in calling for a cracking down on gun ownership. Quite simply there is NO justification for owning a gun except in wartime when your own country is being invaded.

The logic speaks for itself. The more guns that are in the general population then unfortunately it is more and more likely that more shootings en masse of children in schools, etc will take place. Yes here in the UK we have the occasional tradedy like the Hungerford shootings in the 1980s and more recently in Whitehaven, Cumbria but such incidents are rare. By contrast there seems to be mass shootings every other month these days. America is not a safe happy place to visit.

Why would you need to speak for me?

Have you ever had a javalina come into your yard and try to kill your dog? How about a bobcat? Mountain Lion? Rattlesnake?

Have you ever walked out of your busienss with $30,000 in cash to take to the bank?

You think too much like a city person. You need to understand the country perspective.

Wirral Bagpuss
reply to post by whywhynot

 

We have lived without guns in Europe for decades without any major problems. If someone intruded into my house I would use the pervibal fire poker as a means of self defence. No need for guns at all. If us Europeans can cope without guns then I am sure Americans can too.

The ridiculousness of your reply betrays your position. I'll tell you what you grab a poker and I'll grab a gun and we will see how that works out for you. Using that type of silly military strategy would cause you to lose a war. Oh umm, right. Sort of a bringing a knife to a gunfight thing, what!

Wirral Bagpuss

nancyliedersdeaddog

Wirral Bagpuss
What AGAIN? As an outsider looking in I can see that there are far too many shootings in America these days. I'm sorry but the time has come to introduce a complete ban on guns. If people cant handle guns responsibly then there can be no justification for them being in mainstream circulation. Here in the UK the only people with access to guns are the armed forces, Police, security services. Oh and special licenses given to farmers. Other than that we don't have guns. Sure there are shootings but that is gangland shootings that sort of thing. And guns are obtained illegally from Eastern Europe. We need tighter boarder controls but that is another topic in itself. The point is most of us have never used a gun or can get one that easily. So we have far fewer acts of violence than seems to be the case in America. Seriously folks, is the loss of life and especially that of children really acceptable? No of course not. If action is not taken soon then you will find more and more shootings coming your way and more blood spilt. Next time it could be your child, your nearest and dearest. And I would bet then you would wish guns have been heavily restricted.

In times of war, then that is different. But in peace time no.

Do you believe 9/11 was an inside job and do you believe that America has done and will do some horrible things to it's people? I would love for you to know if you would also want to ban alcohol also since a large number of people die just from drunk driving accidents without even including other alcohol related deaths? I can't wait to hear your opinion.



Alcohol Deaths

Drunk Driving

edit on 25-9-2013 by nancyliedersdeaddog because: (no reason given)

Yes I do believe that 9/11 still has a lot of questions remaining and as to America turning against its people, well any country can go bad at anytime. America is not the centre of the universe. Regarding the banning of alcohol and drink driving, that is distracting from this debate. It is a topic for another debate and has no relevance to this one.

I'm not going to lie but I find that a little crazy you would be fine with people giving up their guns and control to a government that had no problem killing their own citizens? If you want to ban Guns because they kill so many people then you should also want to ban alcohol that kills 75,000 people a year and shortens lives up to 30 years. I really don't see why you wouldn't answer my question about banning alcohol since it's a simple yes or no? I agree America isn't the center of the universe but our future does have a huge impact on quite a few of other countries. I really do hope you answer my question about banning alcohol.

Edit: When you say any country can go bad at any time that kind of proves my point about it being stupid to ban guns and that very reason was why the 2nd amendment was written in the first place.

reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog


Interesting that you mention the second amendment.
That's the one that ensures that , by being armed, you'll never get taken over by a rogue government - right ?

So how's that working out for you folks ........?

mistersmith.

mistersmith
reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog

 

Interesting that you mention the second amendment.
That's the one that ensures that , by being armed, you'll never get taken over by a rogue government - right ?

So how's that working out for you folks ........?

mistersmith.

You need courage and capability. We have one, not the other.

And they call these guys I share my country with "men".

mistersmith
reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog

 

Interesting that you mention the second amendment.
That's the one that ensures that , by being armed, you'll never get taken over by a rogue government - right ?

So how's that working out for you folks ........?

mistersmith.

I never said citizens being armed will completely stop a rogue government but if our government did turn into Stalin era soviet union I would rather fight and die than get executed on my knees. Call me crazy but even if I disagree with many US policies I still don't think civil war is necessary for change and it could be done civilly. I will say that I do find it nuts that someone who thinks 9/11 was an inside job would be fine with that same corrupt government banning all guns.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I think frightened is precisely the right word.

My contention is that most guns are not used for hunting game, though of course many are.
Since most Americans live in cities, and eat from supermarkets and restaurants, their guns are obviously for a different purpose.
You were apparently more anxious to tell us you're not frightened, than to read what I wrote with sufficient care to actually understand what I was saying. This "fearlessness" seems to be common among the gun owners of the USA -- guns bolster their self-image and make them feel powerful.
And you only need to feel powerful if you're not.

You live in a carefully created and constantly reinforced climate of fear.
You are bombarded by horror stories of death and destruction from every quarter.
Every day a new threat to your existence emerges, a virus - a meteorite - unemployment - war .....
You fear for your children in their schools, and build impenetrable rooms in your homes in which to hide.

So don't tell me you're not frightened.

mistersmith.

reply to post by whywhynot


Over a distance of less than twenty five feet, with a home advantage and the correct tactical discipline (stealth, sharp ears, spatial awareness and so on) a blade or blunt instrument totally trumps a gun. Given that most European dwellings do not have open spaces of twenty five feet in them, it actually makes no sense to use one for home defence here.

I am confident that if a gun toting robber or maniac came into my house, my machete and my Bowie knife would neutralise that threat very comfortably, because the floor plan puts my short range weapons at an advantage over someone with a pistol, shotgun, or rifle.

reply to post by TrueBrit


The problem with using a knife for defense is that its effectiveness is directly related to the relative strength, agility and combat skills of the combatants. Also defending yourself against multiple attackers would be difficult except for a very skilled and highly trained individual. The gun allows an individual of old age, lesser strength and skill protect themselves even against multiple attackers. Without superior strength, ability and training it is just another butter knife.

Since you cannot protect yourself and your loved ones in GB in most cases with the benefit of a gun then believe whatever gets you thru the night. I'm still relying on my Glock .40

By the way, don't get too confident in your knife wielding abilities, this guy might come thru the door. The average human reaction time to stimulus is .2 sec, you wouldn't even see it coming.

reply to post by TrueBrit


That's great you could stop a bad guy who has a gun with a knife but what about the vast majority who can't? I live in a city with a population of a little over 600,000 and I'm lucky enough to live in a very safe neighborhood but still my house was broken into once, dad's car stolen, I caught someone trying to break into my car once, aunt's house broken into twice, one of my friends older sister kidnapped and raped, and another one of my friends sisters was almost raped by the same man, that all happened in less than 5 miles from my house. How crazy is that?

reply to post by whywhynot


It is highly unlikely that anyone of that prowess would be bothering with breaking and entering. I believe that this gentleman is hardly an average gun owner, and that what he is doing would be just about impossible for at least ninety nine percent of house breakers, here or anywhere else in the world.

A lesser specimen would not be nearly as quick, and would still have to out maneouvre me on my own turf, not to mention see me coming, when I take my oppertunity to bury a four inch wide, carefully sharpened blade, right in the side of his neck. Anyone quick, and well trained enough to do that in the first place is going to be next to impossible to defeat even if I happen to be packing some kind of flesh shredding SMG, and stun grenades.

reply to post by nancyliedersdeaddog


It's not a vast majority who haven't the strength to do what needs doing, just a majority, and they, to be fair, nine times out of ten, will get killed or robbed no matter what they bought to the fight. Generally speaking it doesn't matter how old someone is, either they can fight one way or another, or they die, plain and simple, and it doesn't matter how they are armed.

There was a little old lady, I think it was in London. She spotted some thieves smashing up the windows of a jewellers shop, tottered over to them, and beat them up with her handbag, until they ran off. They had arrived on scooters, and had helmets on, and none the less she kept wailing on them. They had bloody great sledge hammers with them. She had her purse. Its not what you have that counts, but what you do with it.