An Important Message - An Attempt To Get You To See The Danger That Is Staring Us All In The Face

reply to post by Happy1

I personally don't believe in the flu vaccine, but every year up to this year, there's been a HUGE push to get everyone the flu vaccine by Sept. Not a word of it this year.

Strongest part of your message as I see it. You just gave me the woolies.:

Thank you For the thread Happy.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


I don't know why you think this will destroy America. It is actually the exact thing we need to bring us into the modern healthcare era.

Medicare for all, that will be reality in the future. Instead of insurance premiums, we will get an increased and progressive Medicare tax.

Then we will finally have Universal Healthcare. It's just that since we are America, we are too stupid (or a portion of us are) to go directly to the inevitable and only sustainable solution...that is why we have to go through this painful process trying to save a dying system and then only turn to the real solution when that system has collapsed.

We should have had Medicare for all instead of the ACA.

It's already worse in Europe,
England in particular. If it wasn't
for immigration providing a younger
tax base, the crisis would be out of control.






Here is a 51 Minute documentary for those with the time
and who are open to being deprogrammed.
youtube / Demographic Winter

The best thing people can do to deal with a failing health care system is to take better care of themselves and their children. If the systemic failures of our current modes of health care are inevitable and imminent (as many, including myself, agree), there is little more we can do.

Frankly, I think it's a good thing. Far too many use the "advances" of modern medicine as a preemptive excuse to trash their bodies/minds and lead otherwise unhealthy lifestyles anyway. Hopefully the complete failure of the American health care system will foster interest in and support of holistic, natural medicine...

...which is largely cheap or free. So... nevermind, that probably won't happen.

Government Shut down ? Sept 2013 news Oct 1st shutdown...Sept 18th 2013 article

(Reuters) - Republicans in the House of Representatives set in motion on Wednesday a plan that ultimately could avert a federal government shutdown on October 1, turning a later battle over the debt ceiling into the main event in the conservative struggle against President Barack Obama's healthcare program.

Obama accused Republicans of engaging in extortion by demanding a delay in "Obamacare" as the price of avoiding default that, were it to happen, would smash the U.S. economy.

Hopefully people will wake up to this political people rape!

Trinity

I feel bad for the people who have conditions that require constant care throughout their lives. I've been lucky enough to be pretty healthy. I've never had health insurance. I haven't been to a doctor in at least 10 years. I haven't been to a dentist in 5 or 6 years. I haven't taken any medication, not even over-the-counter, in probably 12+ years.

This doesn't mean I haven't been sick or injured, but it's amazing what water, sleep, and nutrition will do for you. Plus, learning to fix yourself up isn't too hard for minor injuries. If you know how to sew, you can fix most cuts yourself unless you cut an organ or severed a muscle.

This is a scary time for people with life-long illnesses and diseases, but I think most of us rely on doctors and medicine a LOT more than we need to. The amount of young people with prescriptions to fill is just sickening.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Well I must say that your apprehension is alarming.
I have spent the last 2 months deeply involved with a patient(s)
of the Medicare/United Healthcare/Social Security System.
Needless to say, that is a direct involvement with the Insurance System as well.
Now , to put things into perspective,
we have this:

Link www.businessinsider.com... 3 minutes of your time

and to Polarize, we have this:

www.youtube.com... 6:24 Minutes of your time


While you may consider these points unrelated due to your Focal Point Thread,
the fact is that these issues are on target and fundamentally intertwined.
The Bottom line is "profit and loss". In Fact, this should be the title of an in depth
Documentary regarding unbridled capitalism,insurance,and derivatives.

To Be Clear, The Great Social Security Cookie Jar has been Plundered by Both Parties.

The insurance Companies have been well fed over the past 3 decades in particular.

The issue is, the Insurance Companies Gambled in Derivatives.

Check This Link www.justice.org...

Now that it is time to pay the piper and make "good' on the Fundamental

Definition of an "Insurance Policy", the cat is out of the bag, and The rats are jumping ship.

The moment "Insurance" became a risky Derivative Investment Poker Chip,

the Concept lost all value and integrity.

Now it is time to pay, and pay dearly.

The "Profiteers" chose unwisely.

True Capitalist Bouncers at the door of The Casino kick you out into

the Ally when you lose. They do not give you "Bail Out" Chips to sit in again.

This Policy should be enforced not only for The Financial industry, but The Insurance

Industry, and Defense /Transportation/Infrastructure Industries as well.

Granted, though there are times when "The Populace Government" must hesitantly respond

to Stabilize a threat to The National Economy, it should not be "Abused" in parallel

to the "Food Stamp" relief program.


It would be best to draft a new Decree that will create a more solid structure and prevent

this spoiled and reckless behavior from degrading the future of

The United States of America ever again.

Best Regards,,,thanks for engaging my thoughts. S&F to your great thread. ThumbsUp (TU)
P.S. Edit
By The way, The Big Bail Out occurred as our last President strolled out of The White House.
The amount of the Bail Out was greater than the cost of building all the roads, bridges, buildings,
dams, and defense war machinery,social programs, and a great deal more,can you even imagine?,
than all money spent from prior signing of the Declaration of Independence to The Emergency
Economic Stabilization Act of 2008.

It was at that time, the greatest transfer of wealth in Human History on Earth.

I appreciate your post. The reason why the health insurance industry is going to fail is because the government has passed laws that doesn't allow insurance to work like insurance. I understand what you're saying but to my knowledge everything you're saying is common knowledge among actuaries. There's actually a really good article on it and I will post the link. Keep in mind this is a very in depth look at the reason behind health insurance failing.

The gist is this: Nixon passed a law that required health insurance to turn into what's called managed care which is the equivalent of car insurance paying for oil changes. Insurance is supposed to be a high severity/low frequency product, otherwise it doesn't work from a financial sense. The repercussions of turning an insurance product into high severity/low severity/high frequency/low frequency products is the reason for every issue that exists. To explain it is unnecessary because the author of this article explained it from EVERY angle. It's great and I highly recommend it.

It's several pages so keep in mind:

www.theatlantic.com...

Edit: Also the reason why other insurance industries will fail is the same reasons. Life insurance is going to fail because they have placed more of their business model on investment products instead of traditional life insurance that uses actuarial tables to determine premiums.

Same thing with property and casualty companies. In many cases government laws have forced these companies to provide insurance to people that should not from an actuarial perspective be getting insurance (I.e. bad drivers or people who decide to build houses in spots that have had 10 tornadoes).

reply to post by intrptr

For someone who claims to be "ready" when grim reaper visits, i can only say you must prove it when the time comes. I'm from Missouri and words mean nothing whereas deeds mean everything.

I'm also somewhat offended with the hint of a eugenic attitude in you're response. Are elderly people now useless eaters? Should we look at them with disgust if they fail to fall on the sword and make life better for you? Actually. you "ARE" callous. Too callous.

As for the OP who is "horrified" with the future,...what the hell did you expect? All that you perceive came with warnings from back in the day. The fact of the matter resides within incredibly nimble minds. People who lost the ability to think on their own and succumbed to the urgings of snake oil salesmen they elected into office, who incidentally, decided to work for others rather than you, must now reap their dilemma.

The problem is really simple. Quit worrying the plight of the elite. Although they imply their situation is dire, and that they will lose the desire to get out of bed tomorrow morning unless we have pity on them and give all we have, i suggest you "man up" and take your share from the table! Believe me,... they will survive. They may have to work harder than what their used to if they want the life their accustomed too, they however, WILL survive!

Once you grow a backbone, i suggest you become collective and take control of the Govt. and allow the functions in the institutions within Govt. do as what was intended by the framers. WHAT A CONCEPT!...a country ruled by the masses rather than a govt. ruled by the elites! I don't know if you are aware of current events... but i think thats' what was in Washington's mind during the Revolution War!

Whats hard about this? I learned a long time ago to think the opposite of the musings of our leaders. Like...for instance...

Dictate no business or Govt institution is too big to fail. If they are that inept, they deserve the dust bin and allow others to fill the void through competition.

Show the FED the door!...nuff said.

Wage war on corruption! Demand investigations and prosecute offenders regardless of who is involved.

Demand the lawmakers craft the legislation where corruption will be self-evident.

Demand Govt. operate with transparency.

Demand whistle blowers are rewarded for their deeds.

Require the Press to produce any wrongdoings and hold those responsible,...responsible.

Safeguard our borders and require all immigrants to satisfy the law of the land.

Demand all Govt. officials salary and benefits reflect the average of the majority of Americans.

Demands your rights and never surrender any of them regardless of the authorities directives to "serve and protect" you.

Reevaluate past policies that show a detriment the the nation as a whole. i.e., "Free Trade" vs. "Fair Trade", "New World Order" vs. "Isolation," etc,.

And, for the OP who's wet himself, I might suggest you get past the notion that barring Health Ins. Cos. from being middle men in our quest for health care is socialistic in nature and demand tax revenue supplied to a nonprofit organization to pay the country's health bills.

NightSkyeB4Dawn

The baby boomers are now sucking those dollars back quicker than a Dyson vacuum picking up sand, and Blue Cross the all those super wealthy insurance companies have gone from spotting, to frank bleeding to hemorrhaging.


If you think this is no big deal or that it isn’t all that bad; go talk to anyone you know that works in the healthcare industry and ask them if they think everything is okay or it is no big deal. The insurance companies are so desperate they are trying to pawn off stone soup as Vichyssoise. The bottom in about to fall out the barrel. Americans are going to have to face a completely new model for healthcare that is going to seem foreign and probably woefully inadequate.

Same with pensions, with an aging population this is going to snowball. Very simply people living longer is terrible for the economy.

intrptr

I live among a lot of older people. I am amazed at the care they receive for their ailments. Some are between 80 and 90 years old. They get free heart ablations, spinal surgery, hip implants, forever checkups and diagnosis all of which are very expensive.

Every time they "glitch" they are 911 phone call away from rescue by swift ambulances and medics. They evac them to the finest hospitals, the best doctors and most advanced medical equipment to patch them up and put them back in place at home so they age another few years.

I think that you've hit the nail on the head. I recently read a book called "Super Freakenomics" and one of the chapters looked at the aging populace. Their study mainly looked at death rates caused by heart failure and cancer though. They found that due to medical advances, cancer was quickly catching up to heart failure as the leading cause of death. The medical community can usually repair/extend life to the heart, but cancer is a whole different story. This led to a longer life span which is slowly bleeding the system dry.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


immigration and health tourists are causing a big problem in the uk .

and as for the older people being a strain on the health system , please don't forget that they are the ones that have paid the most into the system .

as for the american health system , i think the biggest problem there is the outrageous charges that the hospitals charge, even for the most basic treatments .

reply to post by Bilk22


The doctors have lost the most. In, fact they have lost the ability to even practice their craft. They have become puppets. The insurance companies script their every move. They are told who can be observed, who can be admitted, what test they can do, what medicines they can prescribe, even when to kick a pt out of the hospital. They can fight the insurance company's decision but that is a time consuming process that will tie them so they have little time to care for the hundreds of other patients that need their help. If they don't do what the insurance company says then the insurance company threatens not to pay. The hospital will be quick to show the rebellious doctor the door, strip his privalages from their hospital and fracture his practice.

Doctors were promised heaven and are now experiencing Hell.

Many good post in this thread... IMO and having watched someone die in the year 2000 from cancer I think the "for profit hospitals" did more to destroy the health system and insurance companies about as much as anything that has been listed in this thread. $45 a day for a T.V. hung on a wall in a room and the outrageous cost of farma drugs, why because they can bill for it and get some percentage of the bill back from insurance..

8 days and $260,000 later the patient died. All they received for their care were 2 X-rays, (one to the head that killed them) I.V. drip and an Oncologist that would stop by once a day during his rounds to see how the patient was doing; he knew, along with everyone else she would not recover....the patient was dying from a brain tumor that manifested after a treatment of chemo for breast cancer... One small chemo bag during treatment was about $3750 and another $900 just to have a nurse hook them up to the bag and sit in a chemo chair... Until someone actually sees this stuff for themselves it is to outlandish for most to believe.

I do everything I can overseas. Dentist for teeth cleaning $60.... A crown with root canal $500 total.... I spent 3 days in isolation and ICU (they thought I might have gotten dengue fever) one ambulance ride two hospitals, several test, and I.V. plus meds cost $500.... if I had gone to the military hospital it would have been less than that.

I do have insurance on my wife from her home country. It is grade "A" and covers everything.. The cost per year for her is $565.. For me it would be $1350 because I am so blasted old...

If I were to get sick and knew it was the big one I will do everything I could to go and die in a country I was not even born in..... I refuse to give every last dime I have made over a lifetime to the U.S. system because I am dying....Not an option for everyone but my point is other countries have good viable programs that work for their population... Even Mexico (the few times I have gone for check ups) was better than the U.S. as far as cost and complete analysis IMO. To me unless you have a good family doctor you are just a bank/insurance account and a piece of meat when you go to the Doctors in a "for profit hospital".. I am not bitter just better informed because of what I have seen with my own eyes.. Out of the $260,000 the insurance settled with the hospital for about $95,000 (which was still stupid high) and the hospital took the money and smiled..... If it would have been me trying to fight them I would still be paying or in some debtors prison IMO.

Here's another bit of truth: Only 15% of medical school applicants can get a seat ... the other 85% are told there's no room in the class. Wanna talk conspiracy now? If the market was flooded with doctors, their prices would come down to attract patients to their practice. The Health Care System has absolutely zero interest (pun intended) in seeing fees at the counter coming down. Why??? The insurance industry would collapse overnight. Insurance was NEVER a good idea. The only thing insurance is good for is ensuring part of the money supply keeps flowing.

NightSkyeB4Dawn
reply to post by Bilk22

 

The doctors have lost the most. In, fact they have lost the ability to even practice their craft. They have become puppets. The insurance companies script their every move. They are told who can be observed, who can be admitted, what test they can do, what medicines they can prescribe, even when to kick a pt out of the hospital. They can fight the insurance company's decision but that is a time consuming process that will tie them so they have little time to care for the hundreds of other patients that need their help. If they don't do what the insurance company says then the insurance company threatens not to pay. The hospital will be quick to show the rebellious doctor the door, strip his privalages from their hospital and fracture his practice.

Doctors were promised heaven and are now experiencing Hell.

I have the exact opposite experience. My dad is 94. Up until a year ago, he was mobile, still driving and yes even still working - volunteering at the local hospital. He has gold standard coverages he's paid for out of pocket for all those years. Well a little less than a year ago his health declined. I saw how the doctors and hospitals prescribed every test and treatment they could possibly think of and kept him hospitalized on multiple occasions because he was a paying customer vs that being paid for by Uncle Sam. His ailments were not life threatening. They were gastrointestinal and skeletal issues. At 94, he experienced some stress fractures to vertebra, severely limiting his mobility. This came from age and not a fall. The doctors that prescribed the repeated scans and MRIs own the facilities. They were within the insurance co.s guidelines for doing so, but they were unnecessary. They even wanted to perform surgery to a 94 year old man. One nice fat payout that he probably wouldn't have lived through.

Now don't get me wrong, I of course want him to get the best care and treatment, but even having limited knowledge of anything medical related, I could see they were doing things that were unnecessary and bleeding the insurance company for payments. Nothing they were going to do for him was going to change his situation. But being a medical professional himself, he is conditioned to follow what's prescribed. I guess he, like everyone else would want to feel better too.

The whole system is a mess and greed is at the core of it at every turn. All parties are guilty. I'm a free market person, but when doctors treat their profession as a business rather than as a vocation, well there are going to be problems. My dad, as a dentist, had one chair in his office. If you had an appointment at 1:00pm, you saw him, yes him and not an assistant, at no later than 5 minutes after that time. Now dentists have 5 chairs and a half a dozen assistants. They jump from chair to chair. How good do you think their care is going to be vs that of a practitioner like my father was? Same happens in a doctor's office.

Oh, contributing to all of this? People running to the doctor or ER for sniffles and the doctors and hospitals are all too happy to see these people too. The system is broken from every angle and all because of greed. The sad part, the government won't do any better and probably much worse. Is there anything they do better than private industry?

So let me see if I understand this. Obama pushed his Affordable Care Act which is going to force people to pay for insurance. Some paying for insurance that they didn't pay for before, others paying more, etc. And the ONLY reason for this is to prop up a dying system and pay for the people making claims today? So we...the ones not yet digging into the benefits...are being raped for money to support those using the benefits. And at a time like this, in this economy we are being lied to that this is a solution when in reality it is a failed effort to draw out the problem and cost us more in the long run?

Yeah...I'm not at all surprised. This is what happens when those in power care more about how they look and appear to others, than the substance of their actions.

May I coin a phrase? ObamaDon'tCare.