ATS: IslamOnline: US Troops Reportedly Gassing Fallujah

Originally posted by cstyle226
I'm sure someone will be ANGRY at me for even saying that. I don't even really care anymore...I'm kinda getting tired of all the hate in this place, and I'll probably just stop posting, and maybe even reading. But I'm sure people will say "Fine, get out."

Just like you told me to get out of America.

When the American empire falls (as all do), we'll know why.

Look with the attitude you had I would say leave, but if you love your country I would say to stay. It is up to you.

Didnt I see that you ahd served in the Turk Army as a requirement? Dual citizenship huh? NATO army served......that might be part of your attitude in the sense that you have served your nation (which one?) and you get tired of the death and desruction. Didnt you say in a thread you couldnt wait to leave the USA?

Now you have me confused, seem to be backtracking a bit.

I do have dual citizenship and I was born in the USA. I do love this country's ideals, but am losing some of my affection for this country's attitude towards the rest of the world.

Yes I will be leaving within the next 5 years or so, because I want to.
Now if you think I should get out, (even earlier), that's fine.

I've learned that many conservatives would like the removal of the "blue states as well." (a joke) I am a liberal conservative by the way.

As for serving, it was in Turkey, during the American invasion last year...I served on the border there between Turkey and Iraq.

I am tired of the killing, but what makes me more disappointed is, is the "let's go murder 'em all" attitude that is prevalent on these forums. And the more I hear it, the more I empathize with the "opposition."

Because you can keep on killing, but that will not stop that which was claimed to be the reason you started the killing in the first place.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

cstyle226 and edsinger

You have both been warned for taking this discussion off topic and using this as a forum for personal debate and or threats.

This is a final warning.. Stay on topic or move on.

OK fine warning accepted.

So cstyle226 do you really believe that US forces are using gas (illegal weapons types) on the insurgents in fallujah?

When you served was it in an american uniform? I assume it was and therefore you understand the chain of command in the implementation of Chemical weapons right? I mean I could be wrong on this, but I do not think that we even have any of these in active stocks.

Are you familar with Crane in Indiana? Are they not destroying these weapons from the Cold War by treaty with the USSR even though it no longer exists?

The United States would not use chemical weapons on these people. The thing that lets you know that this is simply propaganda is that they claim that western media is covering it up. Are you kidding me?? The western media would be all over this. As for chem suits that disintegrate, I don't know why you would have these. I spent 10 years in the Air Force and put on many chem suits, none of which disintegrated. If we were truly in trouble in Falluja, we would simply drop a MOAB (the 23,000 pound air/fuel bomb) on the center of it and toast these people. It's quicker and does less damage to the infrastructure.

I don't believe they are gassing them. (I hope not) But to be honest, it would not surprise me, either. Another favorite saying of a lot of people on here have when the US gets caught doing something a little underhanded is, "Hey, it's war." But when the other side blows up a military convoy with a car bomb, they are despicable. (It's uneven, but understandable since I guess everyone is just cheerleading)

When I served, it was in Turkish uniform. Being a male Turkish citizen, I was required (and happy to) get trained, serve, and be in reserve.

And while I agree with your statement about the chain of command, one would have to ask himself: who in the "chain of command" thought Abu Grayab was alright...where did they get those leashes, and hoods, and all that gear. Obviously some soldiers took it upon themselves to improvise, and there was little supervision (or maybe it WAS supervised).

Therefore, one could believe possible, that if the soldiers came upon a cache of Chemical weapons (the original reason we went there was WMD; there or not? who knows), then they might take it upon themselves to give it a spray.

Now you may reply, US Soldiers would never break the rules like that, but then some people said that about Abu Ghrayab originally.

Then the common response to that might be, well, the orders for the prison were rather ambiguous, but the orders for the combat are not.

Well, how come they won't allow any of the Arab media in there to cover the fighting? Only coalition media is allowed...

I don't enjoy being the pessimist so often, but come on now...

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Turkish uniform huh? Cool! They do have the largest army in NATO

Yes I know that there is always the chance the US soldiers will do the wrong thing, it happens but that is far from the norm.

As for the prison, I just dont know on that one. They needed information as soldiers were dying, so I could see them doing these things, note most are mental things, not life threatening.

As for the troops using stocks of found WMD?? There wasnt any was there?

I thought the pepper spray was the most likely explanation.

Back on Topic Here.....

There are things going on in Iraq that no one knows about or is being denied outright. Was not the Iraqi News shut down for awhile? Also There must have been a better reason for forbidding Al-Jazeera to step foot in Iraq. Its controlling information. Media is not even allowed to photograph coffins arriving from Iraq. Its all in nature to control the flow of information, especially since things have not come close to going as well as expected. Was there not also a report that came out in the last year about Chemical Weapons being used in GW1? I don't know who did the report or what truth lies in it, but we do have Gulf War syndrome. Wether that explains it, I don't know. There needs to come a time where people really need to start seeing the other side from an observant standpoint to come to conclusions. I would venture a guess that 98% of the people on ATS have no idea what goes through the minds of not only a Muslim, but a radicalist one, This includes myself.

I do not know what goes through their minds. What I can see is that they are defending their religion and intrests, just as any of us would. Is it Justifiable? Maybe not in the Western World, but it may be in the Middle East. This is one of the things to add to the mix of what we will never know the Gods honest truth to. and as far as Al-Jazeera being credible, I seem to remember every single mainstream media outlet break to bring OBL's last video, plus sourcing them to countless kidnapping and beheading videos. Mainstream seems to only use them when they feel appropiate to lessen the view of Islam, IMHO. I personally do not agree with what anyone is doing over there, I just come to my own conclusions based off everones information.

Well, I know the Marines have CS gas in their inventory and we used it in urban warfare training. But CS gas is just an irritant, and non-lethal unless you put your face to the cannister and huff the gas. All Marines have to experience being gassed by CS in training. While I certainly wouldn't call the experience pleasant, I can say it's a lot better than getting shot or fragged.

You can see an example of how it's employed in the movie "Heartbreak Ridge" with Clint Eastwood in a scene where recon guys need to get the enemy out of a building.



[edit on 13-11-2004 by taibunsuu]

Originally posted by edsinger
As for the troops using stocks of found WMD?? There wasnt any was there?

I thought the pepper spray was the most likely explanation.

I was saying that maybe Chemical weapons are there, obviously in small amounts (even though it sounds insane these days).

Maybe the "insurgents" are using them and blaming it on the "coalition."
Maybe the "coalition" is using them and blaming it on the "insurgents."
Maybe it's pepper spray and tear gas.

The thing that bothers me, is why do they only allow pro-western media in there. Can't we allow all journalists in there? Or do we have to control the message getting out of there so we can give channels like Faux News something to puff their chests up about, who, as of now, is saying that the "coalition" has killed 1200 "insurgents."

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Well I would think the 'other' non US news groups would report things also, remember it is just not the US news that is there.

As for AL Jeez-Lie-A....they are worse than CBS and publish blantant lies and deception. If they could just post news and not propaganda then I would say let them in.

Example: They like to show children hurt by an American bomb, but fail to show what the terrorist do to the normal iraqi accused of collabartion. In other words, I feel that they are nothingmore than an outlet used to present disinformation to hurt the US cause and ONLY that.

But American media shows none of the civilian casualties, and calls everyone terrorists...so, what's the difference?

Originally posted by cstyle226
But American media shows none of the civilian casualties, and calls everyone terrorists...so, what's the difference?

Thats true, they do not show civilian causulties nor do they show collilition causulties.

No they do not call everyone terrorists......and you know it.

The US won't even allow the flag-draped coffins to be shown, because it might bother the families when in reality, they are completely anonymous.

The real reason is because when Americans get a pictured sense of what is happening, they might stop pounding on the war drums, and all these armchair generals who support the war from the comfort of their living rooms might lose their excitement.

As for them not calling them all terrorists...what do they call them then?

Originally posted by cstyle226
The US won't even allow the flag-draped coffins to be shown, because it might bother the families when in reality, they are completely anonymous.

The real reason is because when Americans get a pictured sense of what is happening, they might stop pounding on the war drums, and all these armchair generals who support the war from the comfort of their living rooms might lose their excitement.

As for them not calling them all terrorists...what do they call them then?

Well the ones that bomb civilian targets "terrorists"

Some of the others, insurgents, Bathists, and foreign mercenaries

What I do not call them "freedom fighters"

Originally posted by edsinger


What I do not call them "freedom fighters"

Some of them are, though.

Originally posted by cstyle226

Originally posted by edsinger


What I do not call them "freedom fighters"

Some of them are, though.

Well what freedom do they fight for? The return of Saddam?

If they are fighting to get the Americans out, all they have to do is vote.

These 'folks' dont want the vote to take place and that is the whole key as to whether they are freedom fighters or insurgents missing the old days when the Sunni's controlled Iraq.

I have heard countless times from numerous people that the US will be there forever in some form or another.

So the Mujahideen will not allow Iraq to become the new Saudi Arabia.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Originally posted by cstyle226
I have heard countless times from numerous people that the US will be there forever in some form or another.

So the Mujahideen will not allow Iraq to become the new Saudi Arabia.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Well I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but I highly doubt that we want to be there with 100k troops for a long time, I would say less than 2 more years will be needed, after that? maybe some dual bases to train the Iraqi's?? That could be a possibility, but less than 5k, unless some joint exercises or something. I guess at this point it all depends on Iran and what they do.

Well, I doubt it ends after Iraq...

What might our Defense Department be thinking:
(a thought cloud appears over Rumsfeld's head)

"Syria, you looking at me?"
"Iran, you want a piece of this?"
"N.Korea, don't think I don't see you..."