The Afterlife Revealed... Step By Step

Originally posted by King Loki

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by sled735
I'm sure some of you on ATS recognize some of the things Billy mentions in his story.
Anyone out there care to comment on what religion certain things mentioned go to?

I know Hinduism is there. And I see some Christian beliefs also.
Does anyone recognize anything else being mentioned?

When the body falls away, and the spirit moves beyond, it goes to whatever place it imagined as a human PERIOD. If you think you are going to meet 72 virgins you will. If you believe nothing exists after death you will experience that. NOT FOREVER, just the place you are most comfortable with. All things change after "the resting period". You will be brought into counsel and your life as you lived it (the latest and greatest) will be picked apart--what did you learn, did you untangle the secret of being a human in the first place; that being your job this time around..of course you didnt. You have/had all knowledge before being born AGAIN (sigh) but you simply dont remember your contract (that being the progression of your soul).

Can you show/link me the scientific journal that confirms we have a spirit ??

Because if you cannot you are basing your entire statement on something that you have made up in your own head basically.

edit on 18/8/13 by King Loki because: (no reason given)

Therein the conundrum on the topic. Please pardon me for injecting this logic into the discussion, because I would like to elaborate on the statement: "something that you have made up in your own head".

The only thing to say here is that there is no accepted scientific journal document,,confirmation or physical evidence that exists to prove anything, and even then, it is human content that would originate it anyway, which becomes a never ending tail chase for authenticity that could never resolve itself to a finite resolution.

As sure as I am of sound mind, you would believe you are as well. It does not matter. I believe you have to lose someone you dearly love, or a close friend, to be able to even talk intelligently about this subject, because it is totally realized in experience(s). The experiences are deeply personal, so while you have no doubt as to their respective reality, there is absolutely no way you could convince someone else, because it is 100% subjective information.

The conviction is that deep. Saying that, I am certainly not unique, so therefor, if I am not crazy, then the reality of spirit, soul and multiple physical lives must apply to all of us. I cannot prove myself correct, and you cannot prove me wrong, however, that condition will not last long. (again, so says me, if you think I am not a liar.)

Originally posted by King Loki

Originally posted by sled735
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Thank you for you post and staying "on topic".

This is a warning to all members, this thread is not about science vs. anything else. It is about the story of a man who channeled his message through his sister about what happened to him after leaving his body.

My questions were regarding which beliefs/religions went with the experience he had, and wanting to know if others could tell their experiences on anything mentioned in the story.

If we continue to stray off topic, I will ask the MODs to close this thread down immediately.

I don't give a damn about SCIENCE! Yes, I have read the scientific studies, and it made me laugh. No scientist can tell me what I and others have experienced are delusions caused from a brain fart.

Please stay on topic. Thank you.

Science is on topic because it explains everything and NO you have not read any scientific journal on the subject ... I know this for a fact because if you had you would have come to the same conclusion as every other scientist ...

I am on topic because I am saying the Author is a fraud and science has proven that what you guys are talking about is fairy tales ... Dimethyltryptamine is not a brain fart ... which once again shows you have not read anything on the subject at all.

And closing a thread full of fairy tales on a site that has a moto deny ignorance is the best option ... this subject matter should be discussed in they grey area.

I cant believe it's 2013 and people still believe in this ...

edit on 18/8/13 by King Loki because: (no reason given)

I'll post some for you in the morning when I get home. Right now I'm off to work. Don't tell me what I have done, and what I haven't done. Anyway, just because a freakin' scientist says it is a certain way, does not mean the world has to agree.
I live my life using the knowledge and wisdom I have obtained on my own. I don't need anyone else to explain things to me from their eyes/understanding only. I have my own "eyes" for that purpose, and they serve me well.

Good night.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Just Wow TOO; I cant believe it myself either. I dont know the english alphabet or how to type yet I am able; never read a book in my life and that infuriates me, why I never bothered to EVEN learn to speak. I love science particularly Genetics BLOOD and DNA strands (my field of major interest). You should leave the 'crazy catholics' and other self righteous alone, they will all end up on a post and beam crucified just as Jesus was (AFTER theyve left their material bodies) but only for a short time, then they meet their higher selves in counsel, (you would want to be a fly on the wall here for the slapping about and screamfests). All that I know about Babtist Churches is they are not in the BUSINESS OF 'actually' BABTIZING physically (I know this personally, I have asked and was refused this ritual), apparently they dont know what it entails means or discribes.

edit on 18-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

You do know that Jesus did not exist and that the entire Jesus story was ripped off from more ancient religions some formed over 12,500 years ago, 10,500 years before Jesus was even said to exist ... dont believe me ? go read the story of Horus from Egypt.

Here ill make it easy for you ... here is 10 Christ figures with the same story of Jesus that predate him historically by thousands of years ...

listverse.com...

Horus (12,500 years BC) - Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

reply to post by charlyv


Naive logic is axiomatic. This means logic alone is insufficient in deriving the truth. Therefore, any argument for (or against) a belief must be supported by empirical evidence.

Before I go any further, I will not tolerate any of this Post Modern "truth is subjective" crap. That is a conflation. Reality can be imagined to operate on three (3) levels. The first level is fundamental reality, which exists independently of an observer. No, modern quantum physicists does not postulate that consciousness is intrinsic to reality. It only appeared to be so to early physicists because conscious observation decomposes a single configuration state into several configuration states. But conscious observation was discovered to be only one of many means of decomposition, proving that interpretation false. However, mystics and gurus still cling to this fallacy out of motivated reasoning and confirmation bias.

The second level is "subjective" reality, which emerges from the domain of fundamental reality. Subjective reality is self-explanatory. The third level is "objective" reality. It constitutes what our subjective experiences seemingly have in common, since fundamental reality follows patterns. Objective reality emerges from the domain of subjective reality.

The third and second levels exist because our brains attempt to model fundamental reality based on evidence of patterns, since accurate models of reality confer survival value. "Truth" is simply a measure of how accurately these models describe fundamental reality. Truth is not subjective; it is our beliefs about the truth which are subjective. This idea is embodied in the phrase "The map is not the territory."

Originally posted by King Loki
...REM sleep

...astronauts training in centrifuges

... amazonian brew Ayahuasca

This is your science? This is the sum total of all those scientific journals, the thousands , you have read; is three commonly cited popular media refutations?

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

Originally posted by King Loki

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Just Wow TOO; I cant believe it myself either. I dont know the english alphabet or how to type yet I am able; never read a book in my life and that infuriates me, why I never bothered to EVEN learn to speak. I love science particularly Genetics BLOOD and DNA strands (my field of major interest). You should leave the 'crazy catholics' and other self righteous alone, they will all end up on a post and beam crucified just as Jesus was (AFTER theyve left their material bodies) but only for a short time, then they meet their higher selves in counsel, (you would want to be a fly on the wall here for the slapping about and screamfests). All that I know about Babtist Churches is they are not in the BUSINESS OF 'actually' BABTIZING physically (I know this personally, I have asked and was refused this ritual), apparently they dont know what it entails means or discribes.

edit on 18-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

You do know that Jesus did not exist and that the entire Jesus story was ripped off from more ancient religions some formed over 12,500 years ago, 10,500 years before Jesus was even said to exist ... dont believe me ? go read the story of Horus from Egypt.

Here ill make it easy for you ... here is 10 Christ figures with the same story of Jesus that predate him historically by thousands of years ...

listverse.com...

Horus (12,500 years BC) - Born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

edit on 18/8/13 by King Loki because: (no reason given)

I never said I believed in anything, as I am repulsed by ANY BELIEF SYSTEM. I am well aware of the borrowings from the Pagan to shore up Christian (greek term false) ideology. I have only a grief felt thoughtform for Yeshua Ben Joseph as he knew he was used, look at his last lament--"MY WOUNDS WILL BE KEPT OPEN BY THOSE WHOM DEFAME ME". I also know the truth of the being you call Jesus (and hes not happy).

reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic


All the questions are because you don't know how to debate. Kinda funny. Here is how that works:

So you ask a ton of questions to skirt having to argue a point? Then you ask more questions to try and make it seem like I have somehow contradicted myself? Then you ask more questions to try and make it seem like you have accomplished something?

Now on to real things, I have found a good balance between science and religion. I do not subscribe to an organized religion. I have not just read, but actively studied in about 14 different religions or sects of a type of religion. I was raised an Atheist and considered myself one until about 15 years ago. From my studies I have found that there are no ghosts of your dead loved ones. People who regularly see visions should see a neurologist or rid themselves of demonic influence.

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by King Loki
...REM sleep

...astronauts training in centrifuges

... amazonian brew Ayahuasca

This is your science? This is the sum total of all those scientific journals, the thousands

, you have read; is three commonly cited popular media refutations?

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

AGREED I dont think so as well, ITS all over the map and seems to be hanging from the edge of some kind of cliff, mental or stabbing out grasping at what, an unfullfilled ill-defined SOMETHING that exists between Science and Theology and incapable of explaining it (THE IDEA formulated), just a lot of pudding, jello mess left after a food fight.

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by King Loki
...REM sleep

...astronauts training in centrifuges

... amazonian brew Ayahuasca

This is your science? This is the sum total of all those scientific journals, the thousands

, you have read; is three commonly cited popular media refutations?

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

didn't i post many journals on this already .... im talking about things that people know because clearly none of you have read a journal ... so its the only thing you can relate to ... you cant be this stupid ??


can a teacher walk into a first year school room and start teaching quantum mechanics ... no .... how is this a hard concept to grasp

reply to post by sled735


You realize you didn't make a good argument there right? If I am educated in a field that completely disproves the field you are educated in...who is the educated one? Granted, again, my education is in Atmospheric Sciences. I can disprove what people think are UFO's all day and all night. Guess what? They will continue to believe what they want because to accept facts means they have been wrong all along.

Originally posted by raymundoko
reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic

 

All the questions are because you don't know how to debate. Kinda funny. Here is how that works:

So you ask a ton of questions to skirt having to argue a point? Then you ask more questions to try and make it seem like I have somehow contradicted myself? Then you ask more questions to try and make it seem like you have accomplished something?

I have not debated the way you are implying because I have not made a claim.

You are making a claim. I cited the weakness in your argument.

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by raymundoko
reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic

 

All the questions are because you don't know how to debate. Kinda funny. Here is how that works:

So you ask a ton of questions to skirt having to argue a point? Then you ask more questions to try and make it seem like I have somehow contradicted myself? Then you ask more questions to try and make it seem like you have accomplished something?

I have not debated the way you are implying because I have not made a claim.

You are making a claim. I cited the weakness in your argument.

Your entire argument is here say and crazy talk ... how can you argue with that amount of knowledge lol

you have forced me to talk to you like a child because you dont understand any science nor do you have any desire to read the correct science ... you're happy with your testimonials and liers ... which is a ridiculous stand point. Show me 1 scientific journal that supports anything you have said .... and dont skirt it like all your other answers ... link it to me

Originally posted by King Loki

didn't i post many journals on this already .... im talking about things that people know because clearly none of you have read a journal ... so its the only thing you can relate to ... you cant be this stupid ??

you have forced me to talk to you like a child because you dont understand any science nor do you have any desire to read the correct science ... you're happy with your testimonials and liers

You don't appear to grasp or relate the ability to summarize the essence of those journals. Furthermore, your writing does not appear to bear the discipline of a person holding a degree in science, humanities or the arts.

No, I have published, patented, reviewed, co-authored, provided refutations and read. I am just wondering if you really have.

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by King Loki

didn't i post many journals on this already .... im talking about things that people know because clearly none of you have read a journal ... so its the only thing you can relate to ... you cant be this stupid ??

You don't appear to grasp or relate the ability to summarize the essence of those journals. Furthermore, your writing does not appear to bear the discipline of a person holding a degree in science, humanities or the arts.

No, I have published, patented, reviewed, co-authored, provided refutations and read. I am just wondering if you really have.

yup... this is why I backed out of the argument...

He just tosses insults and makes claims to the extensive amount of knowledge he has on the subject, with nothing to back his claims

And im still waiting anything that proves anything...

Loki God of tricks indeed...

reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic


I'll link you my papers if you link me yours. If you did them in college or after they should be published. I've actually been peer reviewed...

It didn't turn out well for me though. I had to leave my field of science for questioning the status quo too often and getting tired of the crap.

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by King Loki

didn't i post many journals on this already .... im talking about things that people know because clearly none of you have read a journal ... so its the only thing you can relate to ... you cant be this stupid ??

You don't appear to grasp or relate the ability to summarize the essence of those journals. Furthermore, your writing does not appear to bear the discipline of a person holding a degree in science, humanities or the arts.

No, I have published, patented, reviewed, co-authored, provided refutations and read. I am just wondering if you really have.

Are you that naive that you think scientists constantly write scientifically ... that is bloody ridiculous mate ... do you talk the same way in a computer game that you would write an essay in ... no ... no one does.

Your grasp on what is actually real seems to be very thin and you dont seem to grasp many concepts.

I have to write scientifically all day mate, So i do not do it when I am at home .... just like no one else likes to do work while they are at home ... why do i have to explain simple things to you ... seriously

Scientists are real people too lol .. its just my job not my entire life ... or do you do your job 24 hours a day 7 days a week ?? whether you are at home or not ??

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by King Loki

didn't i post many journals on this already .... im talking about things that people know because clearly none of you have read a journal ... so its the only thing you can relate to ... you cant be this stupid ??

You don't appear to grasp or relate the ability to summarize the essence of those journals. Furthermore, your writing does not appear to bear the discipline of a person holding a degree in science, humanities or the arts.

No, I have published, patented, reviewed, co-authored, provided refutations and read. I am just wondering if you really have.

yup... this is why I backed out of the argument...

He just tosses insults and makes claims to the extensive amount of knowledge he has on the subject, with nothing to back his claims

And im still waiting anything that proves anything...

Loki God of tricks indeed...

you backed out because you have no actual information other then peoples lies and testimonials of crazy people haha.

You refuse to even look at the science ... i linked them and it should take you about 4-5 hours to read it all ... go read them and come back when you have some actual information.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by King Loki

didn't i post many journals on this already .... im talking about things that people know because clearly none of you have read a journal ... so its the only thing you can relate to ... you cant be this stupid ??

You don't appear to grasp or relate the ability to summarize the essence of those journals. Furthermore, your writing does not appear to bear the discipline of a person holding a degree in science, humanities or the arts.

No, I have published, patented, reviewed, co-authored, provided refutations and read. I am just wondering if you really have.

yup... this is why I backed out of the argument...
He just tosses insults and makes claims to the extensive amount of knowledge he has on the subject, with nothing to back his claims
And im still waiting anything that proves anything...
Loki God of tricks indeed...

There seems to be a huge disconnect between Kindalokey's mind, statements and justification: NONE EXISTING.. Very strange; as the responses are almost (seemingly) schizoid; the whole Babtist as potencial threat to the Scientist arguement was a WHAT are you speaking of exactly. If one percieved me as a thumper, they would be out of their skulls, or perhaps they are behind the scientific JAMA publication; or Christian Science Monitor deadline, they have something in common (science).

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by King Loki

didn't i post many journals on this already .... im talking about things that people know because clearly none of you have read a journal ... so its the only thing you can relate to ... you cant be this stupid ??

you have forced me to talk to you like a child because you dont understand any science nor do you have any desire to read the correct science ... you're happy with your testimonials and liers

You don't appear to grasp or relate the ability to summarize the essence of those journals. Furthermore, your writing does not appear to bear the discipline of a person holding a degree in science, humanities or the arts.

No, I have published, patented, reviewed, co-authored, provided refutations and read. I am just wondering if you really have.

edit on 18-8-2013 by TheEthicalSkeptic because: (no reason given)

Why are you asking me to summorise when I have linked entire journals for you to read ... I have no obligation to teach you anything for free ... read the journals.

Most intelligent people already know what im talking about here ... I should not have to baby you through publicly available knowledge that has been linked directly too you. this site say deny ignorance ... yet you proliferate it by refusing to read the science to educate yourself

reply to post by King Loki


Nope... I've been following along with your replies...

All you have is insults and claims... Everyone is wrong but you... everyone else is just crazy or a liar...

I don't waste my time with attitudes like that... sorry