If Bush likes Democracy why isnt the U.S.

Oxford definition:
DEMOCRACY, A Government elected by the whole of the people

The recent U.S. elections had the most amount of voters turn up to the poles in 30 odd years, However not the whole of the people have ever voted. Therefor it is not, and has never been a Democracy.

I posted this on another thread and initially got a harsh response. Until someone informed me it was a Representative Republic. This was good information.

I am not Anti U.S.

I have posted this thread as a request for more information �Deny Ignorance�

I live in a succesful Democracy and everybody that is of Voting age (18+) must vote, regardless of criminal history or any other constraints
If you expect the people to follow the law they must be allowed to choose the lawmakers

Mr Bush is on the World stage informing other countries that Democracy is great and that he lives in one of the world Democracies????? Huh

My questions are:
Why isnt he on the world stage pushing Republicanism
Why isnt he pushing for Democracy in the U.S.

Can anybody help me to understand

I see in the Media the President of Amerika constantly referred to as the leader of the free World.
If we are indeed living in the 'free World", shouldn't we be allowed to vote for our leader?
Being told he is our leader without having the choice to vote for said leader doesn't sound much like a free World to me.
Isn't he constantly harping on about spreading Democracy?
Isn't he?

There's plenty of information out there...Google "representative democracy" or "electoral college".

I'm not saying it's a great voting system - I'd prefer a "straight" popular vote - but it IS democratic.

People who don't vote are, in a sense, still registering their view (antipathy, for example...I personally didn't vote beacuse I didn't want either candidate to win). If democracy is about free choice, well then that includes the choice of whether or not to vote.

I wouldn't like to be forced to vote; sounds like the kind of thing that happened in the old Iraq...

Originally posted by Dan West
Oxford definition:
DEMOCRACY, A Government elected by the whole of the people

Mr Bush is on the World stage informing other countries that Democracy is great and that he lives in one of the world Democracies????? Huh

My questions are:
Why isnt he on the world stage pushing Republicanism
Why isnt he pushing for Democracy in the U.S.

Can anybody help me to understand

The U.S. is not a Democracy. It is a constitutionalized republic. When you hear some one from the U.S. government talk about "spreading democracy" they are talking spreading a PROCESS, not a form of government. It gets confusing I know, but the "democracy" spoken of is a process - not a form of government.

It is best understood by saying "it is the process by which a free people can govern themselves either directly (by popular vote - which would be A Pure Democracy or indirectly by representation which would be a Representative Democracy).

If you look at the U.S. it is a Republic of States - that's why it cannot be considered a Democracy. But when you get to the state level, you have a democracy in each state. It is the combining of these 50 democracies, empowered by the constitution that creates the constitutionalized republic of the United States of America that operates off democracy.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Valhall]

I wouldn't like to be forced to vote; sounds like the kind of thing that happened in the old Iraq...

....And in Australia

The U.S. is not a Democracy.

lol...we know...now you tell us
Some would suggest that Amerika has crossed over from being a Republic to being an Empire. Read in the paper the other day an Amerikan politician dude saying that 'now that Amerika is in Empire mode, the rest of the World are mere spectators whilst we Amerika are the actors. When we act, the World stops to analyse our actions, and just when they think they have understood our actions....we act again'.
Classic 40-second Boyd strategy
Rome wasn't built in a day, but it sure fell down around the Romans ears a lot faster.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Zero Point]

as posted by Zero Point
an Ameican politician dude saying that 'now that Amerika is in Empire mode, the rest of the World are mere spectators whilst we Amerika are the actors.

Must have been a 'defunct' Democrat?



seekerof

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Seekerof]

I live in Australia and we have states and everyone above 18 must vote
it is a democracy
I dont understand why a coutry like America would veil is self in the term Democracy as I stated previously I have been told it is a Representative republic.

If your point is the process then the Oxford Dictionary has it wrong.

This I think is misrepresentation of words and as for trasperancy mr bush prides himself on being concise.

Democracy does work and it is a fantastic institution. Voting can be anoying at times but whats a few minutes out of your life when so much is at stake. The vote counting is also simple.

The apathy of ones people to voice their opions is not a choice in democracy.

One person one vote

If all the people were discouraged enough to not vote then the people arnt being represented.
A would-be leader would just need to activate a particular cell that is in Apathy mode within its electorate to be elected.

Originally posted by Dan West
I live in Australia and we have states and everyone above 18 must vote
it is a democracy

What happens if you don't vote? Does it result in some type of fine or imprisonment?

It can result in both, however in saying this you can vote at any school and the whole thing only takes a couple of minutes, no large queues

I also need to say that no region or persons vote is worth more than another

Must have been a 'defunct' Democrat?

Actually he was a 'Repugnantcan'

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Zero Point]

Care to provide the link so it can be verified?



seekerof

sory to go back to the topic

If millions dont vote and some peoples vote are worth more than others then this is as far removed from democracy as one can get

In my country every adult voted and our leader is there because more than half of those people picked him

We have states
We have a constitution
We have representation
we are free

I still cant see the conection between the U.S. and democracy

Originally posted by Dan West
Mr Bush is on the World stage informing other countries that Democracy is great and that he lives in one of the world Democracies????? Huh

My questions are:
Why isnt he on the world stage pushing Republicanism
Why isnt he pushing for Democracy in the U.S.

Can anybody help me to understand

Well, after all look at who it is you're talking about. Most of the time Dubya is lucky if he gets through a short speech or even a simple catch phrase without screwing it up completely. With his ever growing list of Bushisms and butchery of the language, I honestly doubt he has a clear understanding of what Democracy or Republic means and is more than happy to just read what someone else writes for him.

Looking at the Definitions & Origins of the words themselves:
Republic - From Latin res publica, or "public affair", and suggests an ownership and control of the state by the population at large.
Democracy - From Greek demos meaning "the people" and kratein meaning "to rule" or "Rule by the People".

Democracy comes in two forms, that of Direct and Indirect. Direct being Individualized Power, or Truely a Majority Rule. Indirect being Centralized by Representation of the many by the Few.

Republic is usually described as a Representative Democracy which the people elect government officials who then make decisions on their behalf. Republics are also defined as the State with an Elected Head of State.

Now, as Valhall has used the term "Constitutional Republic" as the True Definition, I think you could also say that the term "Federal Republic" is also equally as True. Federal Union of the States by Constitution establishing a Republican style Government. In either case it is still not considered a "Democracy", by most anyway, which is more in line with your question. In fact I'd say Bush is spreading Bureaucracy and/or Illiteracy rather than Democracy!!

No dan you're not free. You are not free to choose not to vote.
Half of the people voted because half chose not to vote.
Democracy is voluntary.
You vote if you want to.

Care to provide the link so it can be verified?

link?...lol...not every bit of reading originates from the internet.
Does that make it any less valid?
But just so you don't think that I amuse myself by passing the time making up ficticious newspaper articles...I shall dig around for it.
That is if someone didn't run out of toilet paper and wipe their bum with it.
Do you doubt that a Republican would say such a thing?
And he said it with such a kok-sure swagger too.
Like he thought we would be impressed by it.
P.S I'm not in Amerika
but I sposed you guessed that anyway
Link...verified...lol...half the stuff on the internet is crapola anyway...yet you suggest that if it had a link it's verifiable
But don't hold your breath...I might get bored looking for it, I'm not very fanatical about feeling the need to prove myself to others....theres just so damn many of you.
< o )))) ><


[edit on 11-11-2004 by Zero Point]

thanx mojo that was informative and at the end. I didnt say that
mwm we are free, free to cop a fine
The liberties enjoyed in this country are second to none
I think it has a lot to do with being an Island,Continent, Nation
We share no borders
We have free health care and excellent social security
The government even gives us $7,500 towards buying our first home
even ocassionally free trains.

If we do vote its counted (Florida)

Hats off to Australia, I say!

What you've said reinforces my positive impression of the place.

Perhaps the US should adopt the Direct method; but it wouldn't have changed the outcome of this election.

Its fair
Its simple
It works
Come on down, we also have more beaches than any other country on earth with squeeky clean sand and the best sunsets
where I live average winter temp is 10-20 summer temp in the thirties a really hot day is low forties
Good beer drinking weather
Surfs up