The state of the world today is the church's fault.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by schadenfreude

 

The state of the world is not the church's fault, it's man's fault.

Greed has not prevailed over the church, for no matter how much greed has taken over the world, it doesn't change what Jesus Christ did, nor it's ability to save souls (even though you may be seeing more greed than souls being saved, it doesn't change the fact that souls are being saved every day in spite of it.)

Considering that the Bible told us that the world would come to it's end this way, there's nothing you can do to stop it. You can only keep doing that which you've been called to do and if you want to call out the unrighteous, fine, but you can't blame the church. We're all responsible for our own salvation, regardless of false prophets and fallen churches. Not all Christian churches and pastors are poor role models.

It's BOTH the Church AND Man's fault.... because it's man's church.

I'm not saying that all fellowshipping in Christ is bad.... certainly not, not at all,,, but the big churches were not formed to fellowship in Christ, they were made to control the masses. They are symbols and beacons of power,,, and not the power of Christ. They run banks, they attempt to spread from country to country to gain political control (see Catholic persecution in Asia, Europe and elsewhere)... The real reason the Great Schism happened and the Orthodox Church broke off from the Rest of the Roman Catholic church was that the pope thought he should have universal jurisdiction over the whole world.... and these are the freaking people responsible for the Inquisition! When it comes to torture, dark rituals and deeds, Roman Catholicism is unparalleled... I really do hope that it has toned it down, but when it comes to history... these things really can't be denied. One man thought he should live a lifetime dictating over the whole world... That is blasphemy. That is trying to take the throne of God Himself! No conglomeration has tried harder to FORCE a One World System (universal jurisdiction) based on a pack of lies as the Roman Catholic Church. Just this year, one of the oldest banks in Italy that had been started by the Church and was one of the founding banks of the United States had it's top executive panel overhauled for corruption. That's just a tiny late detail to show things falling apart, nothing major compared to what they've done in history. Last year was an interesting year for the church... people just don't know to what extent because most things about the church, even when they try to sort it out... they still keep it hidden for damage control. If it's not corruption covering it, it's damage control.

And it comes from people who are afraid to offend God... or offend people who believe in Catholicism and turn the world more topsy turvy (as IF... there's ALWAYS room for the truth)

People need to get over that at some point and stop being superstitious and so afraid that their souls are going to burn. That is spiritual insecurity and if people really wanted to be secure in spirit, they wouldn't bow to anyone who has taken the name of God for himself.They would stand up for what is right... and the church has few and far between examples of being right!

It's a NAME. Don't you remember in the end times in the bible?...The devil takes on the name of God? There is no part of the war and the greed that is destroying governments and shattering countries that does NOT go straight back to that church!

Praise God!

Do not praise man's false church.

If they want to keep wearing robes and worshiping a guy in a pointy hat... that's their thing but they should leave the rest of the world alone. I just hope they've really toned it down but if they have, it will be a historical first. If they get their stuff straight and tone it down, they could perhaps promote some peace for a change.... but you won't see me holding my breath.
I don't need to convince anyone else of my spiritual fortitude by sticking up for a false church because I can go into my quiet solitude and pray to God in the dark... as I am supposed to, that way I can focus on what he says to MY soul... because it's not about what any man on planet Earth thinks... It's between ME and GOD. What he says to you is between YOU and GOD. A direct prayer to God never meant to come through another person prone to sin.

He wants YOU to talk to HIM. He doesn't want you focusing on the building, focusing on the robes, focusing on the rituals, focusing on the chanting, focusing on the wine and crackers... He wants you to talk to HIM.

And i'm noticing more and more churches that are run by the illuminati even in places you wouldn't expect. For example, I am at a beach of the coast of NC - Emerald Isle and I have seen a couple churches and at least one facility crew van with triangles on their logo. This is also where they train Marines. Coincindence? Maybe. Who knows.

reply to post by wildtimes

This is perhaps the attitude I detest the most. "The Bible told us" - ?????? That is such a LAME scapegoat. There IS something we can do to "stop it." But many people don't WANT TO - for idiotic reasons like believing they will escape in "the rapture".

That's not how prophecy works. God doesn't give two or three possible outcomes, He just tells what will happen. Mostly it's to protect His children. No Christians died in 70 AD because of Christ's prophecy about Jerusalem. The Jews were spared and returned to Israel by King Cyrus because of a detailed prophecy. And Joseph saved grain during the years of bountiful harvests because he knew the famine was coming and it provided food for a nation.

He tells what will happen so that those who love Him and trust Him will be prepared. He doesn't say, this or that is possible, or not. No, He exists outside of the dimension of time and tells what will happen before it does.

Originally posted by schadenfreude

Originally posted by theRhenn
reply to post by schadenfreude

 

A "christian" countering his own religion? I dont think so. You've watered down the term quite a bit in your post.

A christian is more than someone who believes in Christ. It is someone taking up the cross and being CHRIST LIKE. That's hardly the case here.

You're taking scripture and arguing against it. How can you be a christian if you're calling the bible, the origin of your "faith" a lie?

That's like me saying "I'm not a racist, but all black people are criminals".

And I never said the bible is a lie, only our attitude towards what the bible SAYS.

"and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

(Greed) The world HAS prevailed against the church."

Unless I'm not following what you're trying to say.. You're taking scripture and then speaking against it in this manner. You also used "hypocrisy" but at the same time, fall into it yourself.

There are defining differences in adultery between married and unmarried couples. Various sects argue the definition. I hold adultery as married couples cheeting, or a single man vs a married woman, or when any one of the group discussed is married. Lusting after a married person is also adultery because the thought is just as sinful as the act.

Saying homosexuality is ok because we commit adultery isn't justifiable. Not all commit adultery either. I'm VERY much against it. I make a concious effort to stay clear of it. So.. since I dont commit adultery, am I a hypocrite for saying gay marriage is wrong? Where I stand, I would say that any christian not washing their hands of anything homosexual is wrong. I'm not saying that they arn't people also, and I dont suggest turning our backs on them, the person, but we should turn our backs and stand against the act and what it stands for. If that person continues... at what point do you turn away from a thief who steals, or a murderer who murders? Is it the same? Some would say "you cant compare the two.. or even to pedophilia"... Dont forget.. the act is an abomination by christian terms.

Now... Another point on hypocrisy... When is it ok to stone a person today? The bible says there are situations where you're supposed to. Even your own children. You cant bring up one point and forget the rest..

THATS what pains me. Though I agree, we cant pick and choose... it's all or nothing. It's just unfortunate that much of it is illegal by man's law.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Yes, I know how prophecy works. I also know how to write a fiction book, and a sequel, with all the necessary "clues" in place in volume 1 that "lead to" the outcomes in volume 2.

That's why I can't accept the Bible as "true" prophecy. Oh well. Must be a mental illness, probably genetic, not my fault. Have you heard of ectoplasma? Some quite fascinating phenomena have been recorded with those in the "afterlife" (a realm of thought) reaching through to talk to the physically living....

I'm still looking into 'inspired' writings and channelings - but not at all convinced that the Bible is 'authentically' inspired.

Originally posted by Krazysh0t

Originally posted by schadenfreude
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

When Christians were acting Christ-like, they brought Rome to it's knees. When they went WILLINGLY to the lions, ppl jumped out of their seats when they saw it AND JOINED THE CHRISTIANS. iirc, it was 7 romans, for every one christian martyred.

Christianity today no longer has that influence, least in America. But to deny that influence ever happened, well that's just disingenuous, don't you think?

edit on 8-8-2013 by schadenfreude because: (no reason given)

I'm gong to deny it because I don't see a source on any of it. Considering that executions in ancient Rome were considered a public spectacle I find your claims rather dubious. In fact of all the times I've heard mention of Christian persecution, this is the first time I've heard mention of Romans sacrificing themselves along with the Christians as a means of protest. This source even goes on to mention how boring it was for the crowd to watch.

Roman executions typically were considered a form of public spectacle. When coinciding with a game day, they usually took place during the midday break between the morning animal hunts and the afternoon gladiator matches. A favored method was exposing an unarmed criminal to lions or bears. Since it’s pretty clear that Christians were at times sentenced to death by beast (see 1 and 2 above), one may surmise that some of them met their end via lion in front of a Colosseum crowd, but we have no sure knowledge of this. The entertainment value of executions was apparently low due to their sheer number — many people found them boring, either leaving for lunch or sticking around and writing letters to friends about the tedium.

www.straightdope.com...

Sadly, it would appear that you are correct. Either I read what I wrote wrong, or (more likely) I believed what what someone told me to be true, and it turns out they were completely full of it. I spent all day yesterday looking up a source for you, and couldn't find one supporting what I said. Having said that, I retract that statement, and do apologize to you for saying something (I thought) was true.

My apologies.

Originally posted by StoutBroux

Originally posted by schadenfreude
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I guess there's lots of people going to hell. But I have questions about this verse:

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

There's too many contradictions in the bible. We are told in Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man.....

Absolutely there are too many contradictions because there are many that follow it to the letter..which the scriptures themselves says kills...and there is the "dichotomy not contradiction.The scriptures are not a rule book or a guideline.It is a testimony of one thing only.... God is salvation.Yahoshua those that many call "Jesus".

The Truth is right in front of them and they can't see it.The scriptures are not the "living word" of God... Yahoshua is.The words(the letters of the law) are not alive they are dead ..they kill.The religious have "ate" them and are dead themselves and now beat others over the head with them to kill them.No one is "saved" by believing a book or doctrines.No one is saved by "ANYTHING" they do.No one seeks after God... NO ONE....could it be any more obvious all have gone astray and completely missed the mark.Especially the religious that believe by some act of pious "faith" they are saved.

That is not what the scriptures and common sense say at all..."By GRACE you are[being] SAVED..through faith this is NOT of yourself it is a gift of GOD "

There are multiples scriptures that say the same thing.Common sense says no one can lift themselves up by their own bootlaces they surely can't save themselves AT ALL.It is God doing it 100% start to finish the author and FINISHER.They can deceive themselves into believing that James says the opposite but they are wrong.They can deceive themselves Paul qualified people that would "go to heaven" or hell.. and he said no such thing it is BS extrapolation of the carnal religious mind.

Christianity or any religion has not made this world one up quark better.No one is good..NOT ONE!It's all religious BS.Folks puffing themselves up with doctrines of men they are clueless to what they even mean or what Yahoshua or the apostles even said and did.They worship a false God of their own making and image that is why God fails.That is the only God the "world" sees"....the multitude of failures as extremely flawed humans beings claiming "superiority because they said a ten second prayer and believe a doctrine then judge people to hell by the billions for not believing a doctrine of men.

The only defense they have is..."the bible says ''blah blah blah.."when they are clueless to what it says and immensely more importantly what God says.Are the religious accountable for the fracked up world..HELL yeh they are the majority.Running around smacking people in the head with their "righteous bible" unrighteously dividing the LIVING word of God making it of no worth with their false doctrines of men and claiming it is of God!! .

Unfortunately that is exactly how it is.They can talk of the end times and the heathen God hates but they have it all wrong.Their mirror is dark.it is they that walk down the wide path of destruction proclaiming Lord Lord didn't we do GREAT works in YOUR name.Fortunately for them God is merciful and just and sentences no one to eternal punishment of hell or that would be their sentence for their blasphemy.It is the religious that God has caused a strong delusion that they would believe the lie of RELIGION.They worship religion not God.They despise God.They want no part of him.Nothing has changed in millenniums... except it has got worse.The religious are more religious than ever and they are accountable for the condition of the world...and yes ...they will be held accountable for it.

reply to post by Rex282

Absolutely there are too many contradictions because there are many that follow it to the letter..which the scriptures themselves says kills...and there is the "dichotomy not contradiction.The scriptures are not a rule book or a guideline.It is a testimony of one thing only.... God is salvation.Yahoshua those that many call "Jesus".

The Truth is right in front of them and they can't see it.The scriptures are not the "living word" of God... Yahoshua is.The words(the letters of the law) are not alive they are dead .

Actually, there was nothing contradictory regarding the verses that Stoutboux posted. Those verses simply mean that no one was going to be saved by works or by following the old Mosaic laws that were laid out in the Old Testament. That's what the "letters of the law" were referring to in the Bible. It has nothing to do with the words of the Bible itself. How or what one ate, drank, washed their hands, etc. wasn't going to get them into heaven. Only FAITH would. FAITH is the gift that God gives us freely through his grace.

Originally posted by schadenfreude

Originally posted by Krazysh0t

Originally posted by schadenfreude
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

When Christians were acting Christ-like, they brought Rome to it's knees. When they went WILLINGLY to the lions, ppl jumped out of their seats when they saw it AND JOINED THE CHRISTIANS. iirc, it was 7 romans, for every one christian martyred.

Christianity today no longer has that influence, least in America. But to deny that influence ever happened, well that's just disingenuous, don't you think?

edit on 8-8-2013 by schadenfreude because: (no reason given)

I'm gong to deny it because I don't see a source on any of it. Considering that executions in ancient Rome were considered a public spectacle I find your claims rather dubious. In fact of all the times I've heard mention of Christian persecution, this is the first time I've heard mention of Romans sacrificing themselves along with the Christians as a means of protest. This source even goes on to mention how boring it was for the crowd to watch.

Roman executions typically were considered a form of public spectacle. When coinciding with a game day, they usually took place during the midday break between the morning animal hunts and the afternoon gladiator matches. A favored method was exposing an unarmed criminal to lions or bears. Since it’s pretty clear that Christians were at times sentenced to death by beast (see 1 and 2 above), one may surmise that some of them met their end via lion in front of a Colosseum crowd, but we have no sure knowledge of this. The entertainment value of executions was apparently low due to their sheer number — many people found them boring, either leaving for lunch or sticking around and writing letters to friends about the tedium.

www.straightdope.com...

Sadly, it would appear that you are correct. Either I read what I wrote wrong, or (more likely) I believed what what someone told me to be true, and it turns out they were completely full of it. I spent all day yesterday looking up a source for you, and couldn't find one supporting what I said. Having said that, I retract that statement, and do apologize to you for saying something (I thought) was true.

My apologies.

How refreshing. Rarely have I seen someone admit they were wrong and post a retraction here on ATS. You are more believable due to the fact in my book. Good luck on your quest for a happy non depressed life and thanks for the honesty!

CJ

Actually it is God's time tables fault. The bible says that as in the days of Noha so shall the days be upon the return of the Son of God. So this whole world going to hell in a hand basket is God's time line at work.