Why is Obama Abandoning Obamacare?

reply to post by jdub297


Did you notice that generally when the president is speaking about problems with the law he will refer to it as the ACA, but when touting things he thinks people will like he calls it Obamacare?

What a hack this dude is.

Originally posted by pirhanna
reply to post by jdub297

 

My take from the beginning was that it was never intended to actually be implemented (documented on this site somewhere), and this may be why the unconstitutional provision of requiring an individual to buy healthcare was made a centerpiece of the legislation, knowing that it would kill the bill after the fact. I still don't fully understand what the bill does, but it appears to me to be corporatized healthcare. He promised socialized healthcare, and this was the bait and switch.

Obama is the ultimate bait and switch president. On basically everything. He single handedly destroyed the American progressive movement. What he has done has nothing to do with real progressive values. Everything he has done has been about corporatism (also known as fascism, by it's strict definition - Mussolini)

edit on 7-8-2013 by pirhanna because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-8-2013 by pirhanna because: (no reason given)

Correct, as have many Conservatives point end out this was designed to be a massive failure from the start because the Democrats really wanted a single-payer system. When this train wreck derails they will then say "See, we tried the free-market approach and that just won't work, we'll have to repeal and replace this system with a single-payer format."

Suckers.

reply to post by benrl


Well now, I think that's a whole lot to consider and a whole lot of good points to make in general terms. However, on a thread about Obamacare, it really is his baby to see grow like Damien in The Omen. It isn't disappointing so far. This failure doesn't get spread out by saying it's everyone's fault so it's no one's fault in the end. Not this one. It was real specific to who pushed it, directed it and claimed credit for it.

Kinda like the Iraq War II. One could at least say both sides voted in measurable numbers from both Houses and Parties to make that one happen but it's disingenuous. It always will be. That one was Bush's war from the start and the way he made a War cabinet from day 1? I think Afghanistan actually got in his way until he found ways to make one work into the other.

The point is...Every President does own a few things real directly. This one is Obama's, and always will be for better or worse. I'm sorry it's not much better actually. After all, I have to live with it like everyone else. Fail here isn't something to be happy about.

reply to post by benrl

The president doesn't act in a vacuum, its silly to place the blame for anything solely at his feet.

Point noted, because you're correct. There were hundreds of Democrats in Congress who passed this monstrocity.

Sadly, we can't hold many of them accountable because they were booted out on their ass in 2010.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by benrl

 

Well now, I think that's a whole lot to consider and a whole lot of good points to make in general terms. However, on a thread about Obamacare, it really is his baby to see grow like Damien in The Omen. It isn't disappointing so far. This failure doesn't get spread out by saying it's everyone's fault so it's no one's fault in the end. Not this one. It was real specific to who pushed it, directed it and claimed credit for it.

Kinda like the Iraq War II. One could at least say both sides voted in measurable numbers from both Houses and Parties to make that one happen but it's disingenuous. It always will be. That one was Bush's war from the start and the way he made a War cabinet from day 1? I think Afghanistan actually got in his way until he found ways to make one work into the other.

The point is...Every President does own a few things real directly. This one is Obama's, and always will be for better or worse. I'm sorry it's not much better actually. After all, I have to live with it like everyone else. Fail here isn't something to be happy about.

True, each president does, Like Regan breaking the back of the Flight controller union in favor of the Airlines, each president does something to call their own. Obama has so much to hide from, guess what he came up with.

And in an OP asking why Obamacare is such an Abortion, it is my position that it is exactly what they need it to be.

A big flaming turd that distracts us from the real agenda and problem.

Indefinite detention,
Drone Program,
Economy in flames,
PRISM.

What big flaming turd is still serving as a distraction from the eroding of our rights?

Obamacare.

ETA: Switching avatar to Alien Hunter Kennedy as he was probably the last real Elected President we ever had.

reply to post by benrl


Well, actually, I thought the lock out for the walk out was one of his better moves. He gave them a chance to come back too. They said no and called his bluff. Ronnie Ray-Gun didn't bluff and pulled the trigger on them. All of them. It was a long time before a Union tried to disrupt public safety related operations of any large scale again too.

I blame him and give him just about full credit for the dismantling of the once half way decent mental health system the U.S. had. Now it's see 'em, dope 'em, "treat" 'em and street 'em. When they come back? Rinse, Repeat and bill insurance or State, whichever pays. That was Reagan's dubious legacy.

Obama went the other way for extreme to over regulation vs. deregulation with similar dismal outcomes from entirely different causes. I suppose it shows extremes to either side end poorly and we're a nation best ruled in moderation to most things.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by benrl

 

Well, actually, I thought the lock out for the walk out was one of his better moves. He gave them a chance to come back too. They said no and called his bluff. Ronnie Ray-Gun didn't bluff and pulled the trigger on them. All of them. It was a long time before a Union tried to disrupt public safety related operations of any large scale again too.

I blame him and give him just about full credit for the dismantling of the once half way decent mental health system the U.S. had. Now it's see 'em, dope 'em, "treat" 'em and street 'em. When they come back? Rinse, Repeat and bill insurance or State, whichever pays. That was Reagan's dubious legacy.

Obama went the other way for extreme to over regulation vs. deregulation with similar dismal outcomes from entirely different causes. I suppose it shows extremes to either side end poorly and we're a nation best ruled in moderation to most things.

And doesn't the political maneuvering and high drama of Supreme Court Decision just give you so much to fight over and argue about.

Political theater at its finest doing exactly what its supposed to.

reply to post by benrl


The Supreme Court Decision was the best thing we could have gotten. Obama saw it as some big victory but it simply said their mandate could stand as a tax. It ALSO said the states could say no and Washington couldn't retaliate by reducing funding in other ways, which is ultimately the only power they ever DO have over states. It was so under reported at the time, you'd think it wasn't part of it at all but it's the basis for my state literally outlawing the ACA by way of outlawing creation OR cooperation with any exchanges of any kind.

I'm just glad that Obamacare is DONE. relief relief relief!

Originally posted by sarra1833
I'm just glad that Obamacare is DONE. relief relief relief!

Oh it's certainly not "DONE", it hasn't even really been implemented yet.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by benrl

 

The Supreme Court Decision was the best thing we could have gotten. Obama saw it as some big victory but it simply said their mandate could stand as a tax. It ALSO said the states could say no and Washington couldn't retaliate by reducing funding in other ways, which is ultimately the only power they ever DO have over states. It was so under reported at the time, you'd think it wasn't part of it at all but it's the basis for my state literally outlawing the ACA by way of outlawing creation OR cooperation with any exchanges of any kind.

Which is illegal Constitutionally. The administration said over and over that it was not a tax, then when arguing before the SCOTUS they did a flip-flop and began calling it a tax.

Here is the problem, all legislation dealing with taxes must originate in the House, not the Senate. This has been a hose job from day one. And in John Roberts absurd opinion he spent the first 15 pages arguing that the ACA wasn't a tax, then on page 16 he began arguing that it was in fact a tax.

Originally posted by benrl
If your a politician You are a crook, its the system we have allowed to happen, as long as people focus on the play acting theater they pull NOTHING will change.

We need Lobbying reform, we Need Campaign Finance reform, WE need a constitutional amendment to repeal citizens united, WE Need stricter term limits for every office.

Why aren't we doing any of that? Because the sheep keep bleating about the Puppet in Chief, that's why.

This times 1000! I wish I could give you more stars. The president can only do so much. While this particular president basically can tell Congress what to do, if we were to implement these changes it would even go so far as to limit the president's power too. He'd have to work harder to pocket congress in his pocket.

But the biggest change we need to make to how government works is to limit corporations' ability to influence the government. As it stand they have a much louder voice to get their way over the massively divided public.

Originally posted by benrl
I love how its all Obamas fault.

He's the guy who pushed Obamacare. OF COURSE he's at fault for it.
It wouldn't have happened without him pushing desperately for it.
He owns it. It's his 'legacy' ...

Just an aside to clear some of the propaganda based misinformation on this issue... In the year 2000 the United States did not, despite what people tend to believe, come in as having the best medical care in the world. In fact the US was not even in the top ten.

The US was number 37.

Actual list here.

The US was nestled between Costa Rica ( 36 ) and Slovenia ( 38 ).

This fact informs just how mired in rhetoric the entire healthcare issue is in the US. It is impossible to think that people might make informed decisions about this issue... because they are not informed about it at all.

Currently I have quite a few friends, US citizens, who travel to Central and South America for medical procedures and purchase their prescriptions from foreign pharmacies. They outsource their medical care to other countries to get the best deal. In one case a person went to Mexico for surgery because not only was it cheaper to pay 100% there, as opposed to just the insurance deductible here... but the actual procedure in Mexico was of a higher quality and more modern than the insurance was willing to pay for here.

Oh... and here it was considered outpatient surgery with several weeks of "at home" recovery. In Mexico he stayed in the hospital for 4 days and was released 100% cleared to return to work, already healed.

This is a long aside to discuss the issues that the ACA wars have clouded. We are fighting tooth and nail to get back a system that was 37th in the world, overall ( 15th in actual quality ), but 2nd highest in cost.

Given this, it causes my draw to actually drop every time I see people fighting to keep the status quo here. The status quo sucked.

reply to post by Hefficide


So we have to wreck the current healthcare system to get better?

That's like taking a shotgun and blowing off one's toes because they have a couple corns.

Brilliant.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


The rulings of the Supreme Court are unconstitutional? Who would it be that determines that, since the Supreme Court is, quite literally, charged with determining what is and isn't Constitutional in this nation, under our system?

I must have misread you on that.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The rulings of the Supreme Court are unconstitutional? Who would it be that determines that, since the Supreme Court is, quite literally, charged with determining what is and isn't Constitutional in this nation, under our system?

I must have misread you on that.

Read "Men in Black". The SCOTUS has a long history of ruling against the Constitution. Their job is to interpret it, not define it. If the admin's lawyers argued for the ACA as a tax the justices should have immediately struck down the law because according to the Constitution all tax bills must originate in the House. The ACA originated in the Senate. The "illegal" comment I made was their ruling that it could "stand as a tax". Taxes must originate in the House.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It's a question of terms I find humorous. There is one body of power in our system designated with the sole duty of interpreting the Constitution and determining as the final word, what is and isn't Constitutional.

If they are unconstitutional, then again, please tell me the authority ABOVE them who makes that legal determination? ....or is it our personal opinions because we really don't like how the court ruled on something? Plenty of anti-gunners thought McDonald and Heller were bad rulings. VERY bad to some of them...while I think they were among the best in several generations.

I hate the Imminent Domain ruling with a passion..while others praise it. Same with Citizens United. Until the Unions are considered equal to Corps for not being "individual people"? Then muzzling one while the other just takes over wholesale is wrong. Good ruling on that one...MANY others hate it with a passion that vibrates.

Constitutional isn't our opinion, feeling or what we kinda think it ought to be. It's what the document says, then, how ONE court interprets that. When they say something is or isn't Constitutional?n It's simply not debatable outside our OPINION. The legality of the matter IS settled. That is their entire mission in life....for life terms.

Originally posted by benrl

Neo, you really are one of my favorite posters, I just think at times you focus far to much on a tree in a forest of problems.

Well this particular trees roots are starting to gunk up the plumbing in this entire country. Time to cut it down, I'll say.