Nicola Tesla. Stifled Hero.

reply to post by Phage


Got it.

You choose willful ignorance regarding what exactly eugenics means in the 21st century.

reply to post by QuantriQueptidez

No.
I choose not to redefine an established term in order to create the impression that two different things are the same thing.

reply to post by Phage


Tesla seems to be everyone`s favorite mad scientist. I have know for a long time that Tesla was a secret loon barking at the moon in his free time. He was a very misunderstood man which is most likely why he is very popular among ATS members.

From the information OP offers, it appears Tesla had a problem with genetic variety and obesity. I could be a reactionary and fly off the handle or depend on talking points which have been long established, but I think I will go down a different road this time.

The idea of creating a better mankind by way of genetics is not a bad one in and of itself. The problem is when people who are inclined to twist science for their own racist agenda. Sadly, eugenics clearly is racist in nature and scope. Yet, the idea is not all that bad. Now, no one should have their ability to reproduce taken from them as a means to resolve social contradiction. No one wants to return to the days of American eugenics clinics or the Nazi idea of a Supreme race.
Yet, we can build a better mankind though genetics. I have been research which links certain mental and physical ills are being directly linked to genetics. We should have little problem with using genetic science to rid society of such ills. Before I child is born, we could have the ability to remove those DNA strains which are the cause of those mental and physical problems within the human genetic code; I see little fault in that.

A dislike of fat people...while it is totally out of line to treat fat people with a lack of basic human respect, being fat should not be considered as `normal` or good for society as a whole. I am fully aware of the arguments what being fat is a `Shogani(cannot be helped)` situation but it is clear that the only way to become obese is by eating too much. When a person makes bad health choices becoming obese will be a result of such choices. Being obese does decrease a person`s ability to be productive; that is a fact. Yet, being obese does not decrease anyone`s value as a human being. Yet, when being obese becomes acceptable we end up with the kind of situation America currently has; a nation of fat spoiled people who cannot even take a shower without help. There is nothing good about having a nation of obese people.

Funny thing is Tesla & I were born on precisely the same piece of land Even though it was called different in his time. He was a shameless wife beater too.

Because eugenics was the talk of the town in his days he probably did dream of inventing some 'cool' gadget to efficiently solve that issue...but he was a mad scientist, with a chaotic mind like most of them. I believe he had an endless amount of ideas, not necessarily connected to one another. Eugenics was just one part of his thought process and therefore i am not judging his whole persona or every invention based just on eugenics.

Last but not least, the 'silly aether' he was talking about is called dark matter&energy nowadays. Surely you of all people should not make fun of science ey?

So I've spent the better part of the last decade gathering anything and everything I could on Tesla. Indeed he had his quirks about him. The thing that must be realized is that not only was he on a different page with the world he lived in, he was on a different plane. As a child he broke his arm because he jumped off the roof of a barn. He did this because he discovered that deep heavy breathes gave him a weightless feeling which he interpreted as him having the ability to fly. Now everyone will say that children do the darnedest things, but not one would interpret a feeling of lightheaded dizziness as the ability to fly. He saw things so differently which is why his mind was able to grasp the seemingly unnatural processes of magnets and their fields and how they interact with this thing we call reality. Call him a mad scientist, he may have been the greatest mind to ever grace this planet in it's history.

Say what you will about the man, his mind and his abilities go unmatched to this day. With all that I've read and discovered about him in his life, he had clarity of thought like no other person. I find it almost ironic that someone would question the mind that gave us our modern way of living. And please do understand that if you don't agree with this modern way we live, to not blame the man that gave us all these great things, blame the powers that manipulated his gifts for their own gains.

Originally posted by Exitt
He was a shameless wife beater too.

Huh? The guy was never married and remained celibate his entire life. What are you talking about?

Originally posted by asar8978
I find it almost ironic that someone would question the mind that gave us our modern way of living.

This comment is almost as bad as they one above I quoted.

Telsa was brilliant, however he is in no way soley responsible for our 'modern way of living'. Did he achieve much in his time? Yes. Would others have had made the same innovations if he did not exist? Most likely, as there were other engineers working on similar projects as his (Alternating Current, AC Motors, etc.).

reply to post by asar8978

Say what you will about the man, his mind and his abilities go unmatched to this day.

How much do you know about Galileo, Newton, and Einstein? You might find that their abilities went quite beyond those of Tesla. You might find that their contributions to science and our world far outstrip those of Tesla.

Tesla was a very good engineer, inventor, and innovator. No need to make more of him than that.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

You are right. I don't know why i wrote that.

Originally posted by Phage
The work of Nicola Tesla is often presented on ATS. The man is usually characterized as a stifled genius who's inventions would have set mankind free of the bonds of corporate and government greed and evil.

There is no doubt that he was a very talented man. While his grasp of more advanced science was often wacky (a firm believer in "ether"), his use of existing science did allow him to produce some ingenious inventions. It is true that our dependence upon electricity has much to do with his work.


But was Tesla really working for the good of all mankind? Maybe not. His writing seems to indicate something else. Here is a statement from the man himself:

The only method compatible with our notions of civilization and the race is to prevent the breeding of the unfit by sterilization and the deliberate guidance of the mating instinct, Several European countries and a number of states of the American Union sterilize the criminal and the insane. This is not sufficient.

www.pbs.org...
Those European countries he was taking about were those like Nazi Germany. Our hero was a eugenicist, in favor of selecting who should should be allowed to have children and who should not. For him "mankind" was a limited set of humans.

After reading this article I couldn't help but to see Tesla reminiscent of The BORG

Especially after comments like:

"The year 2100 will see eugenics universally established. In past ages, the law governing the survival of the fittest roughly weeded out the less desirable strains. Then man's new sense of pity began to interfere with the ruthless workings of nature. As a result, we continue to keep alive and to breed the unfit.

The only method compatible with our notions of civilization and the race is to prevent the breeding of the unfit by sterilization and the deliberate guidance of the mating instinct, Several European countries and a number of states of the American Union sterilize the criminal and the insane. This is not sufficient."

And...

"At present we suffer from the derangement of our civilization because we have not yet completely adjusted ourselves to the machine age. The solution of our problems does not lie in destroying but in mastering the machine. Innumerable activities still performed by human hands today will be performed by automatons. At this very moment scientists working in the laboratories of American universities are attempting to create what has been described as a "thinking machine."

I anticipated this development. I actually constructed "robots." Today the robot is an accepted fact, but the principle has not been pushed far enough. In the twenty-first century the robot will take the place which slave labor occupied in ancient civilization."

I understand how he want's to insure the continuity of the human race by selective breeding but HEY! Let people volunteer to join his cult of continuity. He's thinking without a heart. He's thinking scientifically. Tesla seemed to insinuate that "pity" is a human weakness and that we must overcome it to survive. That sounds like the BORG

Having compassion for others is part of being human.

reply to post by Phage


You bring up an interesting question.
I am going to say maybe he saw the flaw in human condition and where it was heading.

natrual selection , the survival of the fittest, breeds the best and perfect humans with mental and body.

If I was going to paint a house I'd first scrap off all the "BAD" paint. Maybe all the paint and start new.
Maybe he saw a well oiled working machine (humans) in the far future, but before that would ever happen you have to have a completely healthy population removed of defects.
and then maybe that perfect population of humans could have the tech to cure anything like diabetes for example.
just a though.

reply to post by Phage

I don't consider animals to be human.

Of course you don't. This is where you draw your arbitrary line. People like me, who don't want to meat and believe it is morally wrong to exploit animals for our benefits, we draw the arbitrary line elsewhere.

But you are right, animals are not humans.


It's ironic that you don't seem realise the striking similarity between the rationale of the old eugenicists and modern geneticists. Maybe if you substitute 'unfit' for 'imperfect' the relation becomes more apparent to you.

"Nature is imperfect, we have to enhance it, at its most fundamental level."

Sure, you don't approve of using force to get people to comply, but you don't seem to have problem with it to call critics 'anti-progress' or 'technologically backwards'. Someone said: "the use of force has many guises".

Tesla the Visionary seems to have been driven by his desire to improve human society. Tesla the man of his time was able to rationalise moral corruption, and Tesla the mentally and emotionally unstable did not realise that.


How do you rationalise your support for biotech companies that are mainly in the business to make as much profit as possible? The benefits outweigh the risks? The needs/desires of the many outweigh the moral objections of the few?

reply to post by talklikeapirat

How do you rationalise your support for biotech companies that are mainly in the business to make as much profit as possible?

I have no problem with businesses maximizing their profits. I strive for the same in my line of work.

The benefits outweigh the risks?

Perhaps if you could have been more specific I could provide an answer but it is off topic so don't bother asking again.

While I don't necessarily agree with eugenics, population control is definitely something human civilization needs to think about. Since medicine became as efficient and affordable as it is now, population has gotten out of control. Phage, do you suggest we stick our heads into the sand and wait for the world to tear itself apart through over population and over consumption of finite and fragile amount of resources? If anything, Tesla is a visionary for, a century ago, thinking about possible solutions to the problem that is becoming more and more prevalent today.

reply to post by frozenspark

Phage, do you suggest we stick our heads into the sand and wait for the world to tear itself apart through over population and over consumption of finite and fragile amount of resources?

No.

reply to post by Phage


Then what is your answer to exploding population control?

reply to post by frozenspark

Voluntary birth control.

Originally posted by frozenspark
reply to post by Phage

 

Then what is your answer to exploding population control?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by frozenspark

 

Voluntary birth control.

zing!

don't forget homosexuality and, *ahem*, erectile dysfunction xD

Thanks for the tread Phage

Tesla was just a normal flawed human who did some good, provided some advancements and fell down in the sense of how the future judged him.

True blue and wonderful heroes are rare unfortunately, more often they have mighty character flaws.

Tesla was likely responding in his own vernacular to the age old problem of social decay.
E.G. the Fall of the Aztec empire in Mexico, Fall of Rome etc...
He may have been influenced by the German philosopher Nietzsche who early on in the 19th century saw mass culture as central to modern social reproduction processes and especially to what he saw as the distinctive features of modern societies: massification and the eradication of individuality, creating herd societies and mediocrity.

Brutally honest but not as popular as the transparent "Free Will" solutions played out later in the 20th century.

Stifled? probably not by most of the ATS think tank.