Whatever you believe is true!

reply to post by the sloth


Who says I am not in Africa showing these people the way?

reply to post by akushla99


I could easily send you my phone number, or set up a meeting with you to take samples of my blood or muscle tissue prove irrefutably that I wasn't a bot. What would be the theoretical framework for proving God's existence? Furthermore, My previous point wasn't that those groups weren't completely convinced in their convictions; It was to clarify that just because someone has a belief they hold personally true in their mind doesn't mean anyone else should be obligated to tolerate it. On the contrary, we as a human race should aspire to hold as many universal and objective truths as possible. That's what this site is about. Debunking nonsense in pursuit of knowledge and truth. 1+1=2. Period. The moment we start saying "Harry says 1+1=5. Just let him think what he wants", is when we as race begin to deteriorate.

reply to post by jhill76

You can't show a dead child the way. The child is dead. It can't learn anything from starving to death. That was an incredibly asinine thing to write. You're not even worth my time.

Originally posted by the sloth
reply to post by jhill76

 

You can't show a dead child the way. The child is dead. It can't learn anything from starving to death. That was an incredibly asinine thing to write. You're not even worth my time.

You can show the people there how to help others, so the child does not die.

The point was, do not assume what one is doing because of what others do everyday that you assume share the same beliefs.

Originally posted by the sloth
reply to post by akushla99

 

I could easily send you my phone number, or set up a meeting with you to take samples of my blood or muscle tissue prove irrefutably that I wasn't a bot. What would be the theoretical framework for proving God's existence? Furthermore, My previous point wasn't that those groups weren't completely convinced in their convictions; It was to clarify that just someone has a belief they hold personally true in their mind doesn't mean anyone else should be obligated to tolerate it. On the contrary, we as a human race should aspire to hold as many universal and objective truths as possible. That's what this site is about. Debunking nonsense in pursuit of knowledge and truth. 1+1=2. Period. The moment we start saying "Harry says 1+1=5. Just let him think what he wants", is when we as race begin to deteriorate.

Good question...what Would be the theoretical framework? (considering it is only theoretical)

'convinced of thier convictions' was the spirit of the OP...

You're quite welcome to take the door if you find your 'tolerance' compromised...bad day? Smile
Do you 'tolerate' schizophrenics? Do you 'tolerate' people with depression? Do you 'tolerate' anorexics? Do you 'tolerate' people who cannot see the color red (but you insist you can see it)? Democratised reality streams for dummies. You could write a book, and tell us how things are. I'd 'tolerate' that...

1+1=5...quintuplets!

'Debunking nonsense'...your call, of course

Å99

reply to post by the sloth


Hello the sloth.

In this reality there is both objective truth and relative-subjective truth.

We are communicating through the Internet. This is an objective truth.

What is your relationship, experiences, understandings, opinions, and feelings about the Internet? This is a relative-subjective truth.


May Peace be with you.

reply to post by Sahabi


Hi Sahabi. What a pleasant question. I love the internet. One can learn anything here: physics, philosophy, world history, current events, geography, foreign languages, foreign customs, musical theory and techniques ect. All for free. The beauty of this creation is almost breathtaking if you stop and ponder it. THIS RIGHT HERE is the start of mankind's next evolutionary jump. There's so much factual information here waiting to be discovered by those curious enough to look. Thats why TPTB are so hell bent on regulating and censoring it. Information and data is the ultimate manifestation of true power. Not some fantasy being who chooses jews or muslims as his favorite race to spread his message of self glorification. That's what upsets me so much about all religions. That's why I refuse to tolerate erroneous ideas. Ever. If you're wrong I'm going to correct you. Some are too impoverished to afford internet. That's why we have a duty to use our time on it righteously. Educating each other. What does the internet mean to you?

reply to post by akushla99


Quintuplets. lol. Clever, but outside of context. Anyway, It seems like you're insinuating that if someone has a psychological defect that prohibits them from experiencing the quality of life the way the rest of us do (anorexia, schizophrenia, colorblindness[I guess that's more of a physical defect but whatever]), than we should all just leave these individuals to their own devices even if we have the medical know how to rectify their miserable conditions. I read a story a few weeks ago about a group of African women who kidnapped some african men and raped them to collect their sperm for a magical ceremony. As a appealing as the idea of man-rape may be for some here, this is just one small example of the retardation that transpires when educational neglect is allowed to run rampant. Trust me, ALL religions are wrong. ALL religions are evil. Anything that encourages superstitions while neglecting science can have nothing but negative effects. Deep down you know this. Do not be scared. There is NO hell. Never was. Earth is as bad as it gets buddy.

Originally posted by the sloth
reply to post by akushla99

 

Quintuplets. lol. Clever, but outside of context. Anyway, It seems like you're insinuating that if someone has a psychological defect that prohibits them from experiencing the quality of life the way the rest of us do (anorexia, schizophrenia, colorblindness[I guess that's more of a physical defect but whatever]), than we should all just leave these individuals to their own devices even if we have the medical know how to rectify their miserable conditions. I read a story a few weeks ago about a group of African women who kidnapped some african men and raped them to collect their sperm for a magical ceremony. As a appealing as the idea of man-rape may be for some here, this is just one small example of the retardation that transpires when educational neglect is allowed to run rampant. Trust me, ALL religions are wrong. ALL religions are evil. Anything that encourages superstitions while neglecting science can have nothing but negative effects. Deep down you know this. Do not be scared. There is NO hell. Never was. Earth is as bad as it gets buddy.

Haha...eeeveelll...rrrong...youre seriously cracking me up...

What I'm 'insinuating' is...that you have no idea what these examples were experiencing, and therefore have no authority to pass judgement on the veracity of thier subjective experience or not...and neither does any vascillating, white coated, jump to the next big thing science bunny...

Anorexia - standing in front of a mirror swearing they are too fat and must lose weight...whatever you believe is true
Schizophrenia - aliens are eating my brain...whatever you believe is true
Colorblindness - the color red does not exist...prove that it does...

Quintuplets may have been 'out of your' context...but in the mind of a child, it makes perfect sense...where did yours go?

Couldn't help eavesdropping on the starving child in africa - I love this internet stuff...parts made by underpaid workers in sub-standard conditions...funny how we rationalise these anomolies of thought...

But, I agree, education is a waaay good thing, as long as it doesn't become hijacked by those jumping bunnies of science-religion, flavour of the month newest, shinyest next big theory of whatever...until the usurping theory, we were a little wrong, this is what we think now education...but, thats sort of what lernin is all about, some people need to be lerned how to be good...we didn't all growed up with proper food what made our brains work right 'n stuff...

Hell...s'funny.
Transpose the OP onto the Tibetan Book of the Dead and Dying, yourtube vids of 'I went to hell and met the devil', bardo trip sequences from any era, and the bible hell stories...explains the OP quite well...every other 'avenue' of discussion has missed the point, or gone to a personal gripe based on preference...only really proving the gist of the OP.

The 'Me' generations of the 60's became the compromised and jaded contra-anti-fascists that banded together and guzzled gas like there was no tomorrow, introspected the world into oblivion while kaftan-ing up around the fondue cooker...thier children, luckily, rebelled to just the right degree, to bring it all back into a kind of balance...swapping the arpanet for the internet...now we all wanna know...and the knowledge is a double edged sword (once again)...because a price needs to be paid by literal unvested interests to the vested edumacated 1st world...don't you feel lucky, and knowledgeable, and righteous?

Å99

reply to post by jhill76

Hitler for example, believed in total control of the world . . .

Actually that is not even true.
What the self appointed guardians of politically correct history got this from was notes written by a high official who attended a meeting with Hitler in 1937.
What this person wrote was his own idea of what needed to be done (the so-called Hossbach Memo), and was not a transcript of what Hitler had actually said.

. . . the summary of a meeting . . . between . . . Adolf Hitler and his military and foreign policy leadership . . .
en.wikipedia.org...

What you have been taken in by is propaganda generated by the Allies to justify their destruction of Germany, which was what was done by the globalists who themselves saw that country as a hinderance to their own plans for doing just that, for example by Germany having pulled out of the London based banking system, the same system that you see today being very successful in their scheme. For example crashing a country's economy and then giving it a "bail-out" loan that they can't repay, ending with the country signing agreements to sell off the country's resources to their buddies at cents on the dollar (like what they are doing to Greece right now).

All this may seem completely off-topic but there is a reason why I would mention it other than my dislike of generally accepted lies, which is that whenever I see anyone repeating them, it makes me reject the idea that whoever is doing this is God's appointed prophet of truth to the world.

reply to post by akushla99


Yeah, I feel way lucky, righteous, and to a certain degree knowledgeable. Let me hip you to a few of my SUBJECTIVE BELIEFS: There's nothing more beautiful than science and knowledge. They're both fundamental precursors to planetary progress. That what we're here for: Enlightenment and Progress.[opinionated input end].

What people don't get is that only through helping and educating each other will true lasting happiness ever be obtained. That's where the internet comes in. But there's a difference between helping someone and tip toeing around their convictions to avoid conflict. Especially when those convictions have been killing and dividing human beings since the dawn of time. If you keep feeding everyones erroneous egos, we'll have fifty more religions before the decade is through. WTF will that accomplish? Why doesn't anyone ever question the need for worship at all. If you look at the situation objectively there is basically no difference between a god fearing man and a white fearing house slave.

reply to post by the sloth


My subjective belief is that faulty humans hold us back.

It has nothing to do with religion, but the way humans view religion that is faulty. I can say the same about science that you say about religion. I can say that the egos of scientists are more detrimental to the advancement of science than religion is.

The truth is, we've advanced in helping and educating people for centuries. Is everyone happy yet? No.

Is it really religion that divides people? No. People divide themselves based on everything you can possibly imagine. (politics, education, money, race, difference of opinions, etc. the list goes on and on).

Your whole premise is faulty.

Until you can get everyone to stop being morally defective and all believe the same thing (which we know will never happen on this earth), life will continue to go on as it has for thousands of years. Until you realize that man is not capable of changing himself without higher intervention, you'll be asking yourself the same questions and complaining about them for the rest of your life.

Never put your entire faith in men, for they are faulty with faulty logic.

Maybe some research into human behavior will help you come to a better understanding.

reply to post by Deetermined

(which we know will never happen on this earth)

You may "know" that, but I doubt that everyone else would agree.
I do not advocate a new world where only those who have the "correct" religion go, while everyone else dies in a conflagration that destroys this one.
Your "objective" source for your stated "fact" may be taken, by most people who properly examine it, as metaphorical of a world once the evil power system is circumvented by people deciding that they really want to fix the world rather than giving up on it.

I apologize for the long "2"post.I've been thinking on this for a day..this is the edited version!

One of the flaws of predetermination is assuming everything is "in" our time/space.For lack of an accurate term if there are "other" dimensions time/space can be circumvented just as an animators time/ space is outside and in the time /space of his drawings.When the animators makes random dots inside the drawing they are in his world also but he controls where and what they are in the drawing.Everything is in the hands of the creator animator.

The most logical assumption since there is so much evidence of order is that our perception only perceives randomness because it is limited.The design looks chaotic because so little of it is perceived.Yet the dichotomy is even inside the chaos we observe mountains of evidence of order that cannot be random and function.

That points to in effect everything inside of the drawing is formed completely in the animators mind then caused to happen in the drawing.Including all of the drawings actions,thoughts and beliefs.The cartoon characters cannot know the mind of the creator unless the creator puts it in the mind of the character.

If the premise of this scenario is true we are living in a type of matrix.It is real however to us it is an illusion.We know this to be true by things that are known fact.What we perceive as material objects being mostly solid when in fact they are 99.999999999999% space.We perceive we see color yet they have no color themselves it is our perception of the light spectrum.These are evidence pointing at the truth yet of themselves are not The Truth whole truth nothing but the truth.Our perception may lead us to believe certain things are true yet that doesn't mean they are.And if our present state of being is the evidence of the Whole Truth it can only be revealed by the creator.

Yes this is partly reflects how it works.Of course it is only an analogy.The basis tain't rocket surgery.Math is the structure of everything.All things lead to math.The problem is all things cannot be understood per the pixel analogy.The full pixel arrangement is outside of our realm of observation.What little we can observe is only evidence.The proof cannot be known because the equations sum is infinite which in the physical realm is only a concept because there is no resolution to infinity.

As I've said many times here at ATS the keys of all the math is based in the Fibonacci number (Fn)sequence which by everything grows .From the Fn is summed phi/Phi ratios ... relationships...... the nature of both are infinite.They never resolve.They just continue to grow into increasingly complex patterns...and this is the simple stuff!!..and of course everything that is solid is built on a foundation which is Fn and phi/Phi.So in keeping with the basic postulation the observed random pixels are not random at all.They are only observed to be.The fact is it is known that through math that the Fibonacci numbers is the sequence of how things grow and that their ratio/relationship is phi/Phi.The unobservable "part" is infinity. ......

cont'

pt2...

How does this relate to belief.In one sense it doesn't.It isn't belief it is knowledge.1+1=2..always ..it is not a belief it is fact.When the sums of the equation are known there is no belief.We don't believe in math when it is summed correctly we know fact however we must trust what we don't know of how the equations are summed but the "product" of the math itself is not belief it is fact...knowing.

Math equations themselves cannot provide proof only evidence which can only be "believed" because proof of the unobservable"sum" cannot be observed in this realm.The only logical conclusion is the math is signifying the truth...the product/sum.It is a symbol for what I call "solid stuff"..which is spirit...The creator that is causing everything to live...and this is where it gets even more unobservable.The creator is summing the equation and the equation is himself...infinite..ever growing from our unobservable perspective and expanding way beyond our very limited perception However some of the evidence is observable but not the proof.

Some call this evidence faith.However something is not true unless it is true evidence.Just because something is believed does not make it Truth or even valid evidence.So what we are left with is a conundrum.Folks trying to "prove" the unprovable by evidence or belief.Neither can be done.What is true of the higher is true of the lower ...belief is only belief...evidence is only evidence.Knowing(proof)of the unobservable can only be revealed from the creator who is Truth...and there is not a lot of that going on.The few proofs of the physical realm we have are through math so the closest we can observe of the truth comes through "truth" science not belief. However both are necessary"paths" in the equation and not always linear(belief-science).They are convergent paths but they do not necessarily lead directly to proof / truth...and that is the great dilemma.

The problem comes in when we think either one does lead to truth.As I said belief by its nature of lack of evidence is the most hit or miss.Belief itself can eventually be the focus and global relativism sneaks in....where anything I believe is truth.
It is the perennial conundrum because almost all of our lives are swimming in belief.There are very few solid facts we perceive and they all lead back to being verified by math.That's why words are babel.They mean many different things. Everyone with their own personal agenda translator trying to decipher 7 billion languages into unity of belief...and of course religion-religion is the biggest proponent of this "belief" system.It is ALL faith and no fact..mere speculation(some with higher degrees of evidence) which is why it is so easy to dismantle from a POV of logic.None of it can be proved.

I am not proposing a solution because there isn't one that can be solved by a "method".The debates will rage on with no one winning in any sense.As Solomon said it's all vanity of vanity..it has no meaning because it can resolve nothing.Of course this won't fly with most folks.Things need corners and boxes to fit into so they can be defined and since that is impossible with real solid stuff the battle of words rages on an on.

I am positive of only one thing in the long run.Math... and it's resulting product will be "known" as the way to Truth and as the Truth.It is the only true language that will never change.It is THE living Word.It won't be"figured out" though.It will be "known"..and the sums will all be done because only the creator can do it all.Belief is just a path that leads to a gate that opens into a pit that leads to a path that leads to a gate that opens to a field.An infinite field that EVERYTHING is coming from.The field is everything.Its equation is summed.Its all been done and is complete.

reply to post by Sahabi



No, no, no, no. Everything you believe is not true. Your feeble little mind could not begin to get what the truth is Accept that you don't know anything that is the truth and you are going to not only be better off, but that part of reality that knows the truth and is the truth, the part that like I said, you can't possibly know, is going to become closer to you and won't have to overcome all the misunderstandings of the truth, that you've convinced yourself you know.

The would is going to be much better place when everybody figures out they ain't got the answer.

Originally posted by okyouwin
reply to post by Sahabi

 

No, no, no, no. Everything you believe is not true. Your feeble little mind could not begin to get what the truth is Accept that you don't know anything that is the truth and you are going to not only be better off, but that part of reality that knows the truth and is the truth, the part that like I said, you can't possibly know, is going to become closer to you and won't have to overcome all the misunderstandings of the truth, that you've convinced yourself you know.

The would is going to be much better place when everybody figures out they ain't got the answer.

This is the funniest post on this thread...priceless...
Good to see some wacky humour.

Å99

Originally posted by the sloth
reply to post by jhill76

 

I think... no... I'm positive that you're confusing you're "father" with random acts of nature. By the way, what good has all of your father's plotting, molding, and favoritism done so far? Oh wait that's right. You're sitting comfortably in your chair surfing the internet, munching on midnight snacks, while babies in Africa are dying miserably every 40 seconds (objective FACT). Praise God. May his message spread to the darkest corners of the earth. Amen.

edit on 31-7-2013 by the sloth because: +,

Im positive that your're confusing OUR 'father' with random acts of VIOLENCE, negligence and disregard of its own creation. This PLOTTER of the human destiny, is so sublime in its wiliness/covering its footprint has not yet been discovered.

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by okyouwin
reply to post by Sahabi

 

No, no, no, no. Everything you believe is not true. Your feeble little mind could not begin to get what the truth is Accept that you don't know anything that is the truth and you are going to not only be better off, but that part of reality that knows the truth and is the truth, the part that like I said, you can't possibly know, is going to become closer to you and won't have to overcome all the misunderstandings of the truth, that you've convinced yourself you know.

The would is going to be much better place when everybody figures out they ain't got the answer.

This is the funniest post on this thread...priceless...
Good to see some wacky humour.Å99

Everything I believe is of the "PHANTOM TYPE" chasing the dragon belief, as in (to be taken seriously) you have to write the fiction find a publisher and one that has competent editors to FIX your messups, plus--build you a crystal cathedral to sell the publication, a necessary-- soap box venue thats believeable. Everything you beleive is true UNLESS YOUR LIEING TO YOURSELF.

reply to post by jhill76

Sometimes I wish that I couldn't remember some of the strange things that I believed when I was very young. Then again, sometimes I'm glad that I can remember the untrue things I believed when I was very young.

I would hear things said in conversation that I thought I understood and based portions of my worldview upon those misunderstandings. Example:

"She was sent to a home for unwed mothers."

From this overheard statement I gathered that weddings were magic ceremonies which endowed women with the ability to have babies. Without the magic ceremony, babies could not be put in the woman's tummy. However, in very rare instances, through freakish mutation, a girl could get a baby. When such mutations, such freaks of nature, are detected, they would be sent away to institutions designed to protect society from mutation while also insuring that the care of the mutants was provided for by trained professionals who had the fortitude to interact with mutants without losing their minds.

Now I emphasize that the worldview which I held to be true for about four years was false when I held it, and it remains false to this day. If I had retained that false worldview into adulthood, I could have wrought much harm in the World. Education of objectively shared reality is very important.

As for metal objects bending to cheer and amuse me; hmmm, what's that saying? "Pictures or it never happened!"