Whatever you believe is true!

reply to post by jhill76


May Peace be upon us all.

Because of Relative-Subjectivity, we all have different experiences, different perceptions, and different thoughts of the same reality, as illustrated in the parable "Blind Men And An Elephant".

Everywhere I searched, every ideology, belief, or understanding I followed, and every name or concept I put on God, it always reacted and interacted with me the same way. Talking to Jesus, Allah, Myself, The Universe, Infinite Unity, Chi Energy, God, Matrix, or any other concept I understood was always a conversation with the same thing. I'm willing to put full certainty that any other path or concept I follow with sincerity will also be an interaction, communication, and experience with this same thing.

My conclusion is that every single belief, understanding, or truth your heart adheres to will be truly real for you. And every single belief, understanding, or truth of someone else will be real for them. Truth is relative. Make Jesus your truth with sincerity, it will manifest as truth in your life. Same goes for any other belief system you adhere to. Every religion, philosophy, and understanding when followed with sincerity becomes truth, relative to the individual. Everyone's path is different, and Everyone's path is the right path for them.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by jhill76

 

My conclusion is that every single belief, understanding, or truth your heart adheres to will be truly real for you. And every single belief, understanding, or truth of someone else will be real for them. Truth is relative. Make Jesus your truth with sincerity, it will manifest as truth in your life. Same goes for any other belief system you adhere to. Every religion, philosophy, and understanding when followed with sincerity becomes truth, relative to the individual. Everyone's path is different, and Everyone's path is the right path for them.

Its individualized, its your truth, its made to fit your experience, you have to recognise no one will ever have the same experience as they are devined to be different. This is specialized autonomic freeform enlightenment, created by yourself for yourself to perceive in later lifetimes to get off the wheel (I see them as crumbs left on the ground) maybe this one LIFE will be your ticket to pass GO 200.00 dollars.

reply to post by jhill76

That statement rings true. For example: From your viewpoint, you believe that angels are not real. Unto self, this is true, because you have not had any experiences or proof of their existence.

Utterly false. Truth is not relative. In fact, there is a specific fallacy dealing with that very notion called the "Relativist Fallacy". Truth is independent of people knowing it or believing it. Case in point, the world was still round even when everyone believed it to be flat.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I agree. Truth is not relative or subjective.

I'm not sure what jhill is pointing out exactly, but I would like to think that he's hinting at the notion that what people believe to be true at any one given moment is only for the purpose of fulfilling God's plan for them and the rest of the world for that moment, and that moment only, until all moments be fulfilled and the total truth revealed. (Did that make sense?)

reply to post by akushla99

LOA...describes a very small subset of the 'belief' paradigm.

Just because I did not go into detail regarding the mechanisms of LOA, does not mean that I am ignorant regarding the vast web of the topic. The fact is that the primary operative mechanism of LOA is one of the biggest factors that all of the techniques you mentioned have in common. It all starts with believing. Believing it will work, believing it is not a waste of time, believing you will come away with something useful. After that, it's just a matter of allowing your subconscious to program itself according to that one parameter: believing you cannot fail, and indeed, knowing that it is already done.

Psychology at its finest.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I agree. Truth is not relative or subjective.

I'm not sure what jhill is pointing out exactly, but I would like to think that he's hinting at the notion that what people believe to be true at any one given moment is only for the purpose of fulfilling God's plan for them and the rest of the world for that moment, and that moment only, until all moments be fulfilled and the total truth revealed. (Did that make sense?)

edit on 30-7-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Yes, correct. My follow up posts points to this conclusion.

reply to post by Deetermined


Well, I'm not sure about the rest of the OP, but the statement I quoted was a Relativist Fallacy.

reply to post by jhill76


what do you say to the bloke who tells you , 2 +2 = 5 ?

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I agree. Truth is not relative or subjective.

I'm not sure what jhill is pointing out exactly, but I would like to think that he's hinting at the notion that what people believe to be true at any one given moment is only for the purpose of fulfilling God's plan for them and the rest of the world for that moment, and that moment only, until all moments be fulfilled and the total truth revealed. (Did that make sense?)

edit on 30-7-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Yes, correct. My follow up posts points to this conclusion.

...Just to see if I am understanding here, I would like to present a rough analogy:

We have several billion random number generators all working in tandem. At any given moment, each of the randomly generated numbers produced by these generators was, in fact, not randomly generated, but preordained by some higher power as a value in an extensive series of values which exist for the sole purpose of being compounded as the sum of all intended values, like pixels in an image. Seemingly randomly generated numbers are actually predetermined pixels which evolve in subtle unison with all others until a complete image is formed - an image determined by this higher power.

Is this correct?

reply to post by jhill76


I don't know why you chose to message me rather than respond directlyto my post here on the thread, but you have informed me that my analogy is accurate. With that in mind, I must ask: is this notion corroborated by vigorous scientific investigation, or just a product of your whimsical contemplations?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Actually, I believe this to be true also, even though I don't understand it in it's entirety.

In the meanwhile, I've asked another member on ATS to join this thread to answer you question in more detail, since he could probably give you a mathematical formula for why it happens this way.

At the very least, it should provide a feast for thought.

reply to post by Deetermined


Thank you for your thoughtful endeavors. I look forward to seeing the case your friend puts together, although mind you, I will be examining it with a critical eye. I am not here to help people feel good about their fantasies. I am here to assist in discerning the accuracies of any concepts or ideologies presented. And if accuracies are found to be lacking, I will point it out. It's nothing personal.

reply to post by jhill76


OP your post is groovy man

DEEP so deep, lot of truth in it

If I may, I would like to add the following, What if there is no choice on any level, what if you are here to play out a part in cosmic movie.

What if the only way, that you would/could participate, is for your memory to be wiped,

What if you didn't have a say in memory wipe, what if you didn't have a say in coming to the cosmic movie.

WHAT IF THIS IS HELL

AND WHAT IF GOD IS AN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND YOU ARE ITS SLAVE

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Just for a little insight, this person that I've asked to answer your question isn't someone that agrees with me as it relates to theology. For one, our views on free will are different. He doesn't believe in free will at all, while I have a tendency to believe that we do get to practice some free will, even if it means my free will led me to make a mistake and I'm put back into the same situation (history repeating itself) in order to correct that decision later. I believe that our free will allows us to make mistakes, recognize those mistakes and correct them. And I believe that it is all figured into the "equation" or formula since God knows beforehand (when creating the formula) to figure those into it.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Just for a little insight, this person that I've asked to answer your question isn't someone that agrees with me as it relates to theology. For one, our views on free will are different. He doesn't believe in free will at all, while I have a tendency to believe that we do get to practice some free will, even if it means my free will led me to make a mistake and I'm put back into the same situation (history repeating itself) in order to correct that decision later. I believe that our free will allows us to make mistakes, recognize those mistakes and correct them. And I believe that it is all figured into the "equation" or formula since God knows beforehand (when creating the formula) to figure those into it.

edit on 30-7-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

I like the way you have detailed this, I wish all could understand this.

reply to post by Deetermined


While your suggestions make some fair bit of sense, I'm a little curious as to how you automatically attribute these "equations" to a distinct and conscious ruling divine entity, rather than a randomly generated auto-matrix that transcends our comprehensive cognitive grasp.

Is this why Christianity, before it was known as Christianity, was referred to as "The Way?"

If whatever you believe is true, then why the importance on preaching and converting? Was it so that the state of Christianity is what it is today?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I'm not someone who believes in anything "random", even if our minds have a tendency to perceive it that way.

I believe everything has a perfectly designed order (like nature).

I also believe we (as humans) have a tendency to throw wrenches into that wheel spoke of order, but we'll never be able to throw it completely off track.

Everything has a way of regenerating itself, even when we think we've damaged it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

reply to post by Deetermined



Relativist Fallacy only applies to objective facts. To hold the Relativist Fallacy to this thread and this discussion is implying the non-existence of subjective and relative experience of the inner world, thoughts, emotions, and spirituality.

The Relativist Fallacy can not include personal perceptions, thoughts, emotions, desires, wants, or likes/dislikes. It deals only with objective facts.



You mentioned God, so let us begin on a more "mundane" relationship.

Think of any person that you know. Your impressions, thoughts, feelings, likes, and dislikes about this person is not universally objective. Everyone that also knows this same person will have different opinions and experiences about him/her.

Let us take an apple. All of the sensory perceptions experienced about this apple will leave a different impression on you than on another person. Relative-Subjectivity will give different experiences and impressions.

The Sun that shines in the sky,.... we all see it, we all experience it. But ask what it means to different people. Ask people at what temperature and what amount of direct sunlight they enjoy or dislike. It will all be different because of relative-subjectivity.

In the concept of God,... something much more grand and glorious than a relationship with a human or apple,... if we can not determine a 100% totality of universal objectivity to person or one apple, how then are you prepared to place limits on something more grand than the known universe, i.e., God?




On a level there is objective truth. On a level there is subjective truth. Enlightenment, Understanding, and Wisdom comes from unifying the dual poles and reconciling the paradoxes.




What is your favorite food? This is relative-subjective truth.

What are your thoughts and opinions of the sun? This is relative-subjective truth.

reply to post by Sahabi


Personally, I don't think what any of us "thinks" matters.

The only thing that matters is what God thinks of us and how we fit into his equation and expectations.