An Atheist's Desperate Plea

I refuse to go back to a belief in god.

I've been back and forth several times in my 35 years. the last time I turned away was on an evening in which I was feeling a sort of dire soul-crushing anxiety ....the worst ever. I found myself about to "ask for help" when it struck me quite suddenly that, if there were a god, it would be really insulting if the only time people talked to you was when they needed you to bail them out.

or rather, what a terrible reason to go to god.

I have always loved the poetry of the entry level "token" of Freemasonry (I am not one). good to ponder:

"IS THERE NO HELP FOR THE WIDOWS SON?"

p.s. I really appreciate your story. thanks for sharing.

reply to post by tgidkp


Don't you think its possible God expects us to come crying to him when there is no where else to turn?

Even the hardcore athiests turn to him at their lowest times you know...

reply to post by Pistoche

All in all, I kindly request the members of ATS to provide me with some helpful words of wisdom and/or advice towards seeking out God and embracing religion.

To this statement, I would respond that "seeking God" and "embracing religion" do not necessarily have to go hand in hand. I firmly believe that one of the biggest obstacles to finding God lies in the hands of religion.

reply to post by Pistoche


OP, as a fellow atheist, all I can say is; DON'T DO IT!

reply to post by Pistoche


I've found that the idea of a god doesn't really answer anything... after all, where did the god come from?

However, I've moved from a materialist standpoint to ...well, somewhere else. I've had personal experiences which suggest immaterial intelligence... and thus, a god isn't precluded anymore... or more specifically, some odd spiritual hierarchy is more possible than I once thought.

Overall, I'd say this is a highly personal search and thus asking the internet for input isn't a bad thing, but it might not bring answers that speak to you, either. Good luck and dogma is bad, bad, bad.

reply to post by Pistoche


You get yourself into a cognitive dissonance only when you look at the religion-science-paradigm as a scientific individual investigating faith or a prodigal man of faith lookin for truth.

Science and religion need to be set aside because it's only those individuals in the world that identify themselves with a concept or dogma of any sort that perpetuate the cognitive conflict.

Science is supposed to promote the observation of the world and trying to describe it as it is with an effort at sound logic whereas religion is a cultural symbol, as you say yourself.

The trouble is, you being an analyctical human being may be slightly disconnected from your associative thinking.

I've had some spiritual or even mystical experiences in my life, was very afraid of god as a child and felt really lost inside when I found out at some age that things as we know them aren't permanent, but I also did a lot of psychedelic exploration and had to force myself to reach out to other minds no matter how bad the world treated me.
And what I think is that there are no opposites in the real world, only in our minds.

There are mechanisms in this world that can't yet be scientifically observed such as bolt-lightning, OOBEs, UFOs and mutual dreaming.

There doesn't need to be anything supernatural to it at all, after all it simply constitutes a number of phenomenon we hear about only through anecdotic evidence, yet which I personally can confirm not to be simply made up concepts.

On the other hand, if you don't make yourself aware of the fact that everything in the universe has always been connected in ways that we had to make sense of on our own then only looking for a confirmation for the concept, alas an exchange of thoughts between minds with varrying congruence to one another, of god is futile.

You, being intelligent, fail to receive the teachings of religious writings because you are probably better learning from life yourself. You can think for yourself, so don't go looking in religion.

My answers to the question of everything was how the # should you determine the nature of things on the makroscale when things are pretty unusual on the quantum-scale already and it's simply our range of awareness defining what of reality we are evolutionary obligated to perceive and interpret.

My personal belief that I have thus far been able to support to some sort of cultural programming that doesn't exploit self-blame and other cultural mechanisms of control is that religion is simply a cultural concept coming from things which are hard to relay by words because their nature is different than that of our thoughts which are tools to avoid danger, evolutionary speaking. It enables our survival through problem-solving skills which are now completely in regress due to technological progress and thus lead in my mind at least to a whole lot of #ing trouble because it's so easy to try rationalize things about yourself or the world with a guilt-based mindset (which for emanates from religions which in turn are based on truly uplifting spiritual experiences) that we may lose touch of the true conflict behind the ideas which in our minds seem to contradict.

Everything is the way you look at it so expand your paradigm of science-religion to one of spirituality.
The atheist moral is that you are much more of a self-aware person when you don't believe in the almighty god because it releases you of responsibility over what's going on in the world.

So even atheism is in itself a spiritual path nowadays because the concepts that are developed today have ethical implications which religious people could profit from.

Looking at the world as a mere projection of our own limited understanding however, we still must conclude that the reasons for faith are those not resulting from logical thought but feelings ( which the empowering sense of destiny that usually comes with some sort of connection to what feels to you as higher truth is conveyed upon)
because feelings extend from the hippocampus and then extend outward toward the so-called higher brain functions which help remodel the consciously perceived amount of data, yet not the subconscious processes that constitute the base for our conscious perception, they will always be hard to trace back using our higher brain-functioning.

It's funny how there now is positive media response to increased medical use of drugs that even involves coming to terms with things as they are through psychedelic exploration that even explicitely notes the fact that we as a society have a spiritual problem and everything else we've ever heard that might stop someone from doing something is only an incomplete picture serving those in power.

reply to post by Pistoche


try looking into buddhism. there wont be half the dogma as in western religions and everything is more clear cut.

the instructions are simple:

pursue the path of righteousness by trying to live as much as possible in truth. doing this will eventually overpower the amount of deception that is within your circle of life.

be compassionate and empathic, these emotions are of the gateway for all emotion. this develops one's emotional abilities through practice. simple example is in empathy. being able to imagine yourself in someone else's shoes to feel and see the world from their perspective. with practice, one can develop this faculty to such an extent that it would seem as tho they are reading the mind of others. practice is development.

be true to yourself. do not deny yourself a truth, or be forced to act against the truth within you by someone else. seek those things which are good and stand for them.

and very important.. trust your intuition. u can gradually build ur trust in ur intuition by letting it make minor decisions. allowing it's suggestion to become what u take into practice. observe and learn from it's performance.

meditate and pray to the Supreme Creator with all sincerity and earnesty that he may reveal to you truth and wisdom. this will come in the form of light if u earn it.

good deeds attribute to the positivity of the life of your spirit here on earth. endeavour to ensure that they outweigh your sins and misdeeds by as large a gap as possible, and keep aiming to widen it further. this process can never stop until one has achieved perfect uprightness. it is assisted by daily introspection of oneself and your actions and choices over the course of each day. this is the form of currency that is accepted for trade on the universal level of the cosmos.

resist temptation and aspire to repent your misdeeds and times of weakness. to recognize them and to repent means to not do them again. a gift to the cosmos, and a sacrifice of a negative pleasure from your physical being. it acts as an offering or olive branch to the inner self. in an effort to end the war between spirit and flesh and come to a mutualistic relationship.

u are tested by the choices in your life. make good ones, endure your pain and suffering with resolve and not complain. do all these things and the spirit will give you light. judge not others and yet be proud of your uprightness and clear conscience in the presence of God. it is a great task to be achieved. it is not easy but the reward is worth it. in fact the reward is priceless. to receive such a reward, one would never feel satisfied that they have paid fairly enough. that their deeds could have obtained for oneself such a reward.

u only fail if you give up.

reply to post by Pistoche

Based on some of your remarks, it sounds to me like you already do believe in some kind of God, or a power beyond yourself.

The real question appears to be, which God should you believe in?

You'll receive a variety of responses to that query.

I would suggest that you look into each faith and see which one pulls you toward it. Read the scriptures of those faiths and not the supplemental works. If one grabs your heart, look further into it.

And by the way, don't allow yourself to be pressured one way or the other by followers of any faith, or atheists.
Let God tap you on the shoulder and call your attention in that direction.

Good luck.

You do not need to believe in any god for anything, what people tend to believe comes with believing in god can be found elsewhere. You are in the fortunate position to see past these religions and you're not using it to your advantage.

Apparently you are a logical person, and because of this you will never believe in any ideology because of the obvious fact that there isn't evidence in their favour. On the larger scale life is pointless, but that's nothing to be afraid of. On our scale you can add meaning to your life by leaving a legacy or making the world a better place, even passing on your genes adds meaning to your life. Being sucked in to a religion will add nothing though, you'll just go through life believing that you'll go on to somewhere else rather than doing something productive here and now.

There's literally nothing that religion can give you that you cannot get without it, I'm happy to be challenged on this.

This thread annoys me quite a lot because it portrays the Atheistic life as though there's something missing, when in fact it can be richer if you make it so.

Explain to me clearly what you actually hope to get from a religion and I will explain how you can get it without.

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
reply to post by Pistoche

 

Based on some of your remarks, it sounds to me like you already do believe in some kind of God, or a power beyond yourself.

The real question appears to be, which God should you believe in?

You'll receive a variety of responses to that query.

I would suggest that you look into each faith and see which one pulls you toward it. Read the scriptures of those faiths and not the supplemental works. If one grabs your heart, look further into it.

And by the way, don't allow yourself to be pressured one way or the other by followers of any faith, or atheists.
Let God tap you on the shoulder and call your attention in that direction.

Good luck.

Doesn't the question "which God should you believe in?" greatly cheapen the whole idea of believing in something? Surely if you ask that question then you'll be choosing or forcing yourself to believe in something rather than actually believing in it based on something. If you ask that question then I don't think you'll ever truly believe, even if you don't realise it yourself.

reply to post by jiggerj

Do not seek a power greater than yourself, but BECOME a power greater than yourself. This world, this human race, needs heroes and we need them now more than ever.

Thank you in kind for your suggestions. I have tried this out; it was my main motivation to get into med school. Moreover, I have spent some time volunteering at the local library, hospitals and food kitchens within Toronto. I understand that I am doing something good for the world and it does truly make me happy, but for some reason it doesn't provide me with the fulfillment that I seek. I can't help but feel that I am but one person in a sea of individuals, merely a speck in the grand scheme of things. Am I really making much of a difference? Could one mortal human being make much of a difference on his own?

Originally posted by Pistoche
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Do not seek a power greater than yourself, but BECOME a power greater than yourself. This world, this human race, needs heroes and we need them now more than ever.

I can't help but feel that I am but one person in a sea of individuals, merely a speck in the grand scheme of things.

You are, nothing will change that. Face that truth rather than trying to run away from it. It's no a big deal, why does it matter? It's not just you that is a tiny speck in the grand scheme of things, everyone is, you are not alone. It doesn't mean that you can't have a fun, meaningful life while you're here. You'll gain nothing from believing in god, do you really think false hope is better than this? Our whole planet means next to nothing in terms of the Universe, but you are still part of it and that's a beautiful thing.

reply to post by tridentblue

But you must start by understanding that the power to create your destiny is within you. Go ahead, be a scientist. Test it: Decide you are going to believe some wacky thing for a period of time, and record your experiences after waking up every morning and practising a ritual toward that wacky idea. You'll see.

This is one of the most appealing suggestions for my stubbornly scientific mind. I think I'll start on the 1st of August and try this out for 2-4 weeks. Perhaps I can make a future thread chronicling my experiences with this. Hopefully, I will achieve something through this process, or at the very least, learn something about myself. Thanks a lot, you've helped me tremendously.

reply to post by SpearMint


Not necessarily. My point was that if you already believe that there must be a God of some kind, the next step is figuring out which one it is. It's not really like going down a grocery store aisle and picking one, It's more a matter of hearing a voice and determining its source.

My original response may have been phrased improperly.

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Not necessarily. My point was that if you already believe that there must be a God of some kind, the next step is figuring out which one it is. It's not really like going down a grocery store aisle and picking one, It's more a matter of hearing a voice and determining its source.

My original response may have been phrased improperly.

In that scenario it's best to stay away from all organised religions then, which would be like your grocery store analogy. It's much better to look inside yourself and come to a conclusion rather than being corrupted by a limited number pre-existing ideologies that all claim to be true.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Not necessarily. My point was that if you already believe that there must be a God of some kind, the next step is figuring out which one it is. It's not really like going down a grocery store aisle and picking one, It's more a matter of hearing a voice and determining its source.

My original response may have been phrased improperly.

In that scenario it's best to stay away from all organised religions then, which would be like your grocery store analogy. It's much better to look inside yourself and come to a conclusion rather than being corrupted by a limited number pre-existing ideologies that all claim to be true.

edit on 28-7-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

I agree with you, I don't subscribe to any organized church, I study the Bible and worship based on my understanding of the scripture, I also do not attend any church, or listen to the teachings of any denomination.

reply to post by Pistoche

Am I really making much of a difference? Could one mortal human being make much of a difference on his own?

You are someone with a ton of information in your head. Do you remember all of the people that gave this knowledge to you? I learned to read and write before the first grade, but I don't remember anyone teaching me. But since I do know how to read and write I know that SOMEBODY had to have taken the time to teach me. It's the same with acts of human kindness. The people you touch may not remember your act of kindness to them, but it's in their heads and in their hearts.

And, just as hate can breed hate, so too can kindness breed kindness.

When you find yourself in a crowd, know that the acts of kindness you performed last year, five years ago, ten years ago...has probably touched most, if not all of the people you see before you now.

And, if you really REALLY need to find a god in your life, then where better to look than in the eyes of a child. a homeless person, an old woman, your sister, father, neighbor... How can anyone love a god better than loving his fellow man?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by tgidkp

 

Don't you think its possible God expects us to come crying to him when there is no where else to turn?

Even the hardcore athiests turn to him at their lowest times you know...

Who the hell told you this nonsense, did you just make it up?

I watched my Dad suffer a miserable slow death as cancer ate him away, he wasn't a militant atheist, a hardcore or strident athiest he just didn't believe because of lack of evidence, that any of the gods existed. He didn't believe right to the last rattling breath he took and given the suffering he endured, even if a god turned up at the last second my Dad would have probably flicked it the finger..

Admittedly people in desperation will turn to the strange when there is nowhere left to turn, look at how many xtians that don't trust their yahwhe god turn to Mary or a saint or rubbing some majik beads or saying magik words over a cross shaped piece of wood. Look at how many xtians need a pastor or priest, self titled Reverand to pray for their sick child. It does not go unnoticed how many times we hear of entire congregations and prayer groups govelling to the invisible man in the sky on behalf of someones child dying away from some disease that, if it were not imaginary their god would have had to have created to begin with.

Dude if I were terminal I would probably out of desperation try anything, stroke a rabbits foot, throw salt over my shoulder, eat broccoli , wear a bra, but the hell would I grovel to an invisble psychopath that had not even had the common courtesy of even introducing itself to me even once in my entire life.

Let's be honest, the OP can only be a complete fool if he's lived his life thinking rationally and now wants to throw reason out of the window and seek childish juju magik.

Originally posted by Pistoche
reply to post by Akragon

 

Thank you for your time and your reply. I truly appreciate it. I will definitely look through your threads and the story you recommended. As for meditation, when I approached my parents (both of whom are deeply religious) with my dilemma, that was what they recommended. However, despite how hard I tried, I just couldn't do it. I have tried watching YouTube videos and reading countless articles to aid me in meditation as well, but to no avail. I attempted it for about 2 weeks with sessions of 30-60 minutes and had no success whatsoever. Did I give up too soon or do you think something else might be the matter?

If you are like me an introvert mind that is a little to fast/flackey for it's own good then meditation does not work that well. I need something else and singing for myself or just listening to chakra enhancing sounds work for me. I like that you are trying to find proof and not accept what you are told to be true. That will in itself make you able to if you continue to seek find what you are after on an understanding that can be higher than the ones who only takes the information as truth. Also if you like computer games and imagining things the go for it. I would not have that extreme focus off the mind on a thing that I have if I was not playing computer games.

Both science and religion is seeking the truth at what is but have a tendency to not look from a outside perspective and notice a bigger truth than the parts. Also questioning your own understanding often gives a possibility to quickly change your understanding and not be stuck in your own dogma of what is.

I was not spiritual at all until I literally crashed thru the wall and the other side said hi. Whatever is on the other side is very nice and from my point of view if you cannot get anywhere now and everything seem to be a waste of time then do other stuff for now and come back to spirituality when you are ready for it. Since I would wait for you I am pretty sure the nice one/ones will wait for you to. You have all the time that exists to evolve.

Thank you for being and even if you do not believe it, you being changes the whole.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Druscilla

 

Ugh... couldn't you at least quote Jesus?

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Yes, but he is not 100% explaining the whole truth there from my point of view, since some souls get the light (crown chakra) and then the feeling of the light and love make them more like children again and they can still be annoyed as hell of the duality that is going on here on this planet. .

In the right environment any soul can shine but on this planet souls are being tested under pressure and that is a good thing. Doing the right thing when everybody else is doing it is easy. Doing the right thing when you get punished for it is harder. The more weight on your "will" the stronger your "will" will become. It is like training for strength. The more weight you are using the stronger you body will become.