Obama plans road trip to push immigration...has he taken leave of his senses?

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by Indigo5

 

from your link:

“those who came or remained in the United States without our permission to register with the government” and to submit to a background check and to pay a fine and back taxes to settle their debt to society. This will give illegal immigrants “probationary legal status, which will allow them to live and work legally in the United States.”

Now exactly how many 'illegals' who are ALREADY 'illegal' by the way, intend to pay a fine and back taxes

If they intended to get 'legal', they would have done so by now.

Then they remain illegal and risk deportation...which Pres. Obama has been doing a quicker pace than either of his past two predecessors, Clinton or Bush.

What are you confused about?

reply to post by xuenchen


I do not understand where these numbers are coming from. I have had no problems getting work at all. Joining a workers union does wonders for you. Pension, medical, great pay. All you have to do is actually want to work.

reply to post by Indigo5


Riiiight....

They're already doing THAT aren't they ?

ETA:

and you apparently 'edited' my entire post....
some people might get the wrong idea.

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by Indigo5

 

from your link:

“those who came or remained in the United States without our permission to register with the government” and to submit to a background check and to pay a fine and back taxes to settle their debt to society. This will give illegal immigrants “probationary legal status, which will allow them to live and work legally in the United States.”

Now exactly how many 'illegals' who are ALREADY 'illegal' by the way, intend to pay a fine and back taxes

If they intended to get 'legal', they would have done so by now.

Obviously these 'illegals' have sufficient incomes (and even fake I.D.) to stay around without 'legal' status.

The entire immigration issue is in shambles.

"settle their debt to society" --- fat chance of that ever happening

reply to post by xuenchen


That makes no sense...Obviously those that are here with fully illegal IDs etc. and choose not to apply for a path to citizenship and go to the back of the line...have nothing to do with amnesty or a path to citizenship? Entirely irrelevant to the discussion. They simply remain at risk of arrest and deportation, which the current Administration is doing more aggressively than the past two POTUS's...SO?......

Originally posted by Night Star
We never had to press two for Italian or chinese.

there weren't enough non-english speaking chinese or italians to demand it, and most of both groups lived here already when the latinos started coming here.
most of the ilalians and the chinese either know english as a second language or were taught it as a first language, there are a number of non-english speaking italians, but china prides itself on having it's people speak english.
by the way america didn't have lots of computerized devices when the majority of italians and chinese came over to america.

We never had to speak Italian or any other language to get a job.

when was that exactly? because i can't think of a single time period where every immigrant spoke english and people didn't get jobs if they spoke more than one language. you don't think people looking to get a job as a foreman on a railroad wasn't expected to learn a bit of chinese? come on...

The immigrants of the past came through proper channels.

LOL are you kidding me? i know someone who's great-grandfather came over illegally and he was from sweden. i doubt my irish ancestors went through proper channels, of course mine came over before this country was founded.. so i guess that really doesn't count.

There is quite a difference between immigrant and illegal immigrant.

yeah 50 thousand bucks and the luck of the draw, our immigration system is messed up, it needs to be fixed.

Originally posted by Night Star


Founded by immigrants over 200 years ago. We now have millions of un-employed citizens struggling to feed their families, too many having to depend on welfare, too many falling through the cracks and living in tent cities. while illegals are working. Is this fair Is this right?
Is it fair that millions of illegals should get amnesty while millions have paid their dues and are still waiting in line while they go through the proper channels?

i really wish people would stop repeating this propaganda.

very few illegals are stealing work from anyone, they are mostly doing jobs no one wants to do.

why is anyone entitled to a job by being born on this hunk of dirt over someone born on another hunk a mile outside the imaginary border?
do you know why illegals get work? because businesses won't pay enough for americans to live on, so citizens won't do the job, so the company gets people who will do the work!

i'm sick of this crap, blame the corporations and businesses that hire the illegals, if there is no work they wouldn't come here.
of course if the businesses payed a good wage to get citizens to pick fruit, you and everyone else would complain about the price of fruit!
of course people could stop worrying so much about getting rock bottom prices for kiwi, and then they wouldn't need to squeeze so hard on the wholesaler, and that would make it easier to adjust wages that turn a profit and help americans survive on the wage they get.

no way that will happen, the corps want huge profits and we are all out for the lowest prices we ca find, even though it makes illegals the only workforce.

Originally posted by demongoat

Originally posted by Night Star


Founded by immigrants over 200 years ago. We now have millions of un-employed citizens struggling to feed their families, too many having to depend on welfare, too many falling through the cracks and living in tent cities. while illegals are working. Is this fair Is this right?
Is it fair that millions of illegals should get amnesty while millions have paid their dues and are still waiting in line while they go through the proper channels?

i really wish people would stop repeating this propaganda.

very few illegals are stealing work from anyone, they are mostly doing jobs no one wants to do.

why is anyone entitled to a job by being born on this hunk of dirt over someone born on another hunk a mile outside the imaginary border?
do you know why illegals get work? because businesses won't pay enough for americans to live on, so citizens won't do the job, so the company gets people who will do the work!

i'm sick of this crap, blame the corporations and businesses that hire the illegals, if there is no work they wouldn't come here.
of course if the businesses payed a good wage to get citizens to pick fruit, you and everyone else would complain about the price of fruit!
of course people could stop worrying so much about getting rock bottom prices for kiwi, and then they wouldn't need to squeeze so hard on the wholesaler, and that would make it easier to adjust wages that turn a profit and help americans survive on the wage they get.

no way that will happen, the corps want huge profits and we are all out for the lowest prices we ca find, even though it makes illegals the only workforce.

edit on 10-7-2013 by demongoat because: (no reason given)

When ICE would deport illegals, every single job would quickly and easily be taken up by citiens.

We DO blame the people who hire illegals. The illegals themselves are not without blame as they know full well they are taking jobs away from our citizens. Do you honestly think that the millions of illegals that are here are all picking crops????? Really? Talk to construction workers and factory workers and others.

You are uneducated on the issue. The proposal oby the "Gang of 8" for a path to citizenship requires that those here illegally after exhaustive scrutiny and fines would go to the BACK of the line...behind those attempting to immigrate legally. Otherwise it removes all incentive for other immigrants to come illegally. It's a ONE TIME offer of a path to citizenship...anyone in the future would subject to immediate deportation and Pres

reply to post by Indigo5


I am uneducated on the subject? here's some eduction for you.

Another misrepresentation is that criminal aliens seeking amnesty would be required to pay fines and back taxes. S. 744 clearly states this is left to the discretion of the DHS, and there are no real guidelines or triggers as to when and why waivers would be issued.

As for the back of the line...Kind of hard to be considered the back of the line when they will be able to keep working and living here, all the while, those that are going through the proper channels are still in their country waiting to get here.

Oh and, here is your exhaustive scrutiny...

We were originally told this immigration bill would keep criminals out. That is patently false. S. 744 provides for the admission of criminal aliens into our country with up to three misdemeanor convictions. But once again, this provision can again be waived by DHS. Let's not forget that many misdemeanors are plea bargained down from felonies, and that crimes such as habitual drunken driving, gang-related offenses, stalking, domestic assault, identity theft and child abuse will not stop a criminal alien from being granted legal status.

It's a ONE TIME offer of a path to citizenship...anyone in the future would subject to immediate deportation??? That is what they said about the last amnesty. You see where that got us right?

reply to post by Night Star


Links??? Could you source your material?

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by Night Star

 

Links??? Could you source your material?

www.seacoastonline.com...

This amnesty, and it will be an amnesty is the last thing we need. There will be far more illegals involved than people are even aware of.

It is shot through with provisos that would swell the number of aliens on a “path to citizenship” to three or four times the 11 million illegals now in the country (if that is in fact the true number) . Most obvious of these are “chain immigration” aspects that will bring in and legalize the spouses and children of illegals, but there are many others of like nature.

One such is a “blue card” (temporary, eight-year) work visa, which might not be a problem in itself, but links to other features. Once here, these workers could qualify for “provisional” immigrant status, just like the illegals, and thus get on the citizenship pathway also. Further, if a future illegal gets apprehended, he can escape removal by requesting “blue card” status for up to two and a half years after the rule is final. Thus, hesto-presto, would future illegals be made legal.

The bill is otherwise riddled with clauses that would help illegals avoid removal, get into the country to begin with, seek “provisional” status, apply for naturalization, ask stays of judgment, and game the system in general. One of the words appearing most often in the bill is “waiver,” closely followed by “appeals” “stays,” “reviews” and “exceptions” : A thicket of legalisms that could and undoubtedly would be used to thwart enforcement.

www.conservativehq.com...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I think your critique is biased and short sided.

The immigration issue is a football that keeps getting passed on down the line.

It is an issue that both parties can find common ground and is high time something is done.

I am glad that Obama ventures off into the public to "campaign". It might be because he was not born into
insane money like most previous politicians, he does not fear the help.

reply to post by Cheesefleas


Help with what? That's the point. What "people power" do you imagine him rallying? The best ..and unlikely event this actually does accomplish is getting some people to write an email or make a phone call to their representative ...and isn't that what everyone here keeps saying is all worthless and pointless anyway?

He's campaigning to people that have absolutely no say, no influence and no power over the outcome of this debate ....while literally and outright refusing to work with those who DO have direct and immediate control over how this turns out.

What is the problem people have, anyway? Secure the stupid border and everyone..and even old farts like Bill O' have said it...everyone will be FAR FAR more open to what a good portion of the nation now seems to want on long term solutions to those that are already here.

However....leaving a pathetically open border with provisions for security that carry such large loopholes to avoid, you could fly a plane through them, isn't compromise, it's suicide. Ditto with this provision about "reuniting families" by basically opening the door to not only those who came here by their own choosing and are still here now, but their whole friggin family who HASN'T come here yet.

Obama is one man. One part and literally ONLY 1/3rd of this Government. He needs to step down off that big rock star horse he looks down on others from and accept that fact. Congress isn't an obstacle put there to piss him off and if it's not passing ..JUST MAYBE..it's because a measurable portion of the nation DOES NOT WANT IT. He seems to honestly fail to appreciate the fact intelligent people are capable of disagreement with him and don't simply "fail to get it".

Nothing Obama does in his vacationing road trip will change a thing with those already against this, IMO.

reply to post by Cheesefleas

The immigration issue is a football that keeps getting passed on down the line.

It is an issue that both parties can find common ground and is high time something is done.

Healthcare reform was a football that kept getting passed down the line too, but look how that turned out when it was rushed into play without the planning and thought that should have been given to it first. Now healthcare reform is doing the exact opposite of what we need right now, which is creating new permanent jobs. We need permanent jobs first, then tackle the issue of who becomes a permanent citizen. Obama's doing it backwards.

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by Night Star

 

Links??? Could you source your material?

www.seacoastonline.com...

Thanks for the Link.

The article was wriiten by a Far Right Radio Talk Show Host only slightly more palatable than Rush Limbaugh.

jeffchidester.com...

And the entirety of his rebuttal to the "Path to Citizenship" proposed is premised on the idea that DHS will not enforce the law. Not the law...but he is saying it won't be enforced. A particularly ignorant line of defense. He also ignorantly goes on to explain that the DHS doesn't have guidlines to enforce...a law that hasn't been passed yet!

The gang of 8 that proposed this path to citizenship includes...

Sen. Jeff Flake, R-AZ
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-SC
Sen. John McCain, R-AZ
Sen. Marco Rubio, R-FL

So the idea that this is a liberal/progressive or Democrat agenda is also false.

reply to post by Indigo5


In the last amnesty, we were promised closed borders and that it would be the LAST amnesty. They lied. Since then we have had more illegals than ever and now another amnesty looming.