Obama plans road trip to push immigration...has he taken leave of his senses?

Agreed Wrabbit, except for the Dig at Vacuum salesmen (how dare you compare them to politicians, its insulting to salesmen every where).

Obama needs to focus on the numerous fires that are burning the nation down, debt, education, extraneous endless war (Drugs, Terror, etc.) and less on pandering to the public for his pet projects.

How about fixing the problems before creating all new ones, at a time when we have Corruption in the IRS, NSA, CIA, FED.

WE need less government intervention in our lives not more.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

You keep using words and phrases like "Compromise" and "work together to get things done" I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

There is no compromise in Washington. The right isn't going to compromise about anything, they just deny deny deny. And work against this president and the American people.

By the way, where's the jobs these guys promised when they took over the house of representatives at anyway?

That level of extreme partisanship is what has helped destroy this nation. Heck, I was once much like you on the right side of politics. I still am very much a conservative (altho people calling me a Republican will get an ear full).

The difference is...I realized two things you haven't and may never understand. First? The people in Washington have Big D's and Big R's next to their name for public consumption and election time. It only really matters there for dividing power and assignment of committee seats for control of policy.

Outside of those times? Hell.... Mitt Romney and Ted Kennedy literally campaigned together. I was very hardcore against Romney during primaries and have a directory full of that material. In that case, I have a joint Kennedy/Romney campaign poster to illustrate it. Democrats and Republicans in Washington fight like cats in public then go get drunk together at Cocktail parties and hosted functions. Fools buy into the 2 sided system at that level. Fools and youngsters.

Second? NORMAL people that populate 98% of this nation and have little r's and little d's generally have FAR more in common than they disagree with .....If politicians would stop pushing both sides of the citizens to hate each other and fight too hard to stop and realize, we're all on the same damn side. :shk:

* By the way... My growing dislike for Obama and his crew isn't partisan. Democrats I know and respect at college hate the sorry twit as much as I do...and wish they hadn't voted for him as much as I avoided it in the first place. Democrats and Republicans my foot. This is "powerful" vs "powerless" if anything and parties just add something juicy for the match, so TPTB can watch and enjoy.

reply to post by Indigo5

So Congress will not get anything done...and the premise that Pres. Obama can somehow sway the far right in Congress to do anything is not a sane premise.

So going to the public on the Immigration issue...highlighting that Congress has stalled and refuses to do anything serves a couple of purposes.

The thing is....Obama has not really tried to work with Congress. Even during the years he outright owned Congress by Democrat control in both houses with a true Super-Majority in the Senate, he still didn't work with them. He told Pelosi and Reid what he wanted, what he'd settle for and not to bother coming back without it.

Meetings this President has deemed to lower himself to with rabble in Congress are timed. Sometimes to the minute as if the Speaker of the House was a common tourist looking for a photo-op.

If Barack Obama cared either way about working WITH instead of OVER Congress, he'd have had more meetings with both leadership sets than the high profile political stunts he has had with having them in (with photographers) to have "serious discussions" while all but ridiculing them outright.

......At this point, Biden would be the better man by far. That's hard to say, given the persona of the mindless professor the man projects ...but he spent a lifetime in Congress where Obama spent 1 full term and no-show'ed the votes on most of that. He doesn't know how to work WITH people...just against them,. Chicago style. It's all the man literally knows, apparently.

So...I'm not even saying I want Obama out for a Republican (Speaker Boehner becoming President Boehner is the stuff of screaming nightmares, I'm sure you'll agree) I just want ANYONE but Obama. He's a Rock Star with his own enjoyment and thrills advanced before the good of the nation, as I've seen his term play out. It's downright scary!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


He HAS tried to go to Congress...the Far right thinks he was born in Kenya..or at least treats him as if he was...a socialist, tyranical dictator, communist, facist yada yada...how do you start a conversation with someone who believes you are the Anti-Christ? The moderates, even Boehner? Every time Obama works with him...and he has struck a couple deals that went south with Boehner...the far right demands Boehner's head and they come at him hard...twice Boehner almost lost his leadership role for striking deals with Obama and the Far right in the House refused to follow. Both fell through and cost Boehner...Boehner can't work with Pres. Obama, the TP members are itching to stab Boehner in the back.

So...not buying the premise that Pres. Obama has not tried to work with Congress..

The Congress we have is the most effed up and thoroughly gridlocked that we have had since the civil war and maybe worse...and if you disagree, not sure where to start.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


He's trying very hard to be the people's president. He's looking for the love and admiration of some if the truly great presidents but I doubt he's going to get it. Not with the way things have been going. I hate to say it what with all we have learned about government spying but there is a very large amount of Americans quite upset with the man for various reasons composed of passive people like us on the boards and extremists we've been hearing about lately in the news. Obama may be another president who is brought out of office by a crazy with a gun. It will be horrible but I can sort of see it happening.

Big issues like legislations about Immigration reform need to be on a ballot.

Trouble is, I don't think the U.S. even has a national referendum policy ?

They won't do it because it would take away many unchecked 'decisions' made by bought off politicians.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

* By the way... My growing dislike for Obama and his crew isn't partisan. Democrats I know and respect at college hate the sorry twit as much as I do...and wish they hadn't voted for him as much as I avoided it in the first place. Democrats and Republicans my foot. This is "powerful" vs "powerless" if anything and parties just add something juicy for the match, so TPTB can watch and enjoy.

edit on 9-7-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I am not calling you partisan for not liking the President...Your not liking him or "liking" him is irrelevant....For Effs Sake I "Liked" Pres. Bush and still thought he was the worst President in a long while and disagreed with almost all of his policies.

And this the 2nd? time I have seen you post about Democrat friends that don't like Pres. Obama?

Nothing personal...but (A) hardly a Gallup poll and (B) Who cares? So you know Dems that don't like the President? Know any GOP that didn't like Romney? Boehner? Palin?...And yes...the NSA business is BS and OUR GOV...OBAMA INCLUDED needs a foot up thier ass pronto...but the GOP AND DEMS support the NSA...so WTF does a college buddy who is a DEM not liking Obama have to do with the time of day?

now that we understand that people are capable of independant thought...how about we return to the topic...The Obama Admin leaked a story to the WSJ threatening to take the Immigration issue to the home states of the far right who oppose any reform...makes sense to me...pass immigration reform, fix the effed up system or the President will go chat with your voters before the 2014 Congressional elections. Will it work? Who knows...but not a crazy idea...

reply to post by Indigo5

He HAS tried to go to Congress...the Far right thinks he was born in Kenya..or at least treats him as if he was...a socialist, tyranical dictator, communist, facist yada yada...how do you start a conversation with someone who believes you are the Anti-Christ?

I'd argue that point except for the fact that an instructor at school actually had a student get so worked up over the DEEP belief that Obama was, in fact, the Anti-Christ that she almost felt the need to call security and have him removed from her office. They'd just been casually chatting as she related this to me later. He started getting assertive, then aggressive then downright nutty about demanding everyone believe he was the point man for Satan himself. :shk: So....Sadly.. Yes.. Extremist morons do exist.

Do they exist in CONGRESS is the question? Are there SO MANY in Congress that he can legitimately say he cannot work with them, even if trying with all his skill and ability? If so, then he needs to be selling Recall elections to remove the Congressmen so far out of touch with reality, they won't work with HIM ....not just storm off to take a road trip and actually mingle with the REAL radicals we're referring to.

Every time Obama works with him...and he has struck a couple deals that went south with Boehner...the far right demands Boehner's head and they come at him hard...twice Boehner almost lost his leadership role for striking deals with Obama and the Far right in the House refused to follow.

You're covering why Boehner should take caution with what he does...You're not saying anything for why Obama wouldn't want to push the point of negotiations. Anything bad for Boehner is GOOD for Obama, since he's openly and repeatedly lamented how he VERY much wants Pelosi back in the seat in 2014 and he'll work with them then. Well....What if she doesn't win? I guess we're just not working at all until 2016?

Both fell through and cost Boehner...Boehner can't work with Pres. Obama, the TP members are itching to stab Boehner in the back.

Boehner isn't the one saying he can't work with Obama in this instance. Obama is saying he can't work with Congress as a whole. That's a personal failing within Obama as much as Boehner's statement is a failing on HIS. These buffoons aren't elected to play like 2yr olds in a tantrum. They are elected to *FIND* a way to make it work.

If Obama really wants to get pissy about this, he has the absolute authority as President by the Constitution to force Congress to stay in session AGAINST THEIR WILL if need be, and stay there until the next election if he so desires it. He COULD force a lot of things.....He chooses not to. That is his side of the blame here. Boehner has his own.

The Congress we have is the most effed up and thoroughly gridlocked that we have had since the civil war and maybe worse...and if you disagree, not sure where to start.

I don't disagree. The only thing we may disagree on here is when that really started. To be honest, I think the outright partisan war in Congress started with the impeachment of Bill Clinton and it never ended. That was the tipping point, I believe, where many on both sides swore off much in the way of good faith effort to get anything done. It's also why I want to see ALL the old timers run out of Congressional Office on a pike.

However... All of the above still doesn't give the Chief Executive a pass for saying 'Well, we tried! Sorry....I'm off to sell it like a P.R. campaign since the only ones who can work, won't work'. Our system gave both a President AND Congress tools to deal with the other when national interests were falling victim to infighting. The fact neither uses them....is their personal points of liability if nothing else.

Yeah well certain people like Obama, and his supporters NEED TO STOP acting like the only people who want to come to America are from Mexico time for a moratorium on South of the border.

Time to give other people from OTHER countries a shot at the 'American dream'.

reply to post by Indigo5


Indigo, I'm not at all sure what you're even on about with this one? The reply wasn't to anything you said and your reply to mine is totally out of context to what had been said to start it.

There is no compromise in Washington. The right isn't going to compromise about anything, they just deny deny deny. And work against this president and the American people.

^^^ That was the original part of the post I was replying to that caught me strongly. The GOP is not only working to undermine the President (hard to argue there...true enough ..as he is against them) but also working against the American People? So basically, it's saying the whole of the GOP are legally defined and prosecutable Traitors to their nation. I was replying to how OUTRAGEOUSLY partisan the statement and sentiment was from that note. That thinking is what eventually leads to civil unrest and war if enough of the population actually buys and believes it.

On a personal level? I know absolutely nothing about Obama outside his professional life. Nothing to say as much, anyway. In different circumstances? Heck, he could have been among the protesters I stood with for his overall attitudes and mindset. I got along with some of them, even among the radicals. They weren't making decisions to impact a nation and overall world, either

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Extremist morons do exist.

Do they exist in CONGRESS is the question? Are there SO MANY in Congress that he can legitimately say he cannot work with them, even if trying with all his skill and ability?

In a Congress where only a few votes determines the outcome...More than enough where they can block any moderate legislation that even the moderate GOP wants passed. Something like 66 to 49 members as best I can tell. en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

You're covering why Boehner should take caution with what he does...You're not saying anything for why Obama wouldn't want to push the point of negotiations. Anything bad for Boehner is GOOD for Obama, since he's openly and repeatedly lamented how he VERY much wants Pelosi back in the seat in 2014 and he'll work with them then. Well....What if she doesn't win? I guess we're just not working at all until 2016?

It takes two to talk? How is Obama going to work with Boehner if Boehner knows that working with Obama will cost him his speakership?? Confused on that thinking...It's been tried...Rush Limbaugh nearly had an anurism when Boehner and a couple of GOP golfed with Obama, ditto with a dinner....total freak outs..

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Boehner isn't the one saying he can't work with Obama in this instance. Obama is saying he can't work with Congress as a whole. That's a personal failing within Obama as much as Boehner's statement is a failing on HIS. These buffoons aren't elected to play like 2yr olds in a tantrum. They are elected to *FIND* a way to make it work.

No BS....Pres. Obama CAN work with Boehner and vice-versa. But the TP/Far right want nothing to do with it and with 50 or 60 votes, any deal Boehner strikes will just serve as an embarrassment to him when the TP/Far right in Congress happily tells him hell-no. It's happened repeatedly with Boehner's moderate proposals and EVERY time the President has been within a mile of anything Boehner wants passed. Boehner WANTS the President to hammer the far-right and go on a Home-State tour...cuz he can't get it done internally in the GOP and the GOP needs to pass immigration reform before the 2014 elections.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
If Obama really wants to get pissy about this, he has the absolute authority as President by the Constitution to force Congress to stay in session AGAINST THEIR WILL if need be, and stay there until the next election if he so desires it. He COULD force a lot of things.....He chooses not to. That is his side of the blame here. Boehner has his own.

Didn't you just say he needed to cozy up to Congress? Geez...and not sure about the technicalities of what you are proposing.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

I don't disagree. The only thing we may disagree on here is when that really started. To be honest, I think the outright partisan war in Congress started with the impeachment of Bill Clinton and it never ended. That was the tipping point, I believe, where many on both sides swore off much in the way of good faith effort to get anything done. It's also why I want to see ALL the old timers run out of Congressional Office on a pike.

Bill Clinton was a liar and a cheat...and a good President and a very smart man. BJs and infidenlity should not be impeachable offenses. I am a pragmatist. As far as when this started...the Clinton affair was theatrics...but Obama as a terrorist, muslim, hitler, anti-christ was a whole different flavor of vitriol.

H

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
owever... All of the above still doesn't give the Chief Executive a pass for saying 'Well, we tried! Sorry....I'm off to sell it like a P.R. campaign since the only ones who can work, won't work'. Our system gave both a President AND Congress tools to deal with the other when national interests were falling victim to infighting. The fact neither uses them....is their personal points of liability if nothing else.

edit on 9-7-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Hey...Yes Pres. Obama has failed in a lot of ways...he has also succeeded...But again, where he failed...in getting things done in Congress...wow, I can't picture a President who could under the outright, spoken out loud hatred that his...ahem...ethnicity and political views...provoked amongst the most conservative members.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Indigo, I'm not at all sure what you're even on about with this one? The reply wasn't to anything you said and your reply to mine is totally out of context to what had been said to start it.

I was flipping up and down the page...confused two different posts of yours...correct you weren't responding to me.

Originally posted by neo96
Yeah well certain people like Obama, and his supporters NEED TO STOP acting like the only people who want to come to America are from Mexico time for a moratorium on South of the border.

Time to give other people from OTHER countries a shot at the 'American dream'.

I've been thinking the same thing. Years ago we had a good mix, people from everywhere. They came here legally and with great respect for our country, its' laws and its' language. Now, because of so many years of unchecked illegal immigration, we have to press 1 to hear own language for important phone calls, have to speak spanish in order to get a job that has nothing to do with international business, see spanish signs everwhere. They have come here illegally and have been catered to at every turn. I'll be damned if I'm going to be forced to speak a foreign language in my own country to get a job just because most of the employees speak it.

You come to another country, you don't expect and demand that the country change just for you! How very arrogant and rude when millions of immigrants before them have learned the language and respect and obey our laws. We don't need millions of people who are above the law, who get to pick and choose those laws, who get catered to at their every whim.

Can't win a day can he?

I hate a good globalist as much as the next guy, but when the hell else is he supposed to go out and deal with domestic issues? Hell I'd be happy if my Prime Minister bothered to road trip out here to our neck of the woods so I could give him a piece of my mind, or at least hear him lie to my face instead of through the CBC.

Yes there are more pressing issues in the world, but Foreign Policy cannot always be at the top of the agenda. America is bleeding, in part because of immigration and all of it's fallacies.

It's more likely he's doing it before the election cycle starts of course, cause well, he's a politician and that's usually how they think, but is it really bad to focus on such a thing?

~Tenth

Well I'm torn on this one.

I do agree that there is a way to "work" from the desk in the oval office...but the "work" he seems most concerned about are things I'd rather he skip.

I am not for amnesty. Send the undocumented workers back home and they can get in the rear of the line where they belong. Allow the ones who have done things the right way to come in and work. I know, I know...the farmers are crying for that cheap labor...

I want him in his office working on things like trade agreements that will create decent paying jobs here at home...not figuring out a way to put 11 million immigrants into the poorhouse and on Gov subsidy...(but the corporations love that!)...

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

It's priorities in my mind's eye. Stumping immigration reform is low on my personal list of priorities...

Originally posted by Night Star

I've been thinking the same thing. Years ago we had a good mix, people from everywhere. They came here legally and with great respect for our country, its' laws and its' language.

Puhleese...Same as it ever was...from segregating themselves (Little China...Little Italy...etc..every major city) to the intolerance and moaning about non-assimilation. The thing is that there have always been kids whose parents barely speak english or not at all...but ya know what?...those kids do. We are not now, nor have we ever been so weak a culture that we can't assimilate immigrants...we are all immigrants! It's the nature of America...the outcasts and adventurers from across the globe. Assimilation is our DNA ...and we are melting pot and that is our greatest strength in the world, even if some folks don't understand why.

And as far as ...OMG I saw a sign subtitled in spanish...travel the world a little and you will discover that the English language dominates the planet...signs, speakers ad infinium...

Little side-story relating to "immigration": the county has been working on the road to my place...it's gravel and private for the most part so it gets minimal attention.

It's steamy here in South Texas so I took some bottled water out to the guys working.We do that 'round here.One of them, a friend of a friend of mine,has worked for over 25 years and has lost one kidney to cancer already.His back was killing him and I asked if he had plans to retire...he cannot...he has to work to keep his insurance and benefits.
No options for him because of his health.He can't qualify for any sort of program...

However (and he is Hispanic) he proceeded to tell me in no uncertain terms and language that where he goes locally for treatment is FULL of non-English speaking illegals who are getting what they and their offspring need for nothing...nada.He said the parking lot is full of new SUV's and he just can't understand what he's failed to do as a hard working citizen.He is stuck between a rock and a hard place as I am sure many are?

I felt terrible for him.

I think the POTUS might be in for a hell of a shock if he starts flaunting his agenda to people like this man,the son of immigrants who worked hard and played by all the rules only to be treated in a sub human way while so many others "take"...he'd best be mindful of his route!

I think people (even those who voted for him) are beginning to see he is an ignoramus

Democrat voters had a choice during the primaries between Obama (a former community organizer and junior Senator) and Hillary Clinton (seasoned politician, even if I disagree with her politically on most issues).

Obama won, and was later elected president. Twice.

Let me tell you how he got elected in the first place. White guilt and the media.

Every magazine and newspaper trumpeting "Has America Turned The Corner On Racism?", proclaiming Obama as the savior of mankind. And he's black!"

The fact they he never did a thing politically in his life mattered not to these people. They saw a chance to vote for Obama and absolve themselves of their white guilt. "See! We're not racist! We elected a black man! Well Half black, but that close enough for us! America really turned the corner today! Look! He won the Nobel Peace Prize for doing jack sh*t!"

These voters are responsible for the state America is in today. I would say honestly, had Hillary won, the country would be in better shape than it is now.

Obama doesn't have a clue. From foreign policy, to domestic policy. He is clueless. He will go down as one of the worst presidents of all time.

His latest stroke of brilliance? Supporting Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood over Egyptians who want a more secular state. I mean, isn't the left in this country all about freedom from religion? The right to be athiest if you want? No Christian displays in public, etc, etc? One would think they would be all over the wishes of the Egyptian people to be free from the Muslim Brotherhood.

And arming al Qaeda terrorists in Syria? Don't get me started. Say what you want about Assad, but, for the most part, Christians, Jews and Muslims were free to attend their place of worship largely unmolested.

But, who cares about that? Arm al Qaeda terrorists fighting the Assad regime, so they can establish a Muslim caliphate.

I can't strictly blame the Obama administration for that one. That doddering old fool McCain was also on board with the idea.

But, in regards to the OP's post. I don't think Obama took leave of his senses. I don't think he had any to begin with.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by Night Star

I've been thinking the same thing. Years ago we had a good mix, people from everywhere. They came here legally and with great respect for our country, its' laws and its' language.

Puhleese...Same as it ever was...from segregating themselves (Little China...Little Italy...etc..every major city) to the intolerance and moaning about non-assimilation. The thing is that there have always been kids whose parents barely speak english or not at all...but ya know what?...those kids do. We are not now, nor have we ever been so weak a culture that we can't assimilate immigrants...we are all immigrants! It's the nature of America...the outcasts and adventurers from across the globe. Assimilation is our DNA ...and we are melting pot and that is our greatest strength in the world, even if some folks don't understand why.

And as far as ...OMG I saw a sign subtitled in spanish...travel the world a little and you will discover that the English language dominates the planet...signs, speakers ad infinium...

We never had to press two for Italian or chinese.
We never had to speak Italian or any other language to get a job. The immigrants of the past came through proper channels. There is quite a difference between immigrant and illegal immigrant.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Are you surprised?

I thought we all knew that these men were merely figureheads?

Further proof of this- is like further proof horse crap stinks.... There comes a time when you no longer need "further proof".