Muslim Brotherhood (Nazi Roots)

reply to post by steaming


Okay...

reply to post by Deetermined

You say you want links, but you yourself provided none?
As for sources, sure: "Nasser, the Last Arab" by Said Aburish. Explains that the first time he came in contact with members of the Muslim Brotherhood was during the Arab-Israeli war in 1948, and even then, had doubts about them. He still tried to form an alliance with the MB, but realised that theirs wasn't a nationalistic goal like his, so from then on, he did his best to keep them out of Egyptian politics.
So....his opinion on them starts out with distrust, involves one single attempt at an alliance, and then is forever working against them. I'm sorry if Deetermined's parenthetical "Nasser himself may have been one of these" just doesn't cut it.

Ideologies are designed to attract stupid people so it's no surprise that 2 groups of stupid people will occasionally align with each other to serve their own (stupid) short term goals.... even if their ideologies are diametrically opposed.

The irony is seemingly lost on the members of each group however the few at the top must gleefully rub their hands when they concoct these plans as it appears the more obviously stupid the arrangement is; the more likely it is to be accepted by their members.

reply to post by babloyi


In the meanwhile, there's no denying that the Muslim Brotherhood had connections to the Nazis.

The Society's official position was that Egypt should refrain from participating in the Second World War. However, in fact it was involved in strong ties to the Nazis. These links began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoirs from that period, confirm. Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.

en.wikipedia.org...(1939-1954)

As I said in my first post in this thread, and I repeat here, the fact that there were many Egyptians (and Indians and Iraqis and several other colonial subjects who were wanting to get rid of the British) who were involved in "agitation against the British" and through that collaborating with the Axis powers (for the purpose of expelling the British), isn't evidence of "Nazi roots". Also, I'm not sure of the purpose of mentioning Haji Amin al-Husseini is, since he wasn't part of the Muslim Brotherhood either.

While I in no way support or defend the actions and purpose of the Muslim Brotherhood (I don't even know them), it does seem that "Muslim Brotherhood" has become something of a convenient boogeyman..pointing everywhere possible and yelling "MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD INFILTRATION!". The OP called them a "Muslim Illuminati" , and they're even used as a form of accusation by the loonier part of the US right wing (Michele Bachmann for example).

reply to post by babloyi


At one time the Muslim Brotherhood took a moderate stance, but they are now teaming with Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and other jihadist organizations to spread Political Islam throughout the Middle East in order to create an Islamic Union that doesn't include secular states.

reply to post by Deetermined


While yes, Hamas supposedly started as a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood (brought into power by the Israeli government to counter the PLO), none of the other groups you mentioned are connected. The Sunni Muslim Brotherhood distrusts the Shi'ite Hezbollah, and while Osama Bin Laden may have been influenced by the writings of early Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda disavowed them pretty early on in its creation.

reply to post by babloyi


That has all changed now. They have all formed a unity to spread Political Islam first, then they'll try to hash out the Sunni/Shi'ite differences later.

In case you didn't notice, in Egypt, Morsi supporters and the Muslim Brotherhood were waving Al Qaeda flags.

reply to post by Deetermined


Care to show where you're getting this from? Al Qaeda doesn't even HAVE a flag (or a logo).

reply to post by babloyi


Do a Google image search.

dont forget about the Al Ansar, the SS muslim division.

link here

take a look and read

en.wikipedia.org...

What are you talking about? The LIBERALS DEPOSED the Muslim Brotherhood led government.

Do you get that? They are no longer as powerful as they were a year ago today. Israel should be ELATED with this change of events. So why exactly are you making a thread about this now, when this is actually good news for the region?

Originally posted by babloyi
Also, I'm not sure of the purpose of mentioning Haji Amin al-Husseini is, since he wasn't part of the Muslim Brotherhood either.

Roots. The MB sprung from his efforts. You can't be a part of something that doesn't exist yet but you can create the existence of something in the future...that was the purpose of mentioning him.

reply to post by terma


There are 10's of books on this subject. Simply do a google search of "books on Hajj Amin Al Husseini and Nazis". There are PLENTY of books on the subject. Most if not all political analysts and writers are aware of the connection.

But mind you, a past connection does not imply a present connection.

You should probably also refrain from starting a thread on a subject which you only have a partial knowledge of.

Present day Egypt is mired in an IDEOLOGICAL battle between liberals and Islamists. The Muslim Brotherhood didn't come to power because of widespread grassroot support for Islamism: quite the opposite actually (which would explain this quick and easy popular uprising) . The fact is, they came into power because they were the most organized and formidable political party outside of the Mubarak government. They made promises to the secularists which they failed to keep: they were systematically filling important government and military positions with Islamists - a patently undemocratic activity. Opponents warned Morsi and his cohorts plenty of times to stop this, to be more transparent and allow democratic processes to determine government appointments. But he continued to undermine democracy left and right.. Until....the liberals came out and deposed him.

This is GREAT news. It's good for Israel that the Islamist platform isn't working in Egypt. As Arabs are wont to say: what happens in Egypt doesn't stay in Egypt. Since they failed in Egypt to effect their program of Islamization, it's likely that they'll fail elsewhere as well.

Originally posted by Astrocyte
What are you talking about? The LIBERALS DEPOSED the Muslim Brotherhood led government.

Do you get that? They are no longer as powerful as they were a year ago today. Israel should be ELATED with this change of events. So why exactly are you making a thread about this now, when this is actually good news for the region?

Last I heard they (MB) were still on the streets killing people in their day of rage or whatever.

It's not good news if you're getting hit on the head with a bat. It is great news, for the region, that the MB is out of office. If the mainstream media had been talking about MB Nazi roots then I doubt they would have been supported publicly by Obama or anyone outside of fundamentalist Islam. Muslims I talked to hate the Muslim brotherhood yet they are still not entirely discredited, hence the thread. Also, I'm new here and thought this true middle eastern style "Illuminati" sounded above top secret enough.

reply to post by Deetermined

I already did when you first mentioned it, that is why I asked.
Googling "muslim brotherhood egypt al qaeda signs" gives:
i.telegraph.co.uk...
and this: mideastposts.com...
and this: onaeg.com...

But no Al Qaeda sign.

reply to post by terma

Last I heard they (MB) were still on the streets killing people in their day of rage or whatever.

They're a small but determined bunch of rabble-rousers. But don't exaggerate. They are in the minority.

If the mainstream media had been talking about MB Nazi roots then I doubt they would have been supported publicly by Obama or anyone outside of fundamentalist Islam.

When you talk about the "roots" of the Muslim Brotherhood, you're misunderstanding the relationship between Nazism and the MB. Hassan Al Bannah was led to the creation of the Muslim Brotherhood independent of Nazi assistance. He supported the Nazis, because the Nazis were enemies of the Jews. As the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. His interest in collaborating with the Nazis wasn't intrinsic to the Muslim Brotherhood. Although there were a few intersections in ideology - conservatism, traditionalism, etc.

But that's really besides the point. Modern political analysts considered the connection to the Nazis to be irrelevant to modern day Islamism. The Muslim Brotherhood has 'moderates'. By moderate they mean, people interested in preserving the primacy of Islamic traditions in traditionally Muslim societies, tempered by a democratic institutional framework. The "hardliners" are the ones who are not willing to compromise: who want to full out coerce non-Muslims to embrace Islam. This is what Fawaz Gerges emphasizes in his writings.

Fortunately, the brotherhood has been exposed for what they were (predictably) all about: surreptitiously planning to re-Islamize Egyptian society. The Liberals were not unaware of this intention. They gave the Brotherhood some time to make true on their commitments - but, as suspected, they failed. They couldn't reconcile the responsibilities of democratic governance with their uncompromising fundamentalist dogma.

All I can say is: WOOH! Sometimes you really think the worse - that the region is gonna fall into war, Israel will be destroyed. Just shows you how much is outside our predictive forecasts. We think we "know" so much, but in fact, society follows a course that is sometimes very difficult to pin down. The Islamist agenda simply cannot compete with the stereoscopic influence of the internet. More and more Muslims are being exposed to western ideas - freedom, democracy, liberty - and these ideas are too attractive to turn down. Fundamentalist Islam simply cannot keep pace with it.

It should be noted that the first war after the Revoultion in America was with Islamics (barbary pirates) and if I remember my history, it went on for almost 20 years. So the fighting with the arabs is not a recent event in our history. We have had many opportunities to wipe these poor misguided people from the face of the earth, but we in this country have never recognized our real enemy until we get smacked in the face. John

I was thinking maybe Nazi Roots might not be accurate from what some of you have said here so I did some internet research--here are a few quotes some of which are from a previously provided wiki link:

Anyone who lived in Damascus at that time was witness to the Arab inclination toward Nazism.

This admiration would combine aspects of Nazism into Ba'athism.

The two most noted Arab politicians who actively collaborated with the Nazi were Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (al Quds) Haj Amin al-Husseini[19] [20] and the Iraqi prime minister Rashid Ali al-Gaylani.

For instance, Anwar Sadat, who later became president of Egypt, was a willing co-operator in Nazi Germany's espionage according to his own memoirs.

During the 1930s, al-Husseini consolidated his leadership position and expanded the Pan-Islamic movement. He founded the World Islamic Congress and supervised the creation of a number of clandestine organizations, including the "Holy Struggle" youth movement (al-jihad al-muqaddas) and the paramilitary al-Futuwwah, and helped funnel arms and equipment to them. He traveled widely in the Middle East and interacted with his counterparts in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. Among his associates was the Syrian-born leader of the militant anti-Zionist "Black Hand" group (al-Kaff al-Aswad‎), Izz ad-Din al-Qassam.

Muslim Brotherhood established in Egypt by Hassan El Banna in 1928. Amin Al-Husseini becomes a central member and ideological inspiration for the Muslim Brotherhood. Mother organization for today’s Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Hamas. The Muslim Brotherhood preaches Wahhabi Islam, which justifies violent means to rid the ‘Muslim world’ of its non-Islamic element. It envisions a Pan-Islamic Empire, where strict Islamic law rules over all.

From that it appears the words Nazi Roots are justified because it was not just cooperation with Hitler against the British but "a central member and ideological inspiration for the MB": Al-Husseini was borrowing heavily from his Nazi collaborations. That's what roots are IMO.

reply to post by terma

Amin Al-Husseini was in no sense the inspiration for the Muslim Brotherhood. It was created completely independent of him, it is only later that he was possibly recruited to the Palestinian branch of it, with no indication that Al-Banna was even aware of him before that. Al-Banna states his inspiration as being Muhammad Abduh and Rashid Rida, with no mention of Al-Husseini. Aside from that, saying that Amin Al-Husseini "founded" the World Islamic Congress is a bit of a stretch, considering that the meetings called at his behest lasted 10 days in 1931 by which time all the attendants left disgusted at his transparent attempt to gain power for himself, and never returned.

Also, Egyptian Islamic Jihad is not, nor was it ever, a part of the Muslim Brotherhood. They both vehemently deny being a part of or related to the other (as well as differ themselves in their actions and beliefs).

Lastly, while some branches of the Muslim Brotherhood (outside of Egypt) follow salafi/wahabi interpretations of Islam, and some members may be wahabists, the Muslim Brotherhood certainly doesn't adhere to Wahabiism.


I have no vested interest in the Muslim Brotherhood, or Al Qaeda, or the Egyptian Islamic Jihad or Amin Al-Husseini, I'm just pointing out these things, because as nice as it may be to tie up everything neatly into a little MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD box, if it doesn't fit, then it doesn't fit.