New Statement from Edward Snowden

Originally posted by 0bserver1
He also asked asylum in the Netherlands , but our government denied him that ... So our government does agree with the Obama administration and are forced to go along their protocols.. It's like trowing a bone and say catch...

In fairness, it doesn't neccessarily mean that the Netherlands "agrees" with the Obama Admin on this, it just measn that the US Gov. has a "lever" aka threatened consequence...over the Pols/Gov. of the Netherlands.

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by theabsolutetruth

 

The more that people of the world are educated on the true nature of their governments and general unethical practice. the more people will be able to have a real say in the democratic processes in their lands.

The hope I am holding is that there is a NON-HUMAN government coming. There has never been a just ruling of man over man. Mankind is full of greed and the lust of power, there is no other hope.

Gort doesn't look like too cozy a solution either...
"Do as the robots order-- or be reduced to a twitching spent matchstick."
.. big evil D arpeggios, skin crawlin' screams
from the softball field, tanks/cannons melt, civvies boogie like cockroaches
off a glowing 15" skillet. Good op ed; I love that movie though.

Option Two even more repugnant somehow, and flipped onto the table by
the Icke-ers.. your government is already being run by giant reptilian
nasty beings that occasionally like a few of you at a time ground up for a
good Saturday soak. Calgary instead of Calgon beads. Don't get me started....

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
I am pretty sure I read at the start of these leaks that Snowden was UK born, moved to US with parents and became naturalized citizen of the US. He reportedly studied at the University of Liverpool, perhaps online but still a UK based University. There isn't anything showing on search engine, does anyone know if this is true.

If the US effectively revoked his citizen status, apart from the legal dilemma and implications of such a move, he should revert to his birth citizenship. If he was UK born the UK government should welcome him or assist in his right to a passport so he can secure asylum elsewhere.

edit on 2-7-2013 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)

Oh dear... out of the frynig pan and into the Gryphon.
That old boy's got worse teeth than the eagle's talons.


EDIT:: To Gasrok...
Touche'. What could convince me Edward is still above ground
when nobody yet has done the same for Ken Ley's "heart attack"?

reply to post by Indigo5


Maybe not , but our government has an extradition treaty with US so I don't understand his request for asylum anyway?

reply to post by Biigs


I doubt if even an apology would be given, and if it was it wouldn't be taken seriously. Even cartoon like if it was from the mouth of William Vague.

William Hague yesterday admitted authorising the tapping of personal records by the secret services “hundreds” of times each year.

It came amid claims British spy centre GCHQ has had access to a US programme called Prism since June 2010, which allegedly lets agents monitor people’s communications through web giants such as Apple, Google, Facebook and Skype.

Foreign Secretary Hague faced claims of a cover-up yesterday after he refused to respond directly to the allegations about Prism, which were made by American whistleblower Edward Snowden, 29.

Mirror.co.uk www.mirror.co.uk...

It is the United States who will fall and its their own damned fault for doing so. I am not a radicle and untill rather recently I supported the United States but I hate any nation that makes the old (and new) mistakes that Europe has made in the past. Such action can only lead to war, violance and suffering and they (The United States) are putting the foundation for it in their own country right now.

Before the 2nd World War Europe has know for over 2000 years of consecutive war because of that very same policy. Cloaked in various ways such as the Roman dictatorial Rule, the city state wars during the dark ages and early middle ages, the failing rule of kings all the way to power hungry emperors and ultimately flat out dictators.

In a cry of absolute fear for the outside world, a fear only rivaled by China's own fear for outsiders now and in the ancient world the US caved in and threw away the very notion its founding fathers set out to create. When the British enforced their old way rule upon them the citizens of the United States rebelled, they were not afraid; they knew that their enemies had spies, great armies and could attack everywhere and any time. Yet still they fought and ultimately founded a nation that believed that its people were the source of its power.

Yet now the US is afraid and cowards away. The Islamic terrorist attacked and like a child that suddenly becomes aware of the monster under its own bed the US government gave way to fear; an ill advisor to say the least. They should have trusted upon the strength of its own people and the good will of their allies. Instead their minds grew dark and weak and like a cornered dog they abandoned their own children, their very principles and ran for their own lives in fear.

It is not the people of the United States that I blame, not in the least. I believe they are not at fault. It is the government. We knew China was untrustworthy, we knew Russia was simply still the USSR in a fancy new paint job. But to see the US fall and topple in their very own house feels like a back stab. It goes to prove that the words of their ancestors might have been true, but the words of their current leaders are just the same words that so many failed tyrants uttered in ages past. A damned shame.

I know I am not holy, I know that the politicians in Europe are just as bad, certainly since they too have let themselves get perverted after 9/11. You don't hear an argument for me but ask yourself when you stand in front of the mirror if you yourself can live with yourself and your past.

Ah, but maybe I am just some old fool rambling about principles. But remember; it was principles that started the war for independence in the US and if you check history books right you can see that just as many wars started out of principles as they did out of might. Clouds are gathering, even now and here I was wishing to just get an easy summers breeze until they end.

Originally posted by introV

No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.

Goosebumps. If only the average citizen gave a hoot about ANY of this stuff.

I know, right? Is it me or do people just not GET IT? Do they only watch the MSM and, like, Google?

It's stuff like this that should make the frog in the pot feel the heat rising, but he is a big bloated frog and he is too lazy to save himself, it's sad.

Originally posted by Indigo5
Best case scenario is a negotiated situation like Snowden's father has asked for...a return to the USA and a fair, open trial.

This would be ideal. I think he should be found not guilty for leaking information on domestic spying, because he was only breaking the law to reveal illegal activity. The stuff he has revealed, along with other NSA whistleblowers should be all that's necessary to demand a complete dismantling of PRISM and a major overhaul of the NSA, along with a serious conversation on legislation like the Patriot Act and the entire war on terror.

However, I'm less tolerant of his leaking information of governments spying on other governments. All governments spy on each other and it's a good thing that they do, knowing what is being said internally opposed to in meetings between diplomats leads to stability. For example, if two nations say they want peace, and their spies confirm that each wants peace they can proceed. Without spying no nation would trust the other enough to let it's guard down. My issue here also isn't with the message of what was leaked but the fact that he leaked spying methods.

As an example, I'm ok with the diplomatic cables Manning released, I'm not thrilled that he just did batch releases but I think in the big picture they did more good than harm. What Snowden did however was reveal the methods nations spy on each other, and that will lead to nations circumventing those methods which dramatically harms global stability until new methods are devised.

The people.

Well what do you guys feel like doing? I'm down for more general protest, but.... at some point the protest is gonna have to evolve. Maybe current/future tech will empower us as our social networking as in these matters.

Do we just stand on their lawns collectively, a million man march to the whitehouse? Do we wait for more of these people who risk their identities for the sake of the identities, the lives of others?

What can be said when we are being lied to? How can you reason with a liar? What faith can you have that you can converse with one so deep into manipulation?

It supplies fear and lies, of all which it denies its crimes.

I'm sad to say it folks but either we come up with one big #ing party to throw in their face, or were gonna get stuck and cubicalized. Were gonna have to go feral and go for a walk, keeping the sky as our ceiling until were all together and all they can see is our faces.

Personally I feel like the time for talk is over. Someone who seeks to manipulate you, seeks to rule you, so why people are talking as if some day we will find the correct set of sentences, the correct paragraphs, or the correct book that brings to light all the corruption and deviation, I cannot understand.

If you see one man standing outside by themself, for a long period of time, doing nothing, you may think "gee something may be wrong with them upstairs".

If you see a group, and I mean a MASS group, you may wonder if something bigger has gone wrong, and my actually go inquire.

Here is the problem, were are all still the children grasping at time so dearly, we look at the long term and way the odds of throwing everything to the wind and marching, to leaving our couches and our general ideas of what were destined to do; work this job, eat this food, watch that show.

Were still cavemen just looking out for our own caves.....

Sure we would like help eachother out, but at what cost.

There has to be something to connect all of us I suppose. If we are to have the strength and numbers it would take instill fear upon these scheming shadows.

Right now they are forming cracks on this beast, they are bringing the war home and trying to re-ignite # that happened in the cold war, where people go around accusing one another of being the enemy, when it is the one propegating the fear of said enemy living amongst us that should be shunned.

It is ok... to be scared. It's just..... either you get angry now, while there is still time to put use to that anger, or you sit by and watch as country morphs right into the kind of # that lead to people coming to america in the first place; unjust persecution. At that point we will be but a hollow shell of what we once were, and all that anger you will be sure to have then.... will only be able to put back on yourself for not showing the bravery to march.

There needs to be a march, and I don't mean a march down town. I mean a march accross the country.

Yes, it seems that apathy is the big baddie here. That and the fear that any outright action will bring the wrath of the authorities down on us. In the end, it is a belief in what happens after death - since this is the final stage of the drama and is ultimately (after the torture) what the authorities can do to us.

There are many similarities to many of the greats here in this Snowden affair. If you were a super-being wanting to get your message out to the world, to help the people of the world rise up and take back lost control, then this is the modern way for it to be done - through the press and media. If you were planning this kind of mission, then it would possibly appear like this situation. I am not religious at all, and I am not saying that Snowden is the Second Coming, OK? However, I am just saying that a modern-day massiah probably would have done something like this to get an urgent message out at a time when we are all wailing for help due to the mess we have got ourselves into.

On a related topic, I find it really, really interesting that only one person replied to my thread A discussion on whistle-blowing and how best to make it secure So from that I guess that most people would not consider it, dont agree with it or else have no interest in it either.

Originally posted by Archie

Originally posted by Bilk22

It's all a lot of hooey unless he releases something of substance. If he had any real damaging information of illegal activity, he wouldn't be stateless as there are laws that protect whistleblowers. So as of now, this is a diversion from something else and not what it is meant to look like.

OMG, wood - trees. Don't be so willfully ignorant. Try telling that to the governments of Hong Kong, China, Germany and France, the citizens of those countries and the citizens of the EU as a whole plus about a million plus of your fellow Americans. Go on, i dare you.

"Dear Angela Merkel and all German Citizens being spied on (I mean glanced at sideways once but we really, really didn't mean to), I write to inform you that your anger surrounding reports of US surveillance as outlined by that man are really nothing of any substance. Please calm your farm, now, dear, and QUICK! WHAT'S THAT OVER THERE? Yours forever in the name of transparency, decency and the American way, Bilk22."

edit on 1-7-2013 by Archie because: (no reason given)

So I gather you believe that what he released to date is Earth shattering.

reply to post by shaukuna

we need more like Snoden to come forward.
we need to do massive protests ala egypt
we need to get rid of that "corps are people too" crap. corps arne't people, theyre made up of people.
we need to remove the "money is speach"....... because when it comes to poloticians all it says is greed.
make it so that politicians can only accept so much from a single person.
make it so they can only accept donatiolns from people not corps.
lobbiests can sell there wares but can not donate or gift anything to the politician.
make it illegal for politicians to accept anything from a lobbiest.
term limits.
get rid of the Fed.
very limited secrecy. that one will have to be discucced alot lol
stop insider trading in congress.
after that and some other things people may come up with give them a big pay raise to make up for the new restrictions and to help ensure they work for the people.

Manning and Snowden are a great start
but we new a few more to really get the avalanche going then the rest of us need to pile on and keep it going, come what may.

but we also need to organize in some fashion. problem with doing that openly could be seen as sedition and that would be twisted into terrorism. (even tho im not promoting violence, just stating some of the things i think needs to be done.)


OH BOY if i wasn't on a list before, i am now

reply to post by citizenx1


Forgive my ignorance or lack of knowledge about the man by the name of Edward Joseph of the Snowdens, but is he the one who blew the whistle that everything that anyone does on the internet is being monitored by the NSA?

reply to post by qmantoo


Or didn't see your thread, or didn't feel it needed a reply?

Something that might work on the international whistle blowing front is all the leaked information being released in a mass scale in all applicable nations in the form of air leaflet drops.

Imagine, a biodegradable flyer on THE TRUTH, the things you need to know of your governments and international politics, in easy to digest list format with links to a website and paper information sources with further details, such as The poisoning of the environment, Monsanto etc, the global warming issue (the truth of the matter), the hypocrisy of unethical companies being allowed and rewarded, the financial scams / taxation scams creating wealth divides, the denial of facts by governments, the unethical ties to pharma / corporations, unethical wars, the lack of real democracy, the human rights abuses of certain laws, spying, the ruination of the ecosystem, free energy, etc etc.

This flyer would be released on a vast scale, from planes in the sky, ensuring every being in the chosen nations would have a flyer and the realisation of the truth.

There should be options available on the flyer on courses of action, such as a number to call, a petition to sign, ballot boxes to post votes, net campaigns to join etc.

At the very least this would make headline news internationally, the content of the flier available on MSM and the governments would have to act. Further action could result in real action being taken in the formation of Ethical governments and an International Ethics Committee that oversees any unethical practice complaints.

The Truth movement should be made real for the sake of humanity and it's ability for inhabiting Earth.

Originally posted by Aazadan

However, I'm less tolerant of his leaking information of governments spying on other governments. All governments spy on each other and it's a good thing that they do, knowing what is being said internally opposed to in meetings between diplomats leads to stability.

Agreed, but it was neccessary. The fact that he chose to leak these docs about spying on EU diplomats means his options are running out. It (1) Prodded the US gov. letting them know for sure that he had more damage that could be done if they continue to play hardball...refuse to negotiate a fair trial and return to the states....revoke his passport...pressure countries to turn him over...and (2) it was strategic in trying to garner sympathy from EU nations that might otherwise turn him over...if he get them a little pissed at the US Gov. maybe they would be less likely to do the US Gov.s bidding.

Some or most of what he has done falls under whistleblower protections. The very first Congressional inquiry into the Program was 100% validation that it was a warranted leak...if not, then no need for any inquiries by Congress and as it stands thier are dozens of inquiries and an overdue public debate. Not acknowledging his whistleblower status is a big mistake by the US Gov. IMO.

He should face charges and trial...and some of those charges should be thrown out under whistleblower protection...also a pardon is a possibility. It will be interesting if he remains in exile until Pres. Obama's term ends in a few years...Pres. Obama, no longer under the constraints of office might look for a grand gesture like pardoning Snowden. Right now Pres. Obama could not pull it off without derailing his entire remaining agenda.

reply to post by Aazadan


I am telling you...I like this guy! He is sharp...knows how the NSA listens in...knows the methods of those hunting him and uses them to his advantage...Chess...

So you are stuck in Russia..and the US Gov. is hiding in the tall grass...how to flush them out? You need to know which countries the US Gov. have gotten to? Everybody says...come to our soil before you apply for Asylum..but who is just itching to snatch him and turn him over to the USA? What happens once he gets on a plane....Well...let's find out and start eliminating the choices...Snowden knows how they are listening, why not put it out there that he is hopping on a Bolivian Jet with the Bolivian President....A carefully worded note via an encrypted message board he knows they are watching? A code he knows they can break? A call from a generic convenience store cell phone with a few chosen key words he knows they are searching for?

Rumors that U.S. intelligence leaker Edward Snowden hitched a ride on the Bolivian presidential jet forced the plane's temporary grounding in Austria and sparked outrage in several South American countries.

The drama unfurled late Tuesday when Portuguese authorities wouldn't let Bolivian President Evo Morales' plane land in Lisbon for refueling while on his way back from Russia, Bolivian Defense Minister Ruben Saavedra told CNN en Español.

France, Spain and Italy also wouldn't let the plane enter their airspace, Bolivian officials said. Such restrictions would cut off any direct path from Austria to Bolivia.

"We are told that there were some unfounded suspicions that Mr. Snowden was on the plane," Bolivian Foreign Minister David Choquehuanca said.

"We do not know who has invented this lie. Someone who wants to harm our country. This information that has been circulated is malicious information to harm this country."

www.cnn.com...

Portugal, France, Spain, Italy...He can now cross them off the list...Bolivia? Still a maybe...He also knows that they have the tools/protocols in place to snap thier fingers and get foriegn countries to ground and search planes.

He is definetly playing cat and mouse with the NSA...flushing out who is playing ball with the USA and how they will act etc.

Flushing them out of the tall grass..

I gotta say I like him, he's got smarts and balls.

If he tries this ploy again with several different flights it might be enough mayhem for him to slip out via a boat

Still on the table for Snowden...Cuba, Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia...

Outrage in Latin America

Bolivian Vice President Alvaro Garcia Linera described Morales as a "hostage of imperialism."

"The president has been kidnapped by imperialism, and he is being held in Europe," he said in a televised address late Tuesday night. The vice president called for workers worldwide to protest "this act of imperial arrogance."

He said Bolivia would complain about the incident to the United Nations.

The situation drew a swift rebuke from Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patino, who told reporters he planned to call a regional meeting of the Union of South American Nations, known as UNASUR, to discuss it.

UNASUR released a statement Wednesday saying the body "rejects categorically the dangerous act" of denying Morales' plane access.

Cuba's Foreign Ministry also condemned the incident.

"This constitutes an unacceptable, unfounded and arbitrary act which offends all of Latin America and the Caribbean," the ministry said in a statement.

Argentina's President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner described Morales' treatment in Europe as "humiliating," the state-run news agency Telam reported.

S&F for you, citizenx1, nice catch.
Unfortunately, what's happening with Edward Snowden is just a preliminary, a preamble of what's coming to us all, regardless the countries we're living in.
What's REALLY frightening me is that "they" don't even try to hide, to conceal their actions and their intentions; they're working on daylight, without being worried or concerned about the public reactions which mean only one thing: we, the citizens, don't count; in their book, we're non-existent, even with so many public movements around the world.
Judging by the official reactions from many countries, it's clear that, in the minds of TPTB, the "Wikileaks-Snowden type joke" must end. Apart of European governments being publicly horrified when found out that they were spied and tapped (they didn't know that, yeah right!), there is a consensus at global level about the whistle-blowers phenomenon: not a single government is having enough guts to protect either Julian Assange or Edward Snowden and THIS is what scares me the most.

The people around the world have to understand that what's happening in the US is, in fact, a part of the same scenario at stage on a global scale and, unless something really big will happen to stop it, we're marching into a world much, much worse that the one imagined by Orwell in his "1984".
Thinking about that makes me angry like hell; I'm not afraid for me but for my son and for all of the others sons and daughters around the world, forced to live in a kafkian society because WE don't have what takes to stop these bastards.

God help us all.

reply to post by shaukuna

Well what do you guys feel like doing?

Eating (includes the animals eating)
Keeping a roof over my head.
Keeping the power on.
Keeping gas in my truck so I can go to work to afford these things.
Having the weekend to look forward to.