Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

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posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 





I agree with you about the new age, but your idea of the 'one eyed god' being a television or computer screen is hilarious.


HAHA! Glad I put a smile on your face. TV and the computer screen is just of the manifestations, images, or idols of the myopic (distraction/illusion) god (anti-Christ) of the age.




posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by colbe
 





"Nope?" Smiling, no he didn't, Adjensen clearly showed your error in trying to sell Reincarnation. And people can read the beliefs of the first Christians. I posted one, Irenaeus' words and there are others, plural. You go against Christ's teachings not them. Do I have to find the correction of Origen by the Church? It may of been posted already.


Nope. all those Catholic apologetics sites and people claiming that Origen didn't teach reincarnation either forgot to burn or missed Jerome's letter while they were carefully trying to rewrite and revise their own history.

Jerome states that Origen not only taught pre-existence, but reincarnation too. I don't know why the church refuses to acknowledge that truth.

Here's more on when and why the Catholic church changed it's mind on reincarnation and Origen's writings.





All you said doesn't matter. Origin was corrected, he was wrong. He is not the Pope.

The faith DOES NOT teach Reincarnation. Go read the Catechism. We are born once, then we die
and we go to our particular judgment.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Paragraph 1013 Death is the end of man's earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When "the single course of our earthly life" is completed,586 we shall not return to other earthly lives: "It is appointed for men to die once."587 There is NO "reincarnation" after death.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Elo,

I didn't read all your comments but I noticed one sentence at the beginning of your post that is not true.


"Jesus Christ also was created at His conception, He did not eternally exist as His father does."


Jesus Christ is truly God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Son, the Eternal Word, who with the Father and the Holy Spirit always was, is, and always will be.



God bless you,


colbe



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 



All you said doesn't matter. Origin was corrected, he was wrong. He is not the Pope


The pope was not present when Origin was corrected...


Fifth Ecumenical Council: Constantinople II, 553

In accordance with the imperial command, but without the assent of the Pope, the synod was opened on the 5th of May A.D. 553,





posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 04:59 AM
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You cannot blame a young soul, for not realising that there is reincarnation.

All those of old souls have experienced this world many, many times over thousands and thousands of years.

The young souls are ignorant to such truths. They only know what they are 'told' through book teachings, not what they have experienced.

Hence it is like trying to teach a toddler physics.

My favourite analogy is; "Why would you ever need explain to someone who is mentally handicapped, that they are mentally handicapped? Even if you succeed, it will make them no less impaired."

No fruit shall you see bared, from arguing with a young soul that does not understand a Universal existence. It is like arguing with an bank machine, over a bank error. They are just a machine of the system.

The truth of religion shall soon be known to the world.


Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Elo,

I didn't read all your comments but I noticed one sentence at the beginning of your post that is not true.


"Jesus Christ also was created at His conception, He did not eternally exist as His father does."


Jesus Christ is truly God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Son, the Eternal Word, who with the Father and the Holy Spirit always was, is, and always will be.



God bless you,


colbe



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


really?!? you think he threw the fight? i'm not doubting the possibility, it just seemed like a legit knock-out to me and I really don't want to think the UFC is already corrupt. damn...

I didn't do anything to get my past life memories. I just have them. the first one I recall is when I was two years old. I remember singing while all by myself in the woods at night. I had a sword on me. at a later date, I got the impression that I was drunk while singing. I've been obsessed with swords and martial arts since I could walk.

the second past life memory came to me while I was playing in the woods by myself when I was eight years old. I was in a study-type room with tons of books all around. i'm totally obsessed with books.

recently, I've had fleeting images pop into my head at seemingly random times of chemistry lab equipment and paintings and drawings in what seems to be greek or roman environs. these i'm more skeptical about because they've come to me after I've accepted the idea of re-incarnation.

if you're looking for scientific proof that re-incarnation exists, you ain't gonna find it. the current boundaries of what defines science doesn't allow for such things. it is largely subjective. it's like asking for proof that you love someone. show me evidence that a sunrise is beautiful.
edit on 11-7-2013 by ultimafule because: forgot some stuff!



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by colbe
 



All you said doesn't matter. Origin was corrected, he was wrong. He is not the Pope


The pope was not present when Origin was corrected...


Fifth Ecumenical Council: Constantinople II, 553

In accordance with the imperial command, but without the assent of the Pope, the synod was opened on the 5th of May A.D. 553,




LOL Heck, Origen wasn't even present! He had been dead for 300 years and his works had been revered and followed for all that time, before Emperor Justinian and his wife were twinkles in their fathers' eyes.


edit on 11-7-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 





The faith DOES NOT teach Reincarnation. Go read the Catechism. We are born once, then we die and we go to our particular judgment.


And then, we are reincarnated, again.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by colbe
 





The faith DOES NOT teach Reincarnation. Go read the Catechism. We are born once, then we die and we go to our particular judgment.


And then, we are reincarnated, again.


You left off the quote from the Catechism about the fact there is no reincarnation. Your personal opinion is worthless. Do not wait till your death ww, you are gong to stand before God and you won't be able to claim ignorance.

Come along, change. Pray, speak to God from your heart. He will help you see.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by BornOfSin
You cannot blame a young soul, for not realising that there is reincarnation.

All those of old souls have experienced this world many, many times over thousands and thousands of years.

The young souls are ignorant to such truths. They only know what they are 'told' through book teachings, not what they have experienced.

Hence it is like trying to teach a toddler physics.

My favourite analogy is; "Why would you ever need explain to someone who is mentally handicapped, that they are mentally handicapped? Even if you succeed, it will make them no less impaired."

No fruit shall you see bared, from arguing with a young soul that does not understand a Universal existence. It is like arguing with an bank machine, over a bank error. They are just a machine of the system.

The truth of religion shall soon be known to the world.


Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Elo,

I didn't read all your comments but I noticed one sentence at the beginning of your post that is not true.


"Jesus Christ also was created at His conception, He did not eternally exist as His father does."


Jesus Christ is truly God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Son, the Eternal Word, who with the Father and the Holy Spirit always was, is, and always will be.



God bless you,


colbe


Reincarnation is not true and you are wrong about Our Lord Jesus Christ. He is God, Second Person of the
Blessed Trinity. God has no beginning; He always was, He is, and He always will be.

There is, then, this infinite difference between God and us. He has always existed; we have come into existence by His power.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


You do know that catechisms first came from Greco-Roman mystery religions right? There are lots of pagan themes in Christianity, did you know that? Especially in Roman Catholic traditions.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 02:00 AM
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Reading more about this Origen business, none of the Church Fathers believed in Reincarnation, it didn't come up at the Councils.

+ + +

...The Second Council of Constantinople had nothing whatever to do with reincarnation. The main item on the agenda was dealing with the Monophysite heresy, which taught that the incarnate Christ had only one nature (instead of the two natures of deity and humanity as taught by the New Testament and the early church). Either at that council or about that same time a list of "anathemas" or condemnations were issued against (among other things) the notion of preexistence of souls (as found in Origen and some of his followers), but there was no mention made of reincarnation, which was evidently not even a live issue. Indeed, other reincarnationists have even argued that because there is some doubt that the council in 553 had anything to say relevant to reincarnation, there is no reason to regard reincarnation as officially condemned by the church! Of course, what this argument overlooks is the fact that Christians disbelieve in reincarnation because it is antithetical to biblical Christianity, not because they think (mistakenly or not) that it was condemned in 553.

In conclusion, reincarnation was certainly not suppressed by the church in the sixth century or at any other time. It has been explicitly rejected by church leaders since the middle of the second century, and never taken seriously as a belief that might be adopted by Christians. Origen's belief in preexistence of souls was treated as a novel aberration by the church fathers and councils which came after him. Advocates of reincarnation have had to invent nonexistent texts, interpolate words into other texts, cite anti-reincarnationist passages as if they were supportive of the doctrine, and in general present a mythical reconstruction of early church history, in order to claim that the early church ever taught reincarnation. Theories requiring such shaky defense may safely be regarded as false....

www.mtio.com...



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 02:27 AM
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The Trinity is

Bal - Mother - Earth - Love
Anu - Father - Sky/Sun - Power
Ea - Child - King - Wisdom/Knowledge.

If you believe Jesus really existed. You're in a for a rude shock. Cause the truth is going to be known to the world very soon.

If you want to talk about Constantine .. Look back at the fact that he was a money-grubbing Roman who started the church for power.

Quit being so damn stupid and wake up.

edit on 12-7-2013 by BornOfSin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 03:55 AM
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The worship of a dead human being, Jesus Christ, as God, is IDOLATRY.

Jesus delivered a message. Reincarnation is part of that message.

Christians worship the messenger, but don't live the message.

Jesus is a dead human being who is worshipped as a GOD.

The worship of dead human beings as God is PAGANISM!

Ancient Pagan history is full of dead humans being worshipped as Gods.

Get over it, get beyond it, get real.

Jesus is as much a god as Santa Claus delivers toys on Christmas.

And if that's not the truth may I be struck dead!

Well, well, I'm still here!

Jesus is a dead Jew!

He couldn't save himself and you expect him to save you!

He didn't die for your sins, you sap!

Understand the mythology and you'll understand your place in this Universe.

Understand your place in the Universe,

and you will understand Yourself.

As the ancient Greek Philosophers said,

Know Thyself



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


windword,

I was thinking of you yesterday. I offered a rosary for your intention. There is much grace given in praying
Mary's prayer. You don't have to be Catholic to pray the rosary. It takes 17 minutes, you can walk or drive
and pray the rosary. Count 10 with your fingers if you do not have a rosary.

www.rosary-center.org...

windword, speak to Mary in prayer. The Blessed Trinity has given her all graces to dispense. She will help
you believe. Jesus can never say no to His mother, remember the wedding at Cana.


love,


colbe



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Colbe, I'm not Catholic and I don't care what the church says today about reincarnation. They have lied and continue to lie and cover up the truth.

Did you watch the video I posted about how and when the church banned the concept of reincarnation? Did you read the letter I linked in which St Jerome condemns Origen for teaching reincarnation? You're wrong, he did teach reincarnation, Many early Christians believed in reincarnation.

I'm done arguing with you, it's like talking to a brick wall or trying to have a conversation with a video on a loop.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by windword
I'm done arguing with you, it's like talking to a brick wall or trying to have a conversation with a video on a loop.


There are some who would say the same of you.

You already made up your mind and are getting upset that people don't agree with you.

Personally I cannot fathom why you are trying to use the Bible to support reincarnation, for everyone, when you have already decided the Bible is a conspiracy executed by Rome.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by colbe
 


Colbe, I'm not Catholic and I don't care what the church says today about reincarnation. They have lied and continue to lie and cover up the truth.

Did you watch the video I posted about how and when the church banned the concept of reincarnation? Did you read the letter I linked in which St Jerome condemns Origen for teaching reincarnation? You're wrong, he did teach reincarnation, Many early Christians believed in reincarnation.

I'm done arguing with you, it's like talking to a brick wall or trying to have a conversation with a video on a loop.


Reincarnation is a crock, the early Church Fathers never believed in reincarnation. Simple, if it were true, it would be a teaching of the faith.

"They have lied" referring to the Church is all you can say. Oh my gosh and you have it right. Pfffffssss, tee hee. How come you won't share your several reincarnation stories? They should be outstanding, unforgettable. I am waiting, confirm reincarnation with your own experience.

Reincarnation goes against our dignity, free will and Jesus Christ never reincarnated. There is no promise in God's revelation of being reincarnated. There is divine revelation and human testimony for 2000 years of one body, one soul.

Seee...which reincarnated person do you finally end up being for eternity?



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 09:56 PM
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During the period from A.D. 250 to 553 controversy raged, at least intermittently, around the name of Origen, and from this controversy emerged the major objections that orthodox Christianity raises against reincarnation. Origen of Alexandria, one of Christianity's greatest systematic theologians, was a believer in reincarnation.

Origen was a person devoted to scriptural authority, a scourge to the enemies of the church, and a martyr for the faith. He was the spiritual teacher of a large and grateful posterity and yet his teachings were declared heresy in 553. The debates and controversies that flared up around his teachings are in fact the record of reincarnation in the church.

From about 395 to 403 Origen became the subject of heated debate throughout Christendom. These three ecclesiats applied much energy and thought in search of questionable doctrine in Origen. Again the controversy flared up around 535, and in the wake of this the Emperor Justinian composed a tract against Origen in 543, proposing nine anathemas against "On First Principles", Origen's chief theological work. Origen was finally officially condemned in the Second Council of Constantinople in 553, when fifteen anathemas were charged against him.


Christian Reincarnation


Did my infancy succeed another age of mine that dies before it? Was it that which I spent within my mother's womb? . . . And what before that life again, O God of my joy, was I anywhere or in any body?
Confessions of St. Augustine, Edward Pusey, translator, Book I.



A number of Christian Church Fathers believed in and wrote about reincarnation:

St. Justin Martyr (100–165 A.D.) expressly stated that the soul inhabits more than one human body.

Origen (185–254 A.D.), who was considered by St. Jerome as “the greatest teacher of the Church after the Apostles,” defended the idea that the soul exists before the body, fundamental to the concept of reincarnation.

Another Church Father, St. Gregory, Bishop of Nyssa (257–332 A.D.), wrote: “It is absolutely necessary that the soul should be healed and purified, and if this does not take place during its life on earth it must be accomplished in future lives. . . . The soul . . . is immaterial and invisible in nature, it at one time puts off one body . . . and exchanges it for a second.”

St. Gregory also wrote: “Every soul comes into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of its previous life.”

St. Augustine (354–430 A.D.), one of the greatest theologians of the Christian church, speculated that philosopher Plotinus was the reincarnation of Plato. St. Augustine wrote: “The message of Plato . . . now shines forth mainly in Plotinus, a Platonist so like his master that one would think . . . that Plato is born again in Plotinus.”

Other Church Fathers who demonstrated a belief in reincarnation included Synesius (the Bishop of Ptolemais), St. Ambrose, Pope Gregory I, Jerome, St. Athanasius, St. Basil, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, and Clement of Alexandria. (7)
www.iisis.net...



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


The bible is based on SOMETHING, and that is the teachings of a man or group of people called "Jesus" in the bible.

You are so blind to the obvious. Rome was infamous for cultural and religious diffusion. All the pagan themes in the NT and Rome setting up the church and putting the bible together along with their long history of diffusion should make it SO obvious to you by now. But alas, indoctrination and conditioning keeps you blind to it.

You saying god put the pagan themes into the bible in order to show Jesus had mastery over them is only an excuse for you to ignore and throw out the obvious. Rome edited the story and removed almost any mention of reincarnation, and that is an obvious FACT. Sorry you refuse to see it.





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