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Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

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posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


Come on windword, we both know they're not going to read all those quotes, its not worth their time and may actually make them think about what is said in them, and they can't have that, there's a place of eternal fire waiting for them if that happens.


Better to just ignore it in their opinion. They can't risk thinking outside their box.




posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Uhhh I think you missed the part where I said those 'pagan' themes were a reference to the Old Testament where God says he controls the heavens and their movement and challenges one to make the heavens follow their commands.

I never said you have to believe anything.

Trying to discuss this with you would require me to re-quote windword's comments about talking to a wall . . .



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Turning water into wine, walking on water, feeding the 5,000, the Eucharist, and the resurrection have nothing to do with controlling the heavens or their movements.

Dionysian symbolism has nothing to do with the OT, but pagan mythology. Of course though, you acknowledge and ignore the themes both at the same time.


Like I said, you're making excuses to dismiss the obvious.
edit on 12-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Turning water into wine, walking on water, feeding the 5,000, the Eucharist, and the resurrection have nothing to do with controlling the heavens or their movements.

Dionysian symbolism has nothing to do with the OT, but pagan mythology. Of course though, you acknowledge and ignore the themes both at the same time.


Like I said, you're making excuses to dismiss the obvious.
edit on 12-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


Yeah . . . . .

And serpents have nothing to do with Apollo . . . .




posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


I never said Apollo wasn't associated with serpents, I only said that Apollo was never characterized as a serpent.

Dionysian symbolism still has nothing to do with controlling the heavens and their movements.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


I never said Apollo wasn't associated with serpents, I only said that Apollo was never characterized as a serpent.

Dionysian symbolism still has nothing to do with controlling the heavens and their movements.


Symbolism and teachings are very different things, especially in the cases of Jesus vs Bacchus.

I will let Dave Chapelle expound on the mistakes being made in this case.




posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


There you go again thinking Rome would have made Jesus a carbon copy of Dionysus.
Why would they make it so obvious?

Themes in Jesus' stories, namely the miracles, are connected to Dionysus.

Apollo was the god of light and sun, truth and prophecy, healing, plague, music, and poetry.

Jesus said he was the light and the truth, he was the prophesied Messiah, he supposedly healed sick people, he's said to release a plague of locusts in Revelation, and his name is the main player in a piece of poetry called the bible.

Apollo had a twin sister named Artemis who was the god of the hunt, wilderness, childbirth, and virginity. Both Apollo and Artemis are depicted with bow and arrows. Another pagan god with bow and arrows is Cupid, who is the god of love.

Jesus was born from a virgin and told people to love one another. Dionysus was a god of everything to do with non-conventional society (wilderness) and John the Baptist was said to come from the wilderness. Jesus was also said to have a twin named Thomas just like Apollo had a twin, and John the Baptist could be considered a spiritual twin of Jesus since they share many parallels themselves.

The connections to pagan mythology are ALL over the place, yet you decide to ignore them. You ignore them because of religious conditioning.
edit on 13-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Which of these two or both do you think are literal or symbolic?

Jesus saying John was Elijah

or

Jesus saying a man is appointed to die once?

EDIT
I never once ignored the connections to pagan symbolism or mythology . . . Now you are just making things up
edit on 13-7-2013 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Jesus never said man is appointed to die once. You're confusing the book of Hebrews with Jesus' words. Jesus didn't write Hebrews, someone else did.

What's your point exactly?

You don't ignore them, you just acknowledge them then dismiss them, which may as well be ignoring them.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Jesus never said "it is appointed for a man to die once."



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 

Jesus never said man is appointed to die once. You're confusing the book of Hebrews with Jesus' words. Jesus didn't write Hebrews, someone else did.

What's your point exactly?

You don't ignore them, you just acknowledge them then dismiss them, which may as well be ignoring them.


You are right about the quote I was thinking of was;


"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Woe unto you, who are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. The body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is Life because of Righteousness. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my sayings , he shall never see death. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is Life and peace."(Romans 7:24; Matthew 23:27; Romans 8:10; Ephesians 5:14; Romans 8:6)


So now you are upset because I don't agree with your interpretation of the symbolism . . . sheesh.

Spirit, flesh you ignore the distinction made between the two concerning life. You also seem to be ignoring the distinction made between being raised up and the idea of reincarnation.

FYI Jesus didn't write any of the scriptures.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Both the spirit and flesh are dependent on one another, because they both need each other to be of any use.

To be spiritually minded is to know that the flesh passes away but the spirit is eternal. That doesn't mean the spirit doesn't change bodies. To be carnally minded is to believe life ends after this incarnation. It doesn't, you just transform into another body.

Born again is a clear reference to reincarnation because to be reincarnated is to be born again literally. Jesus even says to enter the kingdom of heaven, you must change and become like a child in Matthew 18:3.

The only way for an adult to change back into a child is to reincarnate. Another reference to reincarnation.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Both the spirit and flesh are dependent on one another, because they both need each other to be of any use.

To be spiritually minded is to know that the flesh passes away but the spirit is eternal. That doesn't mean the spirit doesn't change bodies. To be carnally minded is to believe life ends after this incarnation. It doesn't, you just transform into another body.

Born again is a clear reference to reincarnation because to be reincarnated is to be born again literally. Jesus even says to enter the kingdom of heaven, you must change and become like a child in Matthew 18:3.

The only way for an adult to change back into a child is to reincarnate. Another reference to reincarnation.


Now we finally get to the point.

One of many things you and I disagree concerns where/what the kingdom of heaven is. You clearly think the kingdom of heaven is Earth, I on the other hand do not.

Now I am really only expecting persistence on your part in attempting to convince me that I have it all wrong and the only truth is reincarnation because that is what you believe. It will end no different than the disagreement I had with you in another thread. It seems to be a core personality trait of yours that everyone should agree with your point of view, ie you cannot accept disagreement. You will call me blind, ignorant, brainwashed, whatever you need to in an attempt to instill shame to force others to succumb to your will.

Face it we interpret the symbols and allegories differently. You desire a new fleshy body and I view that as being carnally minded.
edit on 13-7-2013 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Heaven is not on Earth, look around you, but Earth IS in heaven. There's a difference.

It's not that I can't accept disagreement, I respect your right to disagree, but that doesn't mean we can't have a debate does it? I say what I think, and I think you are blind in certain areas, as I'm sure you think I am.

Just because I'm giving you my opinion doesn't mean I'm trying to "convert" you.

Also, just because I accept the natural way things work (reincarnation) doesn't mean I am carnally minded. In fact, I am very in-tune with my spirit and am very spiritually-minded. That doesn't mean I have to reject my body or the universe around me though.
edit on 13-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
.
........
Also, just because I accept the natural way things work (reinCARNATION) doesn't mean I am CARNALLY MINDED.


I apologize for interrupting "Above Top Reincarnation".I just thought this was dripping with irony...carry on.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by Rex282
 


Yeah, I noticed that. My point still stands.


Would it be better if I said I believe in spiritual evolution?
edit on 13-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Rex282
 


Yeah, I noticed that. My point still stands.


Would it be better if I said I believe in spiritual evolution?
edit on 13-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


I was just pointing out what would be better is if you want to make a strong statement then eliminate the contradictions with clear terms.





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