Open Carry your pistol - on the 4th of July - Exercise your Rights

reply to post by canucks555


As far as I know, no one said anything about talking a gun to a parade. I'm talking about doing this in my condo complex courtyard while we are cooking and such. We have large open space between the buildings with BBQ grills and lots of people congregate there for holidays.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Do they have any laws in Louisiana about brandishing a firearm? Usually as long as it is holstered the brandishing doesn't apply.

Yes, you cannot brandish the weapon. You can show it to people so they can examine the gun if you like but discretion has to be used. Brandishing is covered under acts such as waving the gun around as if you were going to shoot it.

Originally posted by Druscilla

The point being illustrated was, if OP wants to "protect" or "defend" their family, then, there's certainly other ways of going about it than waving around firearms at celebrations where children are present, where such provocative displays could result in altercations with over amp'd elements of law enforcement, putting family and children literally in the line of fire.

What Cracker Jack box do you people get your reading comprehension from? Sorry Druscilla but I expect better than that from you.

Again, there is to be NO "waving around firearms at celebrations". - Especially in front of children. To a responsible gun owner that is UNTHINKABLE. Did you see the videos? Cops don't mind one bit as long as your not a felon and not doing anything illegal with the gun.

I have a YouTube Video from My Own Parrish Sheriff that talks about Open Carry being legal and they have instructed the cops to comply with the law by letting people exorcize their rights and not harass these good law abiding citizens. The cops actually want people to protect themselves with guns because they know they cannot be there to stop all crime.

If your going to own a gun and open carry, you Must be responsible - most legal gun owners are.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

What Cracker Jack box do you people get your reading comprehension from? Sorry Druscilla but I expect better than that from you.

Again, there is to be NO "waving around firearms at celebrations". - Especially in front of children. To a responsible gun owner that is UNTHINKABLE. Did you see the videos? Cops don't mind one bit as long as your not a felon and not doing anything illegal with the gun.

I have a YouTube Video from My Own Parrish Sheriff that talks about Open Carry being legal and they have instructed the cops to comply with the law by letting people exorcize their rights and not harass these good law abiding citizens. The cops actually want people to protect themselves with guns because they know they cannot be there to stop all crime.

If your going to own a gun and open carry, you Must be responsible - most legal gun owners are.

I do not appreciate the insults and will respectfully request you to refrain from using them.
I've offered no insult to anyone else, so, please, there's no call for that nonsense.

As to the topic, a few youtube videos about a some copacetic encounters with police that could very well have been staged, do not necessarily a fact make.

Police are renown for not exactly making the best decisions at all times, like, for instance;
Police taser 11 year old autistic girl wandering lost and naked on freeway. and then, if you like, feel free to google "POLICE SHOOT UNARMED" and review all the 11,900,000 results (0.37 seconds). I also like how we have examples like Police kill amputee in wheelchair at group home for mentally ill..

Police don't exactly have the best track record for making the best decisions given available data.

Thus, the definition for the term "responsible" is a little suspect here.
Do you really think it'd be a "responsible" thing to open carry any kind of firearm around children in light of some of the stories shared above where police may have been a little too hasty in responding with force way beyond and above the actual threat level of an incident?

In light of the news articles I've seen and read as it applies to police responses, it would seem quite obvious how completely irresponsible and dangerous it could potentially be to provoke potential deadly violent confrontation with law enforcement especially around children by openly carrying a firearm for no other reason than to exercise a right to do so.

Druscilla,

Normally I find your comments to be insightful and intelligent, however on this subject you seem to be willfully inciting hysteria. You keep making outright references to "waving guns around", and it being blatantly irresponsible to have firearms around children.

If people are engaging in responsible and legal open carry it's about a hundred times less dangerous than the sparklers you probably think absolutely nothing of handing to a kool aid drunk 7 year old every 4th! Did you know that traditional sparklers burn at temperatures hot enough to cut holes through hotwheels cars? I did! I learned this when I was 7.... on the 4th of july! On the other hand holstered firearms in the hands of a sober and rational adult is about as likely to cause problems as your barbecue is to randomly start spurting 14 foot tongues of flame towards your children when they come up for seconds on their oscar meyer goodness!

Also I can't help but notice YOU keep referencing alcohol at this barbecue in reference to those who are carrying... I was unaware it was physically impossible to operate a barbecue without imbibing beer or tasty blended concoctions! Funny thing man, I haven't drank a drop except half a malibu and coke last halloween in 18 months! And you know what dru? I've barbecued, oh it has to have been 40 or 50 times in that time period! Not once has a frosty beverage LEAPED into my hand and forced itself past my reluctant lips and let it's sweet alcoholic coolness slide down my unwilling gullet!

Bottom line is you are taking extreme pains to paint this situation in an unjustified negative light because it fits YOUR mental preconception of what someone who believes in open carry would behave like! I'm sort of disappointed in this response honestly.

Open carry is no less of a "provocation" or "willfully irresponsible" and in fact is much MORE tasteful and grounded in sound legal precedent than the levels to which the LGBT communities in cities around the country take "pride parades" on a regular basis! While you may find people exercising their CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHTS offensive, many other people find seeing half naked LGBT's cavorting and engaging in behavior that a parade of straight people would be arrested and PROSECUTED to the fullest extent of the law for engaging in to be equally offensive! (For the record...I find neither open carry nor LGBT pride parades offensive in the slightest as i believe in people's right to be free even if it makes me a little bit uncomfortable, which it doesn't by the way because LGBT's are just humans like me and they want love, affection, attention, and to be accepted or at least LEFT ALONE by those that hound them!) All of the exact same concerns LGBT's have though can also be applied to open carry proponents! They are not, for the most part, bad people or bloodthirsty armchair commandos! They are people that believe they are doing the only thing they know how to stop the slide of the nation they love into tyranny and velvet glove oppression.

In addition I would like to point out druscilla that there are very stiff penalties already in place for people that do use open carry as an excuse to intimidate or, even worse, think they are pistol pete and it's ok to whip out their piece and "give someone a good scare!" And well they should be punished SEVERELY!

But if and UNTIL someone crosses the line it is just as WRONG to punish them for something they MIGHT do as it would be to beat your child because you saw him eyeballing the gummy worms in a covetous fashion and you just KNEW he was considering stealing them!

The bottom line is guns are significantly LESS dangerous than fast cars on a unit by unit basis yet we do not scold people for having their porsche out where a child MIGHT SEE IT!

ANd before you tell me cars are somehow different because guns are MEANT TO KILL.... I will point ou to YOU specifically druscilla that there are over 300 million firearms in private hands in the United States and roughly 10,000 firearms deaths per year.... So either 299 million 990 thousand firearm owners aren't using their weapons correctly OR guns are not just unstoppable killing machines that lust for the blood of children above all others!

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I just hope there won't be beer at this gun toting gathering...Good Luck!!!This party plans of yours totally triggers scary childhood memories of the good ol boys way back then...seems most often than not before my family functions were over someone would drink too much and there would be fights and such...and yes one time my uncles shot each other...wheeeehawww!!! The kiddies gonna love it!!!

reply to post by roguetechie


I'm not quite sure what you're going on about, but, could you please show me exactly where I've mentioned alcohol consumption?

As far as "waving around" firearms, please refer to the tradition of literary caricature to emphasize a point through exaggeration.

Please also refer to the links I've referenced where certain elements of Law Enforcement have shown a penchant for making less than wise decisions.

My over all point is, if someone wants to open carry at an event where children and family are around, I feel such a thing is irresponsible in light of trends in law enforcement behavior.
That should not be a difficult thing to understand.

The firearm owner could be the most responsible person on the planet, but, if they happen to encounter a law enforcement officer on steroids with a chip on their shoulder and PTSD from several military rotations, such an encounter could very well end in bloody tragedy.

A very simple solution to this is to NOT open carry a firearm, or engage in any other conspicuously non-conventional behavior regardless its constitutional protection that might attract the attentions of law enforcement or misunderstanding citizens that might call law enforcement with interpretive details about what they think they see going on.

In other words, don't paint a target on yourself.
Attracting police could very well be just as dangerous as attracting the mafia, drug dealers, terrorists, the Spanish Inquisition, or anything else.

In that respect, yes, I think that making any kind of scene, regardless of how responsibly the scene or act is conducted, by exercising a lawful right protected by the constitution, especially if the exercise of the lawfully constitutionally protected right could be interpreted as threatening, or dangerous, is indeed willfully irresponsible and entirely naive when it comes to any kind of faith in the reaction law enforcement might have and respond with.

Thus, exercising such a right, just to do so, especially around children and family IS irresponsible.
No one can know for sure just how, exactly what police will respond with.

There's a time an place for everything.
If you're out in the wilderness, as described by one member, where coyotes and puma might be a threat, open carry away all you like. You've just cause.
If you have call to go walking around dangerous parts of a city all alone at night on legitimate legal business, open carry away. You've reason to do so.

Doing so, JUST to do so, is irresponsible as detailed above, and certainly many other reasons involving the psychological fitness in making sound judgement calls of the open-carrier as well.

I have a .45 pistol; an old M1911 given to me by my grandfather that he carried in WWII. I open carry it when I go on my wilderness excursions deep off trail, for weeks at a time.
Other times; No. I have no cause or reason to tote a cannon around.
There's a time and place where certain things and behaviors are more acceptable than at others.

reply to post by KingIcarus

also think July 4th is a good time to question what 'freedom' actually means in the globalised world of 2013. I would perhaps suggest freedom is more related to expression than any right to bear arms, but that's another thread entirely. I have no wish to derail the good work of the OP in this one.

i touched on the problem with that in my post. the 4th of july is about how we got our freedoms. one can shout "this is a violation of my rights!!" as long and as loud as they want, but what is that statement worth? nothing. being able to defend your rights is everything.

reply to post by Druscilla

A very simple solution to this is to NOT open carry a firearm, or engage in any other conspicuously non-conventional behavior regardless its constitutional protection that might attract the attentions of law enforcement or misunderstanding citizens that might call law enforcement with interpretive details about what they think they see going on.

yes, that is a simple solution. the easy path. "you have the right to bear arms...but please don't use it, cuz you might get shot by an overzealous police officer".

i understand what you're saying, and it might be "safer" in regards to police, but sometimes making a statement is worth the risk.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


... and as I keep saying, if you're going to do it, just to do it, for no other reason than you have the legal right to do so, don't do it around family and children unless your sense of risk-willingness or complete disregard to risk extends to them as well, in which case, I seriously question anyone's, who does such, spoken motive of "family protection" for owning a firearm.

By all means, gather up your buddies and have an open carry march on town square waving American flags and singing the national anthem. Have a big open carry rally.
Please, just don't do it all of a sudden at a family event without notice, without forewarning, without consideration of what could go wrong.

Responsibility extends way beyond what you can do, or know about gun safety, but, to how others may react to what you do, how you act, or more importantly what they DON'T know about you and guns.

Something else to consider; overzealous ignorant patriots, or vigilantes who might see someone open carrying for no apparent reason without any badge of authority, and consider them a threat to their own family and neighbors whereby a shootout commences.
I mean, what are you going to do if you see some stranger running around your neighborhood with a gun?

Unannounced, unplanned, and/or unorganized, lots can go wrong.

If you're going to do it, just to do it, then, do it officially. March on town square, the mayor's office, the capital building, whatever. Start a million man march of open carry people to whatever locations it's legal to peacably gather for such kinds of demonstration.
I don't think you'll have to worry too much about police macing participants in that demonstration.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I would think that if your in an area that is comfortable with "open carry", in other words, the other folks in and around you celebrating , wouldn't feel uncomfortable, it might work out.


I don't think that is the case though. I think families out and about would not like to see folks with weapons out and about.


I don't think its a good idea if your not in a combat zone.

reply to post by Druscilla

Responsibility extends way beyond what you can do, or know about gun safety, but, to how others may react to what you do, how you act, or more importantly what they DON'T know about you and guns.

i'd rather take the risk exercising a right in a legal manner than risk a future where people are shot simply for displaying a firearm.

we are fast approaching this point. walk around with a gun on your hip, and the police are sure to come. it's completely legal, and one may be conducting themselves appropriately, but police are sure to come. this behavior must be corrected, and the best way to do that is to legally carry guns.

i understand your point about safety in the present (even regarding women and children), yet i do believe that the families in the future will suffer far worse if expressing a right in a legal and responsible manner (pertaining to firearm safety) isn't seen as normal.

The bottom line on this subject is that an unexercised right is a lost right. Government did not grant us the right to bear arms or any other of our rights, those rights are an integral part of the human spirit and no government or man can take that right from you.

However that government can manipulate you into freely and willingly give up that right out of fear of repercussion for exercising that right and that is what we are seeing to day in the US. Too many people are afraid of having to put forth effort and take the risk of exercising their rights.

When you reach that point in a society the battle is for all intensive purposes over and the government has already won.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


I also see and understand what the OP wants to express, as well as understand the whole constitutional rights thing, but, disagree as to the manner and venue.

Make it an official thing. Just as law enforcement are in most cases required to announce themselves on entering a building without invitation, announce yourself to the public. Get your neighbors involved. Get the whole city,town, area you live in involved. Turn it into an event. OPEN CARRY DAY.
Start an internet movement.
Spread awareness.
Get people all over the nation to celebrate and represent on OPEN CARRY DAY.
Research how one goes about getting something turned into a national/federally recognized legal holiday and work toward getting OPEN CARRY DAY turned into a federally recognized holiday. (banks will love yet another day they can have an excuse to be closed, especially where people with guns are walking around).

Walking around all sorts of "surprise! I'm some stranger you don't know and I'm running around your neighborhood like a nut job with a gun for no reason at all", can result in trouble.

Make it official. Call the police yourself and let them know you're going to be open carrying. Announce yourself. Ensure that announcement is documented with 3rd parties. Call your local news station and announce yourself to them.
If you want attention, and you want attention regarding the subject, announce yourself. Make it an event, get EVERYONE involved, and make sure anyone and everyone official knows about it before hand.

I mean, really, what's the point in claiming to be spreading awareness about something if you DON'T spread awareness and do it as loudly and publicly as possible with as many other participants as you can gather participating, and as many official endorsements, including media coverage, that you can garner?

Common courtesy and community norms.

I would think if you live (like the OP said) in a condo community, you would respect your neighbors.

Common areas are for everyone, not just you.

Remember that you are in a community of people. Make sure that you allow yourself to be a good part

of that community by being sensitive and respectful of other people’s space.


That would not be toting guns around on the 4th of July. That would make people uneasy. I would think.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

... and as I keep saying, if you're going to do it, just to do it, for no other reason than you have the legal right to do so, don't do it around family and children unless your sense of risk-willingness or complete disregard to risk extends to them as well, in which case, I seriously question anyone's, who does such, spoken motive of "family protection" for owning a firearm.

Family and Especially Children NEED to learn what responsible gun ownership is about - before the thugs teach them their side of the story. This idea is about helping to make this whole community safer, and the Children Need to be aware of whats happening and by Who. They need to see the difference between law abiding citizens there to protect them with guns and thugs who seek to harm them with guns.

We aren't talking about waving the gun around - remember? We are talking about something that is supposed to be NORMAL and accepted in our society according to the Constitution - Children need to see that openly carrying a gun by law abiding citizens who will protect them is a normal thing to do. They need to know someone is protecting them so they won't grow up afraid of the thugs and live in fear. This will in turn help them to be responsible gun owners if they so choose to own one.

Keep law abiding citizens guns out of sight of children simply because you have some irrational fears is going to harm them more than hiding this normal legal right to protect ourselves we have from them.

Ya know Druscilla, I had an over protective mother growing up. Your starting to sound just like her. I agree everyone should act responsibly while carrying a gun but your wanting children to not even see a gun on someones hip goes way overboard. That wont teach them anything. These children are the Future of our country - if they dont learn responsible gun ownership from those who carry guns lawfully, they will wind up with the thugs and this country will be worse off.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

I also see and understand what the OP wants to express, as well as understand the whole constitutional rights thing, but, disagree as to the manner and venue.

Make it an official thing. Just as law enforcement are in most cases required to announce themselves on entering a building without invitation, announce yourself to the public. Get your neighbors involved. Get the whole city,town, area you live in involved. Turn it into an event. OPEN CARRY DAY.
Start an internet movement.
Spread awareness.
Get people all over the nation to celebrate and represent on OPEN CARRY DAY.
Research how one goes about getting something turned into a national/federally recognized legal holiday and work toward getting OPEN CARRY DAY turned into a federally recognized holiday. (banks will love yet another day they can have an excuse to be closed, especially where people with guns are walking around).

Walking around all sorts of "surprise! I'm some stranger you don't know and I'm running around your neighborhood like a nut job with a gun for no reason at all", can result in trouble.

Make it official. Call the police yourself and let them know you're going to be open carrying. Announce yourself. Ensure that announcement is documented with 3rd parties. Call your local news station and announce yourself to them.
If you want attention, and you want attention regarding the subject, announce yourself. Make it an event, get EVERYONE involved, and make sure anyone and everyone official knows about it before hand.

I mean, really, what's the point in claiming to be spreading awareness about something if you DON'T spread awareness and do it as loudly and publicly as possible with as many other participants as you can gather participating, and as many official endorsements, including media coverage, that you can garner?

edit on 28-6-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

They already have those types of events. Sure they do some good educating the public but the Aim is to get every law abiding citizen to openly carry the gun on them, all the time everywhere they go - like it used to be seen.

We today do not think it's " normal" to see people openly carrying a gun - but thats Not because the Law had changed. People changed. Now People are changing back. First people started to move into large cities. this created a situation where there were too many criminals in densely populated areas. Gun Control was thought as the way to combat this situation - but it has failed every time - only the criminals had guns and the citizens did not have them to defend themselves against the criminals. Back then, people didn't fear a government like we do today because back then government corruption wasn't rampant like it is today. So now, we have two types of criminals to worry about, common thugs and government criminals.

Look at whats happening in Chicago right now.. They have such a problem with crime they are now considering letting it's citizens own guns again - but they are talking about concealed carry. I don't agree with concealed carry at all. Statistics prove thugs do Not Open Carry because they are afraid of being stopped by police. But if Everyone concealed carry then you would not be able to tell the law abiding citizens from the criminals - which would you rather have?

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Ya know Druscilla, I had an over protective mother growing up. Your starting to sound just like her. I agree everyone should act responsibly while carrying a gun but your wanting children to not even see a gun on someones hip goes way overboard. That wont teach them anything. These children are the Future of our country - if they dont learn responsible gun ownership from those who carry guns lawfully, they will wind up with the thugs and this country will be worse off.

You misconstrue my intentions here.
I have no problem with children seeing lawful open carry.
I do, however, have a problem with police showing up and raining bullets on everyone, with children dying as a result, or having to see at least one of their parents basically suicide by cop just because of someone's idiot bravado and fanatic zeal over something they want to make a scene over.

Further, what am I going to do if I see some stranger running around my neighborhood openly carrying a gun?
I'm going to call the police and scream bloody murder that there's some crazy nut job running around my neighborhood with a gun. I'm then going to call all my neighbors and let them know about it and have them call 911 as well.
People running around in polite civilized society have no call to be carrying guns in public.
Some of my neighbors may even get a little zealous themselves about protecting their own, and shoot said stranger running around the neighborhood with a gun for their own safety and peace of mind.

See how that works?

Neighbors shooting neighbors?

As far as children seeing guns, I'd really prefer no child or person for that matter to ever have to see a gun ever.
Let's go back to hacking away at each other with swords. It takes a little more guts and gusto to go at it with someone else if they've got a bunch of pointy steel pointing back at them. If you want to step backward, why not step way backward. We can make sword dueling legal all over again. Settle your differences proper like.
That, however, is just opinion, to which everyone is entitled to have, regardless of how ridiculous it might sound.

You might be happy with citizens running about with weapons all sundry on prominent display like it's a war zone, but, I personally prefer to live in a civilized society where guns aren't needed or even wanted to begin with.

reply to post by Druscilla


Wait druscilla!

Seriously FULL FREAKING STOP!!!

THink about what you just said!

Because someone might react badly we are supposed to voluntarily not exercise our rights?

NO

THat is how rights turn into privileges which turn into outright prohibitions damnit!

No Dru I'm afraid you have this backwards... if anything this very potential for them to react badly to something we are explicitly allowed to do.... gives us EVERY reason to do it even more ESPECIALLY around women, children, families, and friends! You know aka WITNESSES!

Let a cop infringe upon your rights with 25 of your closest friends around... see how long he keeps his badge after you protest vocally but do not escalate the situation and allow him to detain you illegally or otherwise accost you!

Watch it result in, THE DAY AFTER HIS FIRING, the duty seargeant at the start of shift meeting spells it out for every single officer on that shift that people DO have a right to do this no matter how they may FEEL about it!

And.... let's assume the worst happens... not only is the cop insane and unreasonable but the resultant melee claims the life of a child and probably the person carrying the weapon, who if they are intelligent won't even make a move to draw!

Yes bodies will be on the pavement cameras will be there.... REalistically though druscilla freedom is NEVER free!

And liberty is something that someone will ALWAYS try to talk you into begging them to take from you.

By insinuating that because there COULD be an incident where a cop abuses their power because you are utilizing your rights is tantamount to saying you not only don't have this right but also that the state is the final arbiter of ALL THINGS in your life when push comes to shove.

I refuse to live like that, and honestly you are too smart to live like that as well.