"I Am Sorry That It Has Come to This": A Soldier's Last Words

Originally posted by Nevertheless

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
What makes you think they care at all? Haven't "they" already proved time and again that they don't care of moral issues? Only for expanding their own power, wealth and influence. Why would they be empathetic towards anyone not them at all?

It's much easier to gain wealth by not going to war in Afghanistan.

Tell that to the Military–industrial complex with manufacturers like Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, North American Aviation and think tanks planning coming wars like, RAND corporation, Heritage Foundation, Hoover Institution etc.....

Yes, yes, to these people wars in IrAQ and Afghanistan and soon Syria is a disaster. How can they earn hundred of billion of dollars and not feel sympathetic towards people like you, who claim there are much better ways to make enormous amounts of money then waging wars. I am sure they have a PR job open for you if you apply (/sarc)?...

Your very response is a sheer insult in the face of Daniel Somers who bought the lie by these ppl and enforced their dirty work in Iraq. Your ignorance or attemtp to spread ignorance serves the evil that presently dictates the lives of millions of ppl in this country. You should be ashamed.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior

Have you ever talked to an Army recruiter? Alot of them are pretty good. They go to school for it after all. They are basically salesmen for the Army way of life. And I have to disagree with you. It is quite possible for a 17 year old American to be totally naive of the atrocities of war. Especially when you have a real nice army recruiter that takes you to lunch, and tells you all about how easy it is to get promoted, and the college money, traveling, and the benefits and the insurance and on and on with the positives. You will never ever see an Army recruiter say, "Join the Army where you can kill innocent civilians and carry around tampons in your pockets in case you get shot because we can't afford bandages!" In the letter Daniel mentioned ten years a few times. That would mean he enlisted right around when all the craziness with Iraq was getting good and kicked off. I experienced alot in my two years downrange. I bet he did at least four or five and saw even more.

And of course anyone has choices to make. But sometimes you don't realize that. Have you ever felt like you had no choice about something at least once in your life?

Yes, recruiters are more persuasive than most can even imagine. Can you say cult like even? Money - travel - etc. It’s just very difficult for me to believe anyone these days is naive about war. But, your point is taken and I appreciate not only your candor but the tone of your reply.

Yes. I have felt like I had no choices. I don’t think anyone who’s alive has not ‘been there’. But we’re talking about WAR.

Thanks again for your courtesy.

peace

reply to post by silo13


It may seem like its hard for anyone not to know that war is hell.

Its easy for me to see though because there is such a glorification of it in movies, video games and our modern culture in general. I remember being overseas when 9/11 happened and there was immediately a whole influx of new young recruits that wanted to "fight the terrorists." or "kill bin Laden." They had it in their minds that they were protecting america from another attack. As unrealistic an expectation that is. Especially when you consider that most people join up to be support (medics, mechanics, clerks, cooks, etc.) and not combat (Tanks, artillery, infantry.) it is a very reasonable assumption that you can join up and not have to do any fighting or see any bad things happen. At least until 2003 that was a given assumption. Nowadays there's maybe a little more awareness and I haven't looked lately but I bet the Army would have alot more trouble meeting its monthly quota of new recruits if it was'nt for the crap economy and job market right now.

Keep in mind too the spin that the media always puts on the wars. I usually see nothing but stories of soldiers teary eyed feel good reunions and the like. I have never seen a flag draped coffin or a burned baby or a screaming mother on the NBC nightly news.

Also, I can't count the number of people that I met that were in the Army because they were in DEBT. Student loan debts worth thousands that the Army was gonna pay off for at the end of their service. I think I read the other day that the student loan bubble is now about 1.2 trillion dollars. So I doubt they will be seeing a shortage of recruits for those two reasons alone anytime soon.

I'm not trying to harp on to you about it. Just trying to help you understand the mentality of why someone would sign the dotted line. Even if you disagree we can agree to do that.

Originally posted by Nevertheless

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
What makes you think they care at all? Haven't "they" already proved time and again that they don't care of moral issues? Only for expanding their own power, wealth and influence. Why would they be empathetic towards anyone not them at all?

It's much easier to gain wealth by not going to war in Afghanistan.

But then the corporations developing weapons don't make billions from your government.
The intelligence service can't justify spending billions on spying on you.
The oil barons can't manipulate the prices more effectively thanks to their position in the region.
The private security contractors can't make billions from your government too.
Reconstruction efforts can't rake in millions to private corporations from your government.
And, the US doesn't get their little puppet government installed in a region worthy of control.

You only need to look at those who benefited from all these wars to see what they were all about. It's nothing to do with the security of the USA, nothing to do with "freeing people" or "spreading democracy". It's everything to do with moving money from the American people into the hands of government and their corporate partners. You foot the bill for these ways, your young people are also killed in them, and corporate interests alongside your government make billions in profit.

reply to post by johncarter


Death before dishonor. Nuff said. R.I.P.

These stories are beyond tragic. I am with the other other poster in agreeing that they do know what they are signing up for.... but I am not sure they realize the WHOLE of what they are getting into. There really is no way to know how one will react to the taking of another's life until it is is done. We can all guess...but that's all it is. Most of us would not join since all we could do was guess. But others do and for many more reasons than I can know I'm sure.

My heart goes out to the families, especially the children, of these men and women who feel for whatever reason that their life is no longer worth living. This man is sadly just one of many. Even more tragic, is that he will be far from the last that we will see as well. A sane solution would be to stop making wars. Our government is not well known for finding "sane" solutions, so we can only hope that people will cease enlisting so we can stop the madness.

Originally posted by elona
iphone 5s prix

edit on 25-6-2013 by elona because: (no reason given)

I am trying to follow the conversation/thread and your post has thrown me off a bit. Can you clarify what I am supposed to be seeing in your link? Even after it is translated I can't find the relevance?

Originally posted by Nevertheless

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
What makes you think they care at all? Haven't "they" already proved time and again that they don't care of moral issues? Only for expanding their own power, wealth and influence. Why would they be empathetic towards anyone not them at all?

It's much easier to gain wealth by not going to war in Afghanistan.

It is something like money laundry on bigger scale.

Use our tax money to wage war for corporations to make profit by exploiting resources... makes sense now?

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by johncarter

 

And, there is no draft. What was going on in this guys head? ’Joining up’ for military service yet not being prepared to kill?

edit on 25-6-2013 by silo13 because: remove bold

Believe it or not most people join the military because they come from nothing. Most people stay in the military even though they may hate it because they feel they have nothing to go back to if they leave the service. I can say this truthfully after having observed it in my 8 years as a Tanker. There is a whole generation of youngsters craving discipline and direction. Every person who signs up to be a solider is told of their purpose, but every recruiter also downplays the reality of what their lives will become. You can't buy a cup of coffee at McDonald's without seeing 10 disclosures of how hot the thing is, but a 17 year old can sign up to be a living weapon for the war machine. And they're easy pickings because they're so often poor, uneducated, young, and easily exploitable. They're not warriors, they're just the next in a long line of weaker humans

Contrary to many opinions spewed on this forum the vast majority of people that enter Army service are not brain washed COD sociopaths that want to play with your blood. I know that my reasons for joining up were the same as I heard from almost all my buddies. I came from an impoverished family. I had only went to high school. The area I lived in had no kind of jobs or schools. I wanted to get married and be able to provide for my wife and I and then go to school after or during service.

Then I put my head down and counted the weeks while enduring two deployments, constant field training, constant stress and worry that comes with being a slave to the flag sucking Army officers. And when it came time to get out I remember being scared as hell. The retention NCO kept offering to get the McDonalds applications ready for me if I left and I remember really doubting myself because I suddenly remembered something that I forgot the whole time I was busy hating the Army. I had nothing to go back to. I ended up closing out that chapter of my life and moving on but I have personally known so many soldiers who did nothing but bitch and moan about the Army and then when their enlistment contract is over they re-up. I never understood why until my time came.

Of course you are gonna have your gung ho types that are born to be soldiers and don't care about what the actual cause of a conflict is for. That's not how a majority of people think though. Its rare that you hear soldiers remark on things like this themselves. See we as civilians have this thing called free speech. Its being dwindled down but for the moment it is still there. If you are in the service and you speak out against certain things you can be prosecuted legally by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Its much easier to take the path of least resistance and just "suck it up and drive on." Do as you're told mentality.

And until the day comes when you understand the frame of mind of a person who wants to end their life, you will never understand their reasons. I hope that day never comes for you because its a sucky experience. Is it really a wonder for any American that 22 veterans off themselves each day? I guess its easy for an outsider to condemn.

R.I.P. Daniel. I hope you find the peace in death that eluded you in life brother.

edit on 25-6-2013 by Cancerwarrior because: (no reason given)

Amen brother...Amen....I have also gone through that exact same experience !!!

2nd.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior

Believe it or not most people join the military because they come from nothing. ]

Thank you for a well articulated post. Most people simply have no idea of the realities of war - and war today is a whole different kettle of fish then my Daddy's wars.

This is the biggest reason that we do need a draft - to spread service around - any citizen (male or female) must participate - no exceptions (except health ones - perhaps). National Service should be a requirement for all citizens and I believe a prerequesite to admittance to University or College.

I'm ranting now and just wanted to thank you for sharing with us and join you in wishing this young man, and all the other service people who take their own lives, peace and a new beginning.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
Keep in mind too the spin that the media always puts on the wars. I usually see nothing but stories of soldiers teary eyed feel good reunions and the like. I have never seen a flag draped coffin or a burned baby or a screaming mother on the NBC nightly news.

I seem to recall that the media was being blocked by the Pentagon from publishing the photos of those flag draped coffins until 2009.

www.gwu.edu...
m.npr.org...

To the general topic:

I assisted in preventing one young man from going off to these wars. It took an extraordinary amount of convincing him to change his mind as he was young and full of idealistic thoughts. The media and administration at the time were pushing how soldiers were fighting to protect "our American freedoms" on a grand scale and he had entirely bought into that. Just a few years ago, ran into another young man that intended to do the same and was espousing those same thoughts. Talked to him at length as well but what he finally said was that he had no hope for the world anyways so he'd rather go off to die for some ideal even if it was false than nothing at all. Basically, the gist that I got was that he was joining the military to commit suicide. Was a pretty depressing conversation.

reply to post by scoobyrob


I couldn't write a better post about what I feel than yours. He's a hero to me, and when young men enlist they certainly don't realize that their government and nation is an illusion and instead tehy're just the gunmen for the dark hats running the world who deliberately target innocents and commit crimes against humanity. He probably went down the list of alternatives, and court martial and being thrown in a hole without a voice to the public being tortured and sexually abused was probably not a good alternative, so while I certainly don't wish that he committed suicide, he still preferred to die rather than kill innocents, and that makes him a hero.

I have said this before, and many take it as an insult, which it is most certainly not intended to be, but there is an underlying issue here that rarely gets talked about.

The focus on recruiting for our military is place on the BOTTOM 1/3 of our graduating high school classes.

Really think about that for a second.

Now why is it that they focus on that particular group? because they are generally more easily influenced. They, more often than others, feel like their future is not bright. They are often kids that are underprivileged, and want a way out. Many are quite naive.

Many of these kids DO NOT know what they are getting themselves into. Most have absolutely no grasp.

And then we wonder why so many end up with rage, depressed, or worse. You pick to most easily influenced kids, you are picking the kids that will be the most influenced by what they see.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I recall as well. By 2009 though the body count was slowing down and the war was supposed to be "winding down." They say its "over" now but theres still thousands of U.S. troops in Iraq. That makes no sense to me. Why we have bases all over the world makes no sense to me.

Generally though, people that have never been there can only conjecture and imagine what a battlefield is like. There are many aspects to it. I recall my first week in Bosnia a lady in a village close to us was plowing a field and hit an old soviet era tank mine. She survived the blast with only a lost leg. Her mule on the other hand was scattered in peices over prolly a 50m area. Ever police up human/mule pieces before? I found it pretty disgusting. Maybe some of the others did'nt care but thats just one other aspect of any battlefield that is never thought about.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by Nevertheless

 

For who exactly?

Rare earth elements, poppies and energy are the reasons Afghanistan was invaded.

If the number one export of Afghanistan was broccoli then it would not have been invaded.

i was thinking the same thing..many have gained financialy from alfghanistan, lets start with the weapons manufactures/military industrial complex and all under that umbrella
a very sad story though and my heart goes out to the family, as others have posted there should be no illusion on what joining the u.s...or any other military for that matter means..all one has to do is look at history, but easy for me to say..some may feel there arent many options to provide for themselves/family

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I have said this before, and many take it as an insult, which it is most certainly not intended to be, but there is an underlying issue here that rarely gets talked about.

The focus on recruiting for our military is place on the BOTTOM 1/3 of our graduating high school classes.

Really think about that for a second.

Now why is it that they focus on that particular group? because they are generally more easily influenced. They, more often than others, feel like their future is not bright. They are often kids that are underprivileged, and want a way out. Many are quite naive.

Many of these kids DO NOT know what they are getting themselves into. Most have absolutely no grasp.

And then we wonder why so many end up with rage, depressed, or worse. You pick to most easily influenced kids, you are picking the kids that will be the most influenced by what they see.

I can't agree with you more.

Just to tell another little personal story, I remember going to the processing station with a few other guys that were going in and were about my age. When you first enlist you have to take the ASVAB. Its basically an aptitude test and you get a score which determines the jobs you are eligible for. I made a 95 on it and found it to be fairly easy. One of the other guys scored a 11 on it. The highest you can score is a 100 and this guy made a 11. Totally unbelievable when you consider that probability wise just by guessing he should have scored around a 25.

The recruiter told him, "don't worry son, I'll bring you back until you pass it." and the time I was with him was the guys second or third time to take the test.

I got to thinking about that. This guy can't even pass the basic intelligence requirements to even pick up and hold a friggin rifle as an infantryman (which is the lowest thing you can qualify for.) And this recruiter was still trying to push this guy through the system. To me that speaks volumes.

Also, I dreaded the thought of having to be in a foxhole with a guy that makes an 11 on his ASVAB.

reply to post by silo13


It's true. These days, we are lead to believe that with "precision bombs", civilian loss of life is minimized. I guess this is true to a certain extent. It's not like in WWII where for instance, when the British carpet bombed civilian cities in Germany so is to make it difficult to get and go to work building the war machines used against Briton and the the US troops. The Brit's knowingly bombed whole neighborhood to destroy the resolve of the German people to make war.
It sounds like the forces in Iraq and Afghanistan are selectively killing but killing civilians none the less. It's a tough call. I'm sure many many WWII vet's faced the same thing when coming home from Europe and the Pacific. Some couldn't make it then either and surely killed themselves as a direct result of what they experienced. Bottom line, I don't think we are made to kill each other. It's a concept of greed and hoarding that IS human nature but then is translated to violence against each other and focused by a few evil men into "war". At this point, I'm really not sure if we will ever grow out of it. It appears that we have been doing this (war's) to each other for centuries. I believe the only thing that's kept us from really having more wars is the nuclear capabilities and devastating power of these types of weapons. If not for them, we probably would have experienced foot soldiers on US soil by now.
To say "if it's too hot..." doesn't really address the situation. Man's inhumanity towards man is the b***-breaker. If we can't learn our way around that, I fear we are all doomed.

Donovan pegged it with "universal soldier". If you put on the uniform you are agreeing that Killing is OK, whether it be a child, a woman or yourself.

It's a pointless, meaningless Dream of death that has no basis in Reality. Why are you participating in it? Because you think death is going to end YOUR suffering! Go ahead. It's not like you haven't done it a thousand times already. And SURPRISE,SURPRISE! your still here and you are still just yourself.

Time to wake up.

"War is Hell"......Gen Patton.
I dont think people ever realise what the man meant by that.....
The victims are so many and various...............that few can envision the scope of those three words.
I believe them to be of the most cogent and accurate decriptions ever devised ,......

Second only to Gen. Butlers four word description of the same.....
"War is a Racket"

My Condolences..........s

Does anyone know what true honor is?

Seppuku wiki
Bushido

This man followed the Way of the Samurai, possibly without even knowing.

He may have had shame for his transgressions, but he hath redeemed himself.

Under the bushidō ideal, if a samurai failed to uphold his honor he could only regain it by performing seppuku (ritual suicide).

He has regained his lost honor.

In the world of the warrior, seppuku was a deed of bravery that was admirable in a samurai who knew he was defeated, disgraced, or mortally wounded. It meant that he could end his days with his transgressions wiped away and with his reputation not merely intact but actually enhanced.

Originally posted by silo13
My opinion? If you can’t take the heat - don’t become a cook. Or something like that.

Or would that be, "If you can’t take the heat - don’t become a crook."

Thing is, silo, is that many of these young folk have grown up with the MSM and blind patriotism as their guide. They don't know until they get there what the true story is.

As a young recruit, I was all gung-ho to serve my country in action. The reality was---character and true patriotism mean something very different to some folk. To others: It's a shallow thing...much like your viewpoint.