China gazes at the stars while the U.S. falls in the gutter?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Arnie123

 

I'm not quite sure how I'd see it as fear mongering. NASA's entire combined budget is under $20 Billion and getting hacked a bit more each year. Private companies can play truck driver to deliver satellites but I'm not aware of any that are actually ...in a real doing it sense.... moving with a near term eye beyond Earth orbit and perhaps out to mars. Manned missions. Not flying R2D2's with lower technology.

It in a sense it is fear mongering, the thread simply points out our deficiency in terms of technological progress that obviously points towards the number one point, the surpassing of of our military too.
To say that private companies are only "trucking" is a bit naïve too, clearly this privatized firms need a financial base of operation, what better way to "truck" cargo into space for financial compensation that will only lead to RnD and greater goals for space exploration. Time, time is needed for grander goals, R2D2's lower technology will one day be Galactus, eater of worlds in terms of technological sense.

That does concern me. As it stands, the US is doing enough to maintain a point of stability for ongoing programs, IMO, but little more in leap frogging beyond. I find it interesting and a bit disturbing at how radically underestimated China is by so many people.

Its not a matter of underestimating, we all have seen the US when backed against a wall explode into frenzy of unheard of industrial might. I can't speak for the current time, but then again we hadn't faced an adversary like japan in WW2 since then. Yes china is moving forward, but that steam is slowly fading away...

China has literally 4x's our population.Their 'migrant' working population alone, between fields and cities was around 300 million when China Inc. was written in 2006. (Where I read the figure). That's just under our entire national population in the US. They've come in 10-15 years what it took the industrialized world about 50 years to accomplish for progress in economy, industrialization and infrastructure. They're a little powerhouse.

Little powerhouse? you got that right...and about that size it will stay too. Yes their population is larger than us, but that doesn't mean jack if the people are under paid and nationalism is dead in the water, back in the day, people in the US had pride in our work, from WW2 to the space program. China? you say they took 10-15 years to accomplish what we did in 50? BECAUSE THEY STOOD ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS!!! of course its easy to say that, had their been no help at all, how long you think then? that 50 years is sure looking mighty right about now. That "Little powerhouse" is again, loosing steam in the near future. check out the stats yourself.
thediplomat.com...

Little to no debt on the National/State level (They have a whopper coming in the private side of their private / government partnerships for credit and debt but not the Government like we do.) They can pay off their own debt with plenty of surplus left to the cash reserves they currently sit on. (I think wistfully of a time the US still could have someday held reserves like that...trillions of dollars and a couple Presidents ago.).

True, but for how long? not only is its working population will be soon declining, but their economy is radically slowing down too. Don't forget, china has copied western economics to a tea, it starts off nice, ends..well you already know how that is going to end, huh?
online.wsj.com...

I don't mind if they do take the lead and get it done either. All the better. I don't really think of us as nationalities beyond Earth Orbit. It's not Chinese or Americans. It's Terrans....and a concept I think the public ought to warm up to. Just my two cents. Nations matter a ton down here, but it's all one big human species up there, IMO.

I agree with you on this, we are all terrans. unfortunately even Chinese have dreams of making the world china, think of it, you don't mind if they do take the lead, right? and when that happens, how long you think before that influence starts to take shape? the territorial expansion? with that sizable populace, that's a lot of soldiers in one sitting. NO, they cannot take the lead. Together, perhaps.
If the populations of earth are reduced 80% then maybe, MAYBE our perception of us working as one might work, as you say, a Terrain mindset.

reply to post by Arnie123


Bud China have the fastest super computer in the world. The satellites they are putting into space are leaving the US sitting.. Think what you will That is the truth..

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Arnie123

 

Bud China have the fastest super computer in the world. The satellites they are putting into space are leaving the US sitting.. Think what you will That is the truth..

Yea, I think not "bud".
The "fastest super computer"....in the world!! *gasp* one of many rules, don't be so naive to believe EVERYTHING.
So "Bud" check out this link, www.businessinsider.com...
And then you can go back to you chinese...lol, "Super", lol, computer...LMFAO.
SECONDLY, for you to say what satellites we have and don't have makes you privy to some high clearance information, you a whistleblower? Yea did'nt think so, another rule of thumb, don't show your best cards. You have no idea whats up there, niether do I, but I bet a months pay, its technologically ahead of what other people are putting up there, if not corporate, then military.
Think what you will That is the truth..

NASA's budget has been pretty stable at about an average of around 14 billion dollars for decades, the budget has only had minor cuts and is currently at 17.8 and cuts will only reduce it to around 17.7 billion where it'll stay for a few years.
NASA's budget is by far the largest of any countries space program and has been the largest for decades.

People really need to stop treating NASA like some poor broken project desperate for funding because it really isn't the truth at all, in fact with the space shuttle project gone NASA should be able to do far many more things than it has been able to do in decades, along with contributions from the rising private aerospace industry, NASA will be in a position to do far more than what was possible during the space race with far less effort or cost, America is hardly falling into the gutter when it comes to space.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


I agree, we do need to work together as one species, however the only thing that will ever unite all of mankind is an alien invasion, I use to think that one government is very wrong, I now honestly believe that its in the thing that will save mankind.

Both China and Russia lack situational awareness in Space....due to a lack of satellites in orbit to be looking around to know what's going on.

Both are getting their attempts to put things in orbit...thwarted and now lack the ability to put things in orbit.

We've been inventing "micro-satellites" and put them in front of their existing satellites...so we can intercept what they are transmitting.

Plus that little Air Force space shuttle thingy's been flying awefully close to their satellites.......tag them with some black spray paint and the sun will overheat them......that little toy's been doing some pretty interesting vandalism in space....

Why?.....because they can. China and Russia lack situational awareness in Space. Plus they lack things between their legs to push the nuclear button after their expensive toys were destroyed by us.

China & Russia.....wimps.

Originally posted by wissy
reply to post by shaneslaughta

 

I agree, we do need to work together as one species, however the only thing that will ever unite all of mankind is an alien invasion, I use to think that one government is very wrong, I now honestly believe that its in the thing that will save mankind.

No we don't. We need to shun the US, and rebuild what you have destroyed over the last 6 decades.

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Originally posted by peashooter
reply to post by LeatherNLace

 

Don't you have to pay off your student loans and debt first though?
www.theaustralian.com.au...

edit on 14-6-2013 by peashooter because: (no reason given)

Yes (if one has a student loan), but they get the minimum. At the pace I am headed towards, they will get the full sum of my loan returned in about 2080; well after my death. Of course, they will have been paid 7+ times more than they ever loaned; nonetheless, I will pay them at the minimum monthly payment FOREVER. [/
]

You really need to run a loan payment calculator. I was in the same position with my credit card - basically the bank had something called PPI (Payment Protection Insurance). During the time I was only able to make minimum payments, any time my parents tried to help me by paying down some of the debt, the bank actually started raising my interest rates and the PPI payments started being increased. They even had the nerve to raise my credit card limit to accommodate the increasing outstanding amount. Ultimately, all of my minimum payments were just covering the debt. It wasn't until I was able to go abroad and get some real money, that I was able to start paying off the debt. Fortunately, I was also able to file a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman, and they ordered to bank to pay back around £12000. Debt cleared off, but it held me back for 5 years or so as I wasn't able to buy a new PC or attend training courses.

Between 1959 and 1969, the United States (via NASA and others) undertook three space projects: Mercury, Gemini and Apollo. Over that same span of ten years, three different four different spacecraft were designed, tested and flown with success: the Mercury capsule, the Gemini capsule (once referred to as Super Mercury), the Apollo capsule/command module and the LEM (Lunar Excursion Vehicle) lunar lander. These were launched on several rockets... Redstone, Atlas, Titan II, Saturn 1B and the Saturn V, with the latter applying the largest, most powerful rockets ever designed.

Ten years, we went from nowhere to the moon.

Of course, there was a cold war and after Kennedy's assassination, his vision of going to the moon before the end of the 1960s took on even more meaning. But, still and all, it shows what can be... and even today, could be done if we had the vision and leadership.

As it is, the newer heavy lift rockets being developed may or may not be available for actual use before 2020. The Orion capsule has been shot down, refinanced and redesigned so many times that it looks like a DoD project. Private space flight enterprises were humming along until funding was reduced.

Bush shot down the shuttle and started us on an extended return trip to the moon. Obama shot the moon trip down as well as gutting out what was left of NASA. Congress lit the fire under the BBQ and now the agency is left to hitch rides from Russia.

China has vision and they have drive. The US has nothing but a nappy bag of hope that someday, an American will again ride on an American rocket, in an American ship into space.

Oh, and we have that gorgeous new NSA facility as well.

reply to post by Arnie123


Hey bud..
I stand by my statement the Chinese have the fastest computer in the world. They shattered the previous record..

In the tests, the Tianhe-2 managed an impressive speed of 30.65 petaflops, which makes it 74 percent faster than the previous holder of the World’s Fastest Computer record. A petaflop, for the curious and unsure, equals one quadrillion – a million billion – floating point operations per second, also known as… a lot Read more: www.digitaltrends.com... Follow us: @digitaltrends on Twitter | digitaltrendsftw on Facebook

www.digitaltrends.com...

Dont think they are sitting easy on the quantum computing either..

China Unveils Secret Quantum Communications Experiment

the team has purposely elected not to publicize the outcome of the experiment for at least three years. But keeping the news under wraps might make perfect sense, given the group's imminent goal—revealed in the last few details of their paper—to launch the first Chinese quantum science experiment into space. The spacecraft, called the Chinese Quantum Science Satellite, will launch by 2016 if all goes according to plan. Learn More encryption

spectrum.ieee.org...

As for all those elusive military satellites you talk of..

China’s rocket launch sparks US fears of ‘anti-satellite weapons

China has test-fired a new long-range rocket capable of destroying orbiting satellites, according to American intelligence assessments. The launch of the interceptor, which reached an altitude of more than 6,000 miles, could pose a serious threat in the future to America’s military communications in the Asia-Pacific region.

www.thetimes.co.uk...

Technology can be an achilles heal if you rely to much on it..

Originally posted by FromMyColdDeadBrain
While China surge ahead in leaps and bounds in ...

The danger with this type of thread is that the poster has probably never travelled out of his/her hometown!

The fact is that the average Chinese is poor in comparison to their peer in the West. China is a developing nation and not an advanced nation on a par with the West. It may be difficult to understand the rural poverty in China, but it exists and hundreds of millions of Chinese are those people.

Too much listening to Chinese propaganda. China are experts in hiding their situation. If they can fool millions of Chinese then they will have no difficulty fooling outsiders.

Regards

reply to post by namehere

NASA's budget has been pretty stable at about an average of around 14 billion dollars for decades, the budget has only had minor cuts and is currently at 17.8 and cuts will only reduce it to around 17.7 billion where it'll stay for a few years.
NASA's budget is by far the largest of any countries space program and has been the largest for decades.

When we're still well in excess of 600 BILLION (Over a half trillion) dollars annually to the Department of Defense (might as well name it back to the traditional 'War Department' it used to be for a name), no one in the world is going to tell me the pittance we give NASA shows a serious commitment to Space as the future it represents for mankind.

Almost EVERY program of promise and holding potential when Barack Obama took office has been canceled, delayed to absurd levels or just outright forgotten about. Space and anything above his own ego is not among Obama's priorities.

First we threw away our own ability to reach orbit with anything but the US Air Force's secret X- programs while our leaders babbled B.S. about how Russia was our buddy and pal so we shouldn't care.. We can always hitch a ride with them! Now? Well.... Not so hot a thing there. Not at all. Whats the status on Orion and the other efforts? Yeah.... Kinda D.O.A. given any timeline they'd been expected to be near by this point in time.

I don't care what relative costs are to other nations in the world. We aren't other nations while we spent trillions every year on garbage while neglecting what may someday be the only future this species has left. It's criminal.

reply to post by purplemer


24MW to power a system that operates at that speed for a short period of time. LMFAO, do yoo know anything about computers? How long you think a system could operate under that load? American based systems are not like our automobile industry, we have systems that can oprate at sustained levels in the petaflops, if our best is 17 PF on paper, what do you really think we have thats not being said? Again, don't be so naive.
Quantum communications? Under wrap for 3 yrs? sorry bud, quantum computer was already there, FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS. their is a thread here in ats on that very subject.
Your old news, along with china playing catch up. Thier "Super" computer is by no means impressive. Regardless, that binary system, yes BINARY, however "Super" it is, still does one calculation, JUST REALLY REALLY FAST.
As for chinas missile test....AND??? We demostrated our abilities to not just a stationary satelite, but an incoming one on a variabled path and still got it spot on!! Thats like pinning a fly with a dart...blindfolded. Trust me, china can't pull that off, the US being alarmed, not out of fear, but to the facted that if its got that capability, it could destabilize the asia pacific region under chinese expansionist view on what it thinks its territory is.
Sorry bud, but again, you fail. Like china...who for one stands on the shoulders of giants.
Before you start to huff an puff to blow this US brickhouse down, know this, chinas people are suffering for these meager accomplishments, underpaid, poor, declining population, zero nationalism, the country is headed to civil war.
*Face palmed purplemer* pwned.

Originally posted by freedomSlave

Originally posted by relocator

It's an interview by Neil Cavuto with Former Apollo Astronaut Gene Cernan who talks about ‘We Are Becoming a Second-Rate Nation’

lol becoming... i think it already happened long ago .

Would you suggest China is a first-rate nation?

Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by FromMyColdDeadBrain
While China surge ahead in leaps and bounds in ...

The danger with this type of thread is that the poster has probably never travelled out of his/her hometown!

The fact is that the average Chinese is poor in comparison to their peer in the West. China is a developing nation and not an advanced nation on a par with the West. It may be difficult to understand the rural poverty in China, but it exists and hundreds of millions of Chinese are those people.

Too much listening to Chinese propaganda. China are experts in hiding their situation. If they can fool millions of Chinese then they will have no difficulty fooling outsiders.

Regards

China has about 800 million that live on 30 bucks a month, vast majority can not afford their "free" healthcare. Give China about 10 more or less years and they will internally collapse due to 100 of millions wanting more out of life than to work 16 hours every day for basically nothing.

99% of Communism is all propaganda...

reply to post by Arnie123


Bud you can think what you want I really do not mind.. As my nan liked to say you can take a horse to water. But you cannot make it drink...

I will however say this. Apathy has destroyed many good nations. If you keep thinking you are so good you will fall behind. China is delivering.. Go and read the story of the hare and the tortoise having a race.

With over a 1/5 of the worlds population and an average higher IQ than the states I personally would not be so complacent..

Have you ever been to China.. Parts of it are truly awesome. Its not the little backward country your news channels might like to convey it as. Come to think of have you even left your own country...

and how the heck can you say China is standing on the shoulders on Giants.. Drop the ignorance and have some respect...Chinese roots can be traced back between 8000-10,000 years! How far back can you trace your ancestory..

Where do you think the Industrial Revolution would be with the likes of gun powder and the printing press.. Both have been in China a long time..

lol and you *Face palmed purplemer* pwned at the end of your post.. Bud you just lost the internet..

Originally posted by Arnie123
reply to post by FromMyColdDeadBrain

 

leaps and bounds with supercomputers??? Um the US already has proven its uses in Quantum Computing.
Space? sure we have mothballed our own space program, but with the rise of US based private space exploration, we hardly need a ride with the Russians anymore, in fact, the US AF has already secured contracts with private space firms to get their gear up in space.
This will all amount to something in the near future. China isn't anything to worry about, chill out on the fear mongering.

This sort of reinforces my belief that corporations run our government from behind the curtain. The problem with that is there's no high minded direction. All decisions are based on what's best for profits that benefit the few.

Originally posted by goou111
Talk to me when they land a car on mars and drive it around beaming back hi resolution pics for everyone to see..

Maybe I'll be impressed

Yeah, we sure are in the gutter alright. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Arnie123

 

Bud you can think what you want I really do not mind.. As my nan liked to say you can take a horse to water. But you cannot make it drink...

lol, I know what you mean, two intelligent people have a mild debate, that's the whole basis of these forums and we definitely act the part, so congrats!, yea you sure can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink....THEN AGAIN you can add some apple juice or cider and VIOLA!! so go ahead and take a big gulp of this grade A American water bud!!! because I'm going to bust out a tall glass of.......

I will however say this. Apathy has destroyed many good nations. If you keep thinking you are so good you will fall behind. China is delivering.. Go and read the story of the hare and the tortoise having a race.

True that bud, it sure has, but I don't think I'm so good at all, its not my kind of mindset, I'm simply seeing it for what it is, actually now that you bring it up, it seems china has that same posture with a lot of things, including there so called emerging markets, Apathy has destroyed many good nations, after all...., China is delivering, America HAS delivered and will continue to do so as the worlds leading nation in innovation, I'm mean, china leads the world in cheap knockoffs,
consumerist.com...

With over a 1/5 of the worlds population and an average higher IQ than the states I personally would not be so complacent..

Yea I challenge that and would like a link on those stats, not to mention with such a large population, don't be so naïve to think that its entire population is currently applying its total brain output, AT THE SAME TIME, TO ACCOMPLISH A TASK, it just isn't so. Its hard NOT to be complacent, every nation at the top of the food chain naturally reaches that point, IF AND WHEN china reaches that point, they do will suffer from the same complacencies.

Have you ever been to China.. Parts of it are truly awesome. Its not the little backward country your news channels might like to convey it as. Come to think of have you even left your own country...

No I have never been to china, your absolutely right though, pictures that I have seen are truly beautiful, I hardly watch the news on TV, trust me on that, but I know better and give credit where credit is due, china can be beautiful, well in the country side, after you get past all the smog, pollution, industrial powerplants....
Yes I have left my own country. I have been to Japan, Korea, both western and eastern seaboards of the continental US, including Alaska and Hawaii, OH and I can't forget about mexico!! yes I am military and afforded the opportunity to travel to locations people save up their whole lives for.

and how the heck can you say China is standing on the shoulders on Giants.. Drop the ignorance and have some respect...Chinese roots can be traced back between 8000-10,000 years! How far back can you trace your ancestory..

Where do you think the Industrial Revolution would be with the likes of gun powder and the printing press.. Both have been in China a long time..

It is what it is. you can deny ignorance but the respect is there. Yes I know china has been around for quite along time, they ONCE had a great empire of the ancient world, too bad, too sad, all that has been was once was, is no more. I'm native American, so I can trace only so much of my ancestry, but you can't blame these people for not being around as long as the Chinese, that would be ignorant!!....as a matter of fact, a lot about America's true history before the founding of this continent is shrouded in mystery with new and emerging evidence that their could have been great empires on this continent then previously known and possibly bigger than china with native Americas as a result what was left after a great cataclysm.
I wouldn't say china invented the printing press, they didn't, but more of less had developed a method of copying text from one medium to another, it wasn't till a german dude came along and combined the method with ingenuity and came up with the first "Printing Press"
inventors.about.com...
As for gun powder, well they did invent it, no argument there, the US as well as other nations benefit largely from that, the same could be said about the internet, who developed the first networks for it? you already know the answer to that.

lol and you *Face palmed purplemer* pwned at the end of your post.. Bud you just lost the internet..

lol, very nice, but I can't loose the internet, maybe my network, but not my internet. *DoubleFacePalm to purplemer*

This sort of reinforces my belief that corporations run our government from behind the curtain. The problem with that is there's no high minded direction. All decisions are based on what's best for profits that benefit the few.

True, but can you really apply that towards private space firms? I mean the premise after all was lead by inspirations to get to space without the need for government, the average joe wanted to reach the stars and reach he did. I understand where you are going with this, but in this case, No.