World Ships

This was started in another thread but I thought it needed a thread of its own.

We are talking about HUGE (city size or larger) World Ships that roam the universe and never land. Thr ships ARE the "Planets".

These people would not be tied to the life cycle of a planet or sun so their race might be MILLIONS of years old.

I think it would be the next step in evolution.

Here is where we left off...

Originally posted by markjaxson
The only problem would be water, the only way i can think of is to recycle, i dont know how good we can recycle water currently to healthy standards but this seems the only way.

The solar system is full of water some of the moons have more than earth so water would be rather easy to get from Moons, Comets, etc. Hydrogen for fuel is one of if not the most common element in the universe so really there is no reason this could not work.

Even the metals needed could be mined easier from Astroids than a Planet.

We might be on to some thing here

But wouldn't the ships have to land or be close enough to somehow mine the water off? That could be a problem...

Unless it would be done Spaceball-esque, by turning the ship into a maid with a giant vacuum cleaner!

your in space forever! FOREVER! there is no gravity there is no limit to how much you can hold

Originally posted by Mizar
your in space forever! FOREVER! there is no gravity there is no limit to how much you can hold

But there is a limit to how much mass your engines can move.

It was once believed that this 'world ship' idea would transport people to very distant worlds in which the future desendents of the ships inhabitances would colonize.

But technology would progress at a rate at which we would be able to reach the 'world ship's' destination before they did.

The world ship idea is interesting though.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
But wouldn't the ships have to land or be close enough to somehow mine the water off? That could be a problem...

Not really, most comets are just HUGE balls of dirty water, you could just pull up beside it and send big "tankers" out to get the water, metals, elemets, etc.

I think the hardest problem would be gravity, we need some of it to keep our bodies bones and mucles strong. That shouldnt be to hard to work out and a race Millions of years probibly can "control" gravity.

Originally posted by UK Wizard
It was once believed that this 'world ship' idea would transport people to very distant worlds in which the future desendents of the ships inhabitances would colonize.

The whole point is their not going to colonize ANYWHERE. The ship would be their "planet" and everyplace would just be places to gather resources

well if you in space foreer whats the point of gravity? i mean just let it be gone and let the species evolve to a no grav enviorment

Originally posted by Mizar
well if you in space foreer whats the point of gravity? i mean just let it be gone and let the species evolve to a no grav enviorment

This would be possible I think with a little DNA help but for now we need it. Our Bones start to go after just a short while and it affects more than just your bones it also affects your heart and other organs I will try to get more accurate info and post it

Heres what Nasa has to say

aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov...

[edit on 7-11-2004 by Amuk]

Originally posted by Amuk
Not really, most comets are just HUGE balls of dirty water, you could just pull up beside it and send big "tankers" out to get the water, metals, elemets, etc.

Or, better yet, since the ship would be so massive it may be able to affect the objects in space around it. This could cause the comets or other debris to collide with it. I'm sure something could be created "catch" whatever was colliding with the ship so it could be used for resources.

Also, as for gravity: If the ship were built as a sphere (how i'm imagining it) the most dense stuff could be placed in the middle. The water, for instance. If there was enough, it could help create some sort of gravity. Of course, there'd have to be a heck of a lot of water!

We already have a "type" of ship that is probably the most basic of a possible "World Ship" that would float in space.

Many of you have probably heard of it, but for those of you that dont heres a brief.

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Freedom Ship

18,000 living units, with prices in the range of $180,000 to $2.5 million, including a small number of premium suites currently priced up to $44 million.
3,000 commercial units in a similar price range
2,400 time-share units
10,000 hotel units
A World Class Casino

A ferryboat transportation system that provides departures every 15 minutes, 24 hours a day, to 3 or more local cities giving ship residents access to the local neighborhood and up to 30,000 land-based residents a chance to spend a day on the ship.

A World-Class Medical Facility practicing Western and Eastern medicine as well as preventive and anti-aging medicine.

A School System that gives the students a chance to take a field trip into a different Country each week for academic purposes or to compete with local schools in numerous sporting events.

For example; The Freedom Ship High School Soccer team plays a Paris High School team this week at home and an Italian team next week in Italy, while the Freedom Ship High School Band presents a New Orleans Jazz musical at a concert hall in London.

An International Trade Center that gives on-board companies and shops the opportunity to show and sell their products in a different Country each week.

More than 100 acres of outdoor Park, Recreation, Exercise and Community space for the enjoyment of residents and visitors.

Heres a few links.

www.freedomship.com...
travel.howstuffworks.com...
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If the owner of this website (Freedom Ship) had enough money no doubt this would be built, but the greedy "world powers" would rather war, and ignore this sort of human advancement, if the government had interest theres no reason why something like this could be changed and shot up into space.

Now i know this is not a "World Ship" that can be used in space at the moment, but add a few propulsion units to it, send it off into space and wallaah.

A space city in the making!

This is just to verify that we already have plans and dedication for something identical to what we are discussing.

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Mizar
well if you in space foreer whats the point of gravity? i mean just let it be gone and let the species evolve to a no grav enviorment

This would be possible I think with a little DNA help but for now we need it. Our Bones start to go after just a short while and it affects more than just your bones it also affects your heart and other organs I will try to get more accurate info and post it

Heres what Nasa has to say

aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov...

[edit on 7-11-2004 by Amuk]

I remember watching some show on the discovery channel that said humans might be able to genetically engineer themselves to live in low grav environments. Their organs and bones wouldn't deteriorate. The show said they might also do away with pointless appendages.....like feet. There was a creepy animation of a man with arms where he legs were and hands instead of feet.

As to the neccesity of a worldship for interstellar travel....I don't think that FTL travel is quite as far as many scientists think it is. When I hear "experts" saying its impossible to travel between the starts because it will take too long I think back decades to the "experts" who said going to the moon was impossible, and before that breaking the sound barrier was impossible, and before that flight was impossible, and before that the earth was flat...on and on.

There are multiple ways to get from "here to there" relatively quickly. For examples of this I'll. recommend the book Interstellar Travel: Past. Present, and Future, by John W. Macvey. It's probably one of my favorite books.

I overlooked the ISS which is the begginings of a World City.

This is what would be needed for a World City also.

How the ISS Works
To sustain a permanent environment in outer space where people can live and work, the ISS must be able to provide the following things:

life support
atmosphere control, supply and recycling
water recycling
temperature control
food supply
waste removal
fire protection
propulsion - move the station in orbit
communications and tracking - talk with ground-based flight controllers
navigation - find its way around
electrical power
computers - coordinate and handle information
resupply - methods of getting new supplies and removing waste
emergency escape route

science.howstuffworks.com...

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This is just two main life support excerpts from the site.

Oxygen

Our atmosphere is a mixture of gases -- 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, 1 percent other gases -- at a pressure of 14 lbs/in2 (1 atm). The ISS astronauts will need a similar atmosphere.

To achieve this, oxygen and nitrogen will have to be supplied:

The Russian Elektron generator will make oxygen by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen (electrolysis).

Solid fuel oxygen generators or oxygen candles will be burned to make additional oxygen, if required.

The space shuttle or Progress supply ships will bring nitrogen from Earth, and store it in external tanks on the station.

In later phases of construction, external tanks will supply oxygen; these tanks can be refilled by the space shuttle. In the final stage, an additional electrolysis oxygen generator will be added to the station.

The pressure control assembly (a system of pumps and valves) will mix the nitrogen and oxygen in the right percentages, monitor the atmospheric pressure and depressurize the station when necessary to prevent overpressure or to extinguish a fire during an emergency.

And Water.

Besides air, water is the most important element aboard the ISS.

Initially, the space shuttle and Progress supply vehicles will bring water from Earth. On the ISS, water will be highly conserved.

There will be no long, luxurious showers. In fact, most astronauts get by with sponge baths.

The water recovery and management subsystem will collect, recycle and distribute water from various sources including:

Sink
Shower
Urine - from the astronauts and from laboratory animals onboard
Spacesuit wastewater
Heating and cooling systems
Cabin air - moisture exhaled by astronauts and laboratory animals
The space shuttle's fuel cells

Now i wont quote anymore, think i have done enough but just wanted to post the main issues.

There is heaps of information on the space station link above, and explains that everything is possible to sustain life in outer space.

And even though the ISS is just a minature version of the image i have about a World Ship its just the beggining, maybe even a test and experimental version just to see if it could work.

This is my image that i think a World City would look like...



And this could also be a good concept.
Actually the better of the two.

But technology would progress at a rate at which we would be able to reach the 'world ship's' destination before they did.

We have no idea that this would be true. The inhabitants of such a "world ship" would be creating a totally new culture that would most likely be different from anything that humanity has known in the past. Personally I feel that anyone born and raised in such an environment, constantly exposed to the mysteries of the cosmos, would probably be more open-minded and creative than someone who has spent their entire lives earth-bound and trapped in our ridiculous cultures. Also, I imagine that these cosmic communities would be free of the political and economic restraints which hold us back. If anything, I'd think they'd advance more quickly than those of us who stayed behind. Regardless, as Amuk stated, there would be no destination other than the next place to re-fuel and re-supply.

Also, I agree that the idea that artificial gravity would be pointless in the long run. Gravity is restraining if anything and should be considered as an obstacle to be overcome. Since we all need gravity for the moment... maybe treatments can be developed that would prevent this deterioration until the genetic engineering aspects could be perfected. Once that is mastered, all you'd need is a few gene therapy sessions and poof... happily and healthily free from gravity.

Well, this is pretty high up there on the "Wierd Thread" list.

Is it possible, Yes. But Why? Who would want to live in a city that you cant leave from?

Originally posted by Murcielago
Well, this is pretty high up there on the "Wierd Thread" list.

Is it possible, Yes. But Why? Who would want to live in a city that you cant leave from?

I can't believe that you consider this to be a weird thread when there are others that discuss shape-shifting reptiles that want to enslave humanity

The answer to that question is stated in the opening post of this thread. First, the vessel would be massive. How far do you travel in an average day? I imagine the inhabitants of such a ship would travel no less. Anyways, you're in space... where can't you go?

Otherwise, the idea is that it would allow you to be independent of the earth. No natural disasters, no unexpected climate change... just uninterrupted progress and developement. This is also most likely the only way that we're going to get out of this solar system any time soon. Also, as discussed in another thread... maybe one day we'll look at living on a planet the same way that today we look at those who used to live in caves.

Originally posted by Murcielago
Is it possible, Yes. But Why? Who would want to live in a city that you cant leave from?

We are talking about a ship the size of a large city on up to maybe a small moon. Miles wide at the least, a ship holding MILLIONS of people. The would not be any law saying you cant leave and colonize any suitable planets you run across but by then I doubt you would want to. Your people might have left in this ship 3-4 million years ago going back to a planet with its extremes in temperture and wildlife would be looked upon as one would a man that chose to live naked in the jungle today.

It seems like living on a moon would be alot the same as this "Ship". If you live in a "space city ship" you have to remember that your scenery almost never changes, you wont see planets passing buy or a star or what ever, you would be going far to slow to see anything like that, you would wake up look out a window and see nothing but Black emptyness and then go to work, probably doing the same thing everyday, and on days off you get to look out a window. Thats about the extent of fun you will have. While on earth yes, you may do the same job every day, but on weekends you can leave, go on a vacation to a completely looking different place.

What your describing sounds like taking New York and enclose it in a glass dome, and have it bee in space, just endlessly and pointlessly floating around FOREVER. ummmmmm.....No Thanks, doesn't sound very exciting to me.

[edit on 8-11-2004 by Murcielago]

Originally posted by Amuk
We are talking about a ship the size of a large city on up to maybe a small moon. Miles wide at the least, a ship holding MILLIONS of people.

At some point, the size of a "space city" becomes a liability as a consequence of several practical limitations.

A dynamic collection of smaller ships -- but not small themselves by any measure -- capable of moving and reorganizing readily over time would seem to be a more robust option.

For the romantics who think of space as liberating, don't forget that for a space traveler, the universe is no larger than the inside of a spaceship. If you never landed, that's all it would ever be.

Also, culture follows us wherever we go, and yes, it is always ridiculous. Spacebound cultures will be no less ridiculous than what we have now.

Originally posted by Majic
Also, culture follows us wherever we go, and yes, it is always ridiculous. Spacebound cultures will be no less ridiculous than what we have now.

Well, of course the concept of how ridiculous one culture is in comparison to another is subjective. You caught me expressing my distaste for most modern cultures. I suppose that when thinking of the future I fantasize about a community that's free of economics and politics as we understand them. Somehow I feel that such a world may very well be unattainable on Earth. There's simply too much room for greed driven competition, but I suppose that is an opinion as well.