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Just Answer One Question. "Why"?

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posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I do not share your beliefs. But this does not stop me from supporting you in your search for happiness. Such is the fruit of true spirituality - just because you are not following the same road as me, does not mean you are lost.
edit on 8-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 



Although I believe Paul was a Universalist who assumed everyone ascended to heaven after the physical body passes.

Christ = The Spirit of Love = The Love of Man = The love within a man = Heaven the dwelling place for God = God is within man and so is his son.

The Spirit of Love is alive in all who believe in and pursue love. If you believe in love the Christ is within.
This is what Paul believed, this is Paul's religion. This is also my religion. If you are interested this should clear up any supposed contradictions.


That is not Paul's message. Here's Paul's message...

Ephesians 2:5-9

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The faith Paul is talking about is FAITH IN CHRIST is that which leads to all things. He's saying that having faith in Christ is a gift in itself given to us by God.


edit on 8-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


I disagree with this. I am my own salvation. No one can save me but myself. I determine my fate, and I help craft the lives around me. I have the power and the ability to use it. I know this.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Or neither are lying. God is truly the creator of Satan, thus he is the author of all that is good and evil. And since even Evil was created by God, if you believe in Jesus God is righteousness. Meaning everything that we see, good and evil, was created for the purpose of love, even if we were not given the ability to completely understand.

Creation itself is not against love. Only man can choose to go against love, and that is by design so even free will was created for the purpose of love.

Has sin become utterly sinful so now we can let go of that which causes sin? Ourselves?



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 



Books that I have read that have predictions are hit and miss, much like the bible. Unless you count prophesies that came true within the context of the actual texts but that's kind of like cheating. For example, I do not count Jesus being born as proof of any fulfillment because they are two events in the same books. If it were proof, you wouldn't have Jews today.


I don't know what you mean by "hit and miss" prophecies in the Bible. There are still prophecies in it that have yet to be fulfilled and most of them have to do with the Jews. The Jews only believe in the Old Testament, which were the only scriptures available to people at the time that Jesus walked the earth. The New Testament came later and the Jews don't accept it, but they will eventually, according to prophecy in both the Old Testament and New Testament.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 




Has sin become utterly sinful so now we can let go of that which causes sin? Ourselves?


Has sin become so utterly terrible that we can afford to ignore the aspects of ourselves that give rise to such things? Ignoring and condemning that which causes us discomfort gives it no less an influence. It merely leaves us open to our own flaws. Know the flaw, accept it, own it.

This man has every reason to hate himself and whatever can be held responsible for his deformities, but he chooses to appreciate what his condition gives him rather than condemn it for what it does not.



Likewise, my urge to steal or wound or lie comes from a part of myself that I will never be rid of. Instead of hating that part of me, I will make friends with it so that I can understand and control it. That way, I can love myself because of my flaws, knowing that they have made me a better person in understanding both the darkness in myself and the darkness in others. Nothing is perfect, but everything has potential, and my flaws help me understand that.

There's no point in hating myself for being human.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25
 



Although I believe Paul was a Universalist who assumed everyone ascended to heaven after the physical body passes.

Christ = The Spirit of Love = The Love of Man = The love within a man = Heaven the dwelling place for God = God is within man and so is his son.

The Spirit of Love is alive in all who believe in and pursue love. If you believe in love the Christ is within.
This is what Paul believed, this is Paul's religion. This is also my religion. If you are interested this should clear up any supposed contradictions.


That is not Paul's message. Here's Paul's message...

Ephesians 2:5-9
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly place in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved ]through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The faith Paul is talking about is FAITH IN CHRIST is that which leads to all things. He's saying that having faith in Christ is a gift in itself given to us by God.



Ephesians 2 - Sean AKA SacGamer25

You were dead in your transgressions and sinful addictions when you followed the way of those who are worldly. You followed the Spirit of Disobedience to love. All of us lived as sinners at one time; we sought after money, greed, sexuality. We exercise our free will to do as we please dishonoring God's love to love one another, thus by our own nature we became deserving of God's wrath. But because of God's mercy we were made alive by the Spirit of Love within, Christ Jesus. It is because of God's unconditional love, Grace that you were saved. The father has raised us up with Christ and seated us next to him in Heaven, which is within you.

You have been filled by the Spirit of Love and have entered into a relationship with The Spirit of Love, Christ Jesus by God's Grace. It is because of God's unconditional love and your faith in unconditional love that you have received the Spirit of Love. Unconditional love, Grace was given to you as a give so that no one can boast. For we are God's handiwork created in the Spirit of Love to do good works, which God has prepared in advance for us to do.

Therefore remember that you who were previously not a part of Christ, Separate from the Spirit of Love, excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven within. Remember how those from the religious groups condemned you, during the time when you were separate from the Spirit of Love, without hope, without God's love? But now you have been brought close to the love of God, because of Christ physical sacrifice, bleeding to death on a cross, and resurrection, the message Grace, which is God's unconditional love and forgiveness has come to you.

For the Spirit of Love is our peace, who has made the two groups one and destroyed the religious barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, By setting aside the religious law and teaching us love over religion. His purpose was to create through the Spirit of Love one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace for all mankind. And through one body to reconcile both the Israelite and the Gentile through the cross, by which he was put to death because of religious hostility. He came to preach peace to you who are far away and to those of you who are near. For through the Spirit of Love, everyone has access to the father, by one Spirit.

Consequently, none of you should be considered foreigners or strangers, but we should all see ourselves as fellow citizens and members of God's household. A household built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with the Spirit of Love himself as the chief cornerstone. In Love, Christ, the whole building is joined together and rises to become a Holy Temple to the lord. Through the spirit of love you are being built to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. (When you become one with the Spirit of Love, you become one with the Father who will reside in you)

Luke 12:10 Anyone who speaks against Christ will be forgiven and may still find Grace, the Spirit of Love & Forgiveness. However, anyone who doesn't believe in love or the Spirit of Love will not find God's love, thus he will not receive forgiveness.

This is about believing in the Spirit of Love. According to scripture which you hold to be accurate it is possible to not believe in Christ, but to still be saved by the Spirit of Love. When a man is filled by the Spirit of Love, you should see only good fruit. If the message is love and the fruit is good, the Spirit of Love has been found.

Christ = The Spirit of Love
This is not about religion, it is about pursuing and listening to the Spirit of Love within you.
edit on 8-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 



However, anyone who doesn't believe in love or the Spirit of Love will not find God's love, thus he will not receive forgiveness.


Its Nice that you paraphrased this passage, but it doesn't say that... at least use it appropriately

Forgive and you will be forgiven... The passage you're quoting from luke has to do with blasphemy of the spirit...

Not people that don't believe in love...


edit on 8-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


It is two sides of the same coin. You became aware of self to overcome self.
I gave up myself to something greater, so I too have overcome self.

Either way the goal is to embrace love, and overcome that which is against love. According to scripture that which causes man to sin, flesh, will pass away and be given life by God so that we may still live in the flesh but not according to it.

We can and should overcome all sin, either by believing in the power of self given to you by God or the power of Christ who was also a gift from the Father.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 



It is two sides of the same coin. You became aware of self to overcome self.
I gave up myself to something greater, so I too have overcome self.


I give up my apple for cantaloupe. That's what you're talking about. I'm talking about cutting up the apple and tossing it into a fruit salad. Or making apple juice out of it. Or making apple pie. Or making apple sauce. You get the point. The point is I retain my essential nature. I don't give myself up, I account for the worst to plan the best.


We can and should overcome all sin, either by believing in the power of self given to you by God or the power of Christ who was also a gift from the Father.


I don't know how I came to be, other than drunken sex and a broken condom. And it really doesn't matter. Birth does not dictate fate. The power of self is simply a realization that almost no matter what situation you are in, you have control over yourself. You are your own master, and no one else can take responsibility for you in the end.
edit on 8-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 



However, anyone who doesn't believe in love or the Spirit of Love will not find God's love, thus he will not receive forgiveness.


Its Nice that you paraphrased this passage, but it doesn't say that... at least use it appropriately

Forgive and you will be forgiven... The passage you're quoting from luke has to do with blasphemy of the spirit...

Not people that don't believe in love...


edit on 8-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


What is the Spirit? What is God? What was Christ saying about the spirit?

I have clearly given you an interpretation that leads to love and not Idol Worship.

I am asking you to believe the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Love.

I could probably post over 100 lines of scripture that relate the Holy Spirit directly to, (1) Grace which is God's unconditional love, (2)Forgiveness which is found through God's unconditional love, (3) Peace which is found in love, (4)Wisdom, which is the wisdom of love, (5)Truth, all truth originates from love, (6) Heaven, which can only be found when one obeys love.

So why is it such a stretch to believe that Paul believed exactly what I am saying? Especially when I just handed you the translation that only requires you to believe that Paul believed Christ was the Spirit of Love. Did not Jesus come to Paul in Spirit, so by Paul's own testimony on how he learned the truth, is it that impossible to believe that he believed that Christ was the Holy Spirit, AKA the Spirit of Love? And to also take God as the father of such spirit. And then to accept that all things were made by, for, and through the Spirit of Love?



2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
John 14:15-17 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the "Spirit of Love" is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

1 Corinthians 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the "Spirit of Love", interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

Ephesians 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised "Spirit of Love"

Romans 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the "Spirit of Love" you may abound in hope.

Romans 5:5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the "Spirit of Love" who has been given to us.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.


You may never believe what I say, but this interpretation is sound, and is not against Christ.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by sacgamer25
 



It is two sides of the same coin. You became aware of self to overcome self.
I gave up myself to something greater, so I too have overcome self.


I give up my apple for cantaloupe. That's what you're talking about. I'm talking about cutting up the apple and tossing it into a fruit salad. Or making apple juice out of it. Or making apple pie. Or making apple sauce. You get the point. I don't give myself up, I account for the worst to plan the best.


We can and should overcome all sin, either by believing in the power of self given to you by God or the power of Christ who was also a gift from the Father.


I don't know how I came to be, other than drunken sex and a broken condom. And it really doesn't matter. Birth does not dictate fate. The power of self is simply a realization that almost no matter what situation you are in, you have control over yourself. You are your own master, and no one else can take responsibility for you in the end.
edit on 8-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


I agree completely. It is up for us to choose our path. Many people read the bible and choose a much different path than I have. But we are the masters of our decisions like you said. We have no one to blame but ourselves. And although some may give credit to supernatural for our victories we still are the ones who decided to have faith and pursuse such faith.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I didn't say I don't believe you... you just used the passage in the wrong context...

its not that I don't want to believe you... I just don't trust who you're quoting...

And I have no reason to trust him...

Honestly when talking to me... you might as well quote Mickey Mouse if you're going to quote Paul




posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I've got news for you, sacgamer, there are spirits not affiliated with Christ that are showing people love and bringing a different message than you. In fact, there is someone in the gray area right now claiming that "love" and "light" taught them that a new Christ is coming and that scriptures need to be rewritten. That's why I'm not fond of people saying that "love is all you really need" because they're preaching the same thing you are with an entirely different God in mind.


edit on 8-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I've got news for you, sacgamer, there are spirits not affiliated with Christ that are showing people love and bringing a different message than you. In fact, there is someone in the gray area right now claiming that "love" and "light" taught them that a new Christ is coming and that scriptures need to be rewritten. That's why I'm not fond of people saying that "love is all you really need" because they're preaching the same thing you are with an entirely different God in mind.


edit on 8-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)


How can anyone who is teaching everyone to love one another be against Christ?

Mark 9:40 for whoever is not against us is for us.

Sure it is possible for some to tell you they love you and this and that is love, and they could be lying. But what am I saying that is against Christ?

How is replacing the name of Christ, with the Spirit of Love, blasphemous. How is believing that Christ is the "Spirit of Love" within you against Christ?



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



I've got news for you, sacgamer, there are spirits not affiliated with Christ that are showing people love and bringing a different message than you. In fact, there is someone in the gray area right now claiming that "love" and "light" taught them that a new Christ is coming and that scriptures need to be rewritten. That's why I'm not fond of people saying that "love is all you really need" because they're preaching the same thing you are with an entirely different God in mind.


Lemme get this straight. Someone claims that they received a message from the essence the comprises your "God" and his "Holy Spirit", but because you don't agree with the contents of that message, you're dismissing it as heresy?



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 





How can anyone who is teaching everyone to love one another be against Christ?


I don't know, you tell me, but it's happening. Did it occur to you that Satan could use this very tactic to confuse people? Remember, even Satan's capable of disguising himself as an angel of light. He doesn't do that with hate. He does it in the name of love, even if it isn't real. Did it not also occur to you that as long as "love" points away from the need for searching out a savior, that it keeps Jesus' name out of the spotlight? This would be exactly the kind of thing demons would use to distract people from searching for God. The message that as long as we all love each other it's alright, so there's no need to bother looking for a savior.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





Lemme get this straight. Someone claims that they received a message from the essence the comprises your "God" and his "Holy Spirit", but because you don't agree with the contents of that message, you're dismissing it as heresy?


That's just it. None of these people ever mention the "Holy Spirit", which is the one left to us by Jesus.

However, I'm hearing more and more people using Jesus' name to point away from the very message that Jesus taught. So, yes, I'm dismissing it as heresy.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25
 



However, anyone who doesn't believe in love or the Spirit of Love will not find God's love, thus he will not receive forgiveness.


Its Nice that you paraphrased this passage, but it doesn't say that... at least use it appropriately

Forgive and you will be forgiven... The passage you're quoting from luke has to do with blasphemy of the spirit...

Not people that don't believe in love...


edit on 8-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Blasphemy of the spirit has to do with forgiveness. Since blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin.

When one deliberately sins against love, after being filled by "The Spirit of Love", what forgiveness is left?


Hebrews 6:4-6 4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.

2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.


Understand that these verses are talking about the mental state of the man, not about hell and salvation.

If a man is truly "born again", or enlightened his passion should be to love. If I have experienced the love of the father and become enlightened by his love I am at one with him. If after becoming one with God's love I choose to deliberately go against the "The Spirit of Love" that is within who can I go to for forgiveness. This does not mean that the enlightened wont err out of stupidity but they won't deliberately sin against love. Since to sin against "The spirit of Love" within is to directly sin against self.

You will not forgive yourself for deliberate sin against yourself, when you had the foreknowledge not to. You will be worse off than before you had such knowledge.

I changed the words believe in to obey. Although I think if you say you believe in Christ than you must obey him, otherwise you don't truly believe him. But I stand by the way I interpret this passage. For anyone that truly needed to understand deeper message would find that level of depth in Hebrews and 2 Peter. Luke is part of the 4 gospels so the message is both on the surface and between the lines. In this way none are without excuse.

Luke 12:10 Anyone who speaks against Christ will be forgiven and may still find Grace, the Spirit of Love & Forgiveness. However, anyone who doesn't obey the Spirit of Love will not find God's love, he will not receive forgiveness.



posted on Jun, 8 2013 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Deetermined
 



I've got news for you, sacgamer, there are spirits not affiliated with Christ that are showing people love and bringing a different message than you. In fact, there is someone in the gray area right now claiming that "love" and "light" taught them that a new Christ is coming and that scriptures need to be rewritten. That's why I'm not fond of people saying that "love is all you really need" because they're preaching the same thing you are with an entirely different God in mind.


Lemme get this straight. Someone claims that they received a message from the essence the comprises your "God" and his "Holy Spirit", but because you don't agree with the contents of that message, you're dismissing it as heresy?


That is what I am trying to say. What makes it interesting is the bible suggest we should hear precisely that. The bible suggest that we are all taught by the same spirit and that we should share our testimony with others.
Then when Christians share their testimony and don’t agree, Paul says we should let love be the guide and not separate us because of our religion.

Apparently there have been at least 40,000 men who have decided their way is the right way, all based of the same book. But yet I am still challenged as if I must be wrong, simply because my religion is not like theirs.
If a man's religion causes him to love and causes others no harm why not embrace it. Jesus himself said if they are not against us they are for us, even if their religion is slightly different.

This does not mean you have to convert to my way of thinking but you should at least be able to appreciate the beauty of anyone's religion who has found the love within.



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